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Hello Advice board!
My next PFS character is going to be a magus. I'm looking at being a very strong melee combatant, with less emphasis on spellcasting and more on fighting. The PFS tables I play at are SWAMPED with spellcasters - last night a table had four sorcerers and a witch - so I'm not worried about being a main caster. Duelist with some magic tricks is what I'd like.
I'd also like to be an extremely strong defensive character - hard to hit, decent health, good saves. When I need to, I'll nova to burst down a foe.
My proposed build:
Master of Many Styles Monk 2/Kensai (Bladebound?) Magus 10
Elf
STR 10
DEX 20 (16+2 racial, +2 level)
CON 12 (13-2 racial, +1 level)
INT 16 (14+2 racial)
WIS 14
CHA 8
Take two levels of MoMS monk, then go 10 into Magus
Feats:
1) Weapon Finesse
MoMSM 1) Crane Style
MoMSM 2) Crane Wing
3) Dervish Dance
Kensai 1) Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
5)Lunge
7)Intensify Spell
Kensai 5)
9)Improved Familiar
11)?
Magus Arcana
3: Bladebound?
6: Familiar
9: ?
build highlights: Dex for attack and damage. Dex, Int, and Wis to armor class, plus fighting defensively, plus shield and mage armor for massive AC. Crane wing to negate one incoming hit per round. Evasion to help with AoE. Good saves. Wand-using familiar. Decent out of combat skills due to high int.
I'm on the fence about Bladebound. If I go that route, I'll spend all the money that I'd be spending on buckler, armor, and sword on pearls of power and other good loot.
Is this a workable build? How would you improve it?
Thanks in advance.
Lunge requires BAB +6.
Are you set on Kensai? I'd be loathe to hurt casting and spell recall. Bladebound is decent if you had no plans for taking extra arcana till level 7+ anyway. Otherwise, note that losing that first arcana puts on hold your ability to take the extra arcana feat till 7th level. Also, it means no Familiar. Familiar is mostly good for Use Magic Device for extra combat actions, specifically with the improved familiars list. If you weren't planning on doing that, no major loss.
If I were to improve the build, I'd put off on Crane until later and start as a Magus, only dipping MoMS Monk or Unarmed Fighter for a single level once Crane Wing could be gained (if MoMS that means taking dodge feat and crane style; if unarmed fighter that means having dodge and BAB +5). The extra feat hurts as does not having crane wing right away, but IMO loss of CL will hurt more.
Consider using Kirin style to make use of your extra style slot. Make knowledge check as a swift action against 15+CR to gain +2 to saves and +2 AC against AoO from that opponent. Kirin strike then lets you add twice your int as damage for a swift action.
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Lunge requires BAB +6.
Are you set on Kensai? I'd be loathe to hurt casting and spell recall. Bladebound is decent if you had no plans for taking extra arcana till level 7+ anyway. Otherwise, note that losing that first arcana puts on hold your ability to take the extra arcana feat till 7th level. Also, it means no Familiar. Familiar is mostly good for Use Magic Device for extra combat actions, specifically with the improved familiars list. If you weren't planning on doing that, no major loss.
If I were to improve the build, I'd put off on Crane until later and start as a Magus, only dipping MoMS Monk or Unarmed Fighter for a single level once Crane Wing could be gained (if MoMS that means taking dodge feat and crane style; if unarmed fighter that means having dodge and BAB +5). The extra feat hurts as does not having crane wing right away, but IMO loss of CL will hurt more.
Good catch on the lunge and familiar. I also see what you're saying about the level dip. I was considering just a one-level dip, and taking dodge. The extra +1 to AC is good with my theme, and the CL of magus is good too. Second level of monk does get me +1 BAB and Evasion, as well as a bonus feat. In your opinion, how does this stack up? The build will be sucktastic until level 3 anyway, due to Dervish Dance. I was planning on saving GM credits to start him at 3.
Interesting stuff, going to have to look some of it up when I get home. In the process of making new character for my game and this looks like a fun build.
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Consider using Kirin style to make use of your extra style slot. Make knowledge check as a swift action against 15+CR to gain +2 to saves and +2 AC against AoO from that opponent. Kirin strike then lets you add twice your int as damage for a swift action.
I did consider that. It would synergize well with my int score, but the Kirin style itself is underwhelming, and I'm not sure I want to commit to two style feats to get Kirin strike.
I did take a look at panther style; I'm not sure it's better than a non-style feat for a feat starved magus.
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You know..I have a Bladebound Kensai Magus right now, and I'm enjoying the heck out of him. Not a spellcasting heavy guy, not really a great front liner (pot of mage armor fixes that, scroll of shield or the spell itself), not really a heavy damage dealer on his own. What he is good at is shutting some of the enemies down. Either they take penalties to do a full attack (tripped) or they lose all but 1 attack (move action to stand)
My build is this: 10, 18, 14, 16, 9, 7
Human (needed the feat) Bladebound Kensai
Kensai gives 2 bonus feats right off the bat...sort of.
Human: Combat Expertise
1st: Weapon Finesse
Bonus: Weapon Focus: Scorpion Whip
After Ultimate Combat, the scorpion whip is no longer a one handed weapon, which means it is not a legal choice for a black blade. Unless you can use the AA version of the weapon, of course.
Start with 14 Con and 15 Dex and increase dex 3 times. Saves you some PB-points.
Good catch on the lunge and familiar. I also see what you're saying about the level dip. I was considering just a one-level dip, and taking dodge. The extra +1 to AC is good with my theme, and the CL of magus is good too. Second level of monk does get me +1 BAB and Evasion, as well as a bonus feat. In your opinion, how does this stack up? The build will be sucktastic until level 3 anyway, due to Dervish Dance. I was planning on saving GM credits to start him at 3.Lunge requires BAB +6.
Are you set on Kensai? I'd be loathe to hurt casting and spell recall. Bladebound is decent if you had no plans for taking extra arcana till level 7+ anyway. Otherwise, note that losing that first arcana puts on hold your ability to take the extra arcana feat till 7th level. Also, it means no Familiar. Familiar is mostly good for Use Magic Device for extra combat actions, specifically with the improved familiars list. If you weren't planning on doing that, no major loss.
If I were to improve the build, I'd put off on Crane until later and start as a Magus, only dipping MoMS Monk or Unarmed Fighter for a single level once Crane Wing could be gained (if MoMS that means taking dodge feat and crane style; if unarmed fighter that means having dodge and BAB +5). The extra feat hurts as does not having crane wing right away, but IMO loss of CL will hurt more.
With Str 10, Weapon Finesse is basically essential to start with, and I imagine the game would be severely more difficult for you if you also lacked Dervish Dance. So if you were to do only one monk level, that removes one of your feats gained and requires a new feat you didn't have listed already (dodge) plus actually paying for crane style. So you'd clearly not be able to dip monk and get crane wings until ~level 5+ if you were to only go in for one level. I do think long run the extra CL is worth the wait on crane wings and loss of evasion and Monk 2 bonus feat...
If you were to do only 1 in Monk, I guess you build would have to look like this:
Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Dodge
5 Crane Style
5 Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk 1]
5 Crane Wings [Monk 1]
6 Dervish Dance [Magus 5]
7 Intensify Spell
9 Lunge
11 Improved Familiar? Extra Arcana?
12 Crane Riposte? Other style feat? [Magus 11]
Build: Magus 4 / Sohei Master of Many Styles Monk 1 / Magus +X
I suggest Sohei because w/ only one monk level and a likely middling wisdom, you stunning fist won't be so hot, better to get Devoted Guardian. Magus could either be Bladebound or normal. Could also make it Kensai, but I don't like that archetype. Obviously no crane wing till 5th level nor Dervish Dance till 6th is extremely painful. Long run you end up stronger for it, but it definitely would hurt levels 3-5. If you did human you could make things a lot easier on yourself, though elf is definitely a better race for a dex magus overall.
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Really? Try reading the book again-listed as a light weapon in the PRD...might want to check the update and see if your printing is out of date.
After Ultimate Combat, the scorpion whip is no longer a one handed weapon, which means it is not a legal choice for a black blade. Unless you can use the AA version of the weapon, of course.
Hey again, it seems that you've confused "one handed weapons" as a weapon system designation and "one handed weapons" as a measure of how they are handled. These are different. While the scorpion whip is definitely wielded with one hand, it is not a one-handed melee weapon as pertains the weapon charts. It needs to be, in order to be eligible for the black blade treatment.
See here: SRD - Gladiator Weapons Notice how it is in the light section and not the one handed section.
Start with 14 Con and 15 Dex and increase dex 3 times. Saves you some PB-points.That gains me 3 HP and +1 fort at 3rd level at the cost of +1 hit/+1 damage. My 4th level bump goes to CON anyway, breaking even at that point.
eh. Thanks for the input, though.
Ok, first:
You used 21 points pointbuy.
10 (0)
16 (10)
13 (3)
14 (5)
14 (5)
8 (-2)
-> 21
Second:
If you chose to start with 14 con and 15 Dex you will end up with PB20 meaning you saved one point.
After level 4 you have the same stats as in your build but spent one point less, so regarding optimization this is the way to go.
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Start with 14 Con and 15 Dex and increase dex 3 times. Saves you some PB-points.That gains me 3 HP and +1 fort at 3rd level at the cost of +1 hit/+1 damage. My 4th level bump goes to CON anyway, breaking even at that point.
eh. Thanks for the input, though.
Ok, first:
You used 21 points pointbuy.
10 (0)
16 (10)
13 (3)
14 (5)
14 (5)
8 (-2)-> 21
Second:
If you chose to start with 14 con and 15 Dex you will end up with PB20 meaning you saved one point.
After level 4 you have the same stats as in your build but spent one point less, so regarding optimization this is the way to go.
Yeah, I posted in a hurry. CHA should have been 7. I'll be running a different PC if we need a party face :). I just can't rationalize losing that +1 hit/+1 damage/+1 init to gain three hitpoints (trading +1 fort for +1 ref). Looking at the PB totals, I can also bump str to 11 to help that carrying capacity out (not that I'll need much as an unarmored, unshielded, one weapon character).
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With Str 10, Weapon Finesse is basically essential to start with, and I imagine the game would be severely more difficult for you if you also lacked Dervish Dance. So if you were to do only one monk level, that removes one of your feats gained and requires a new feat you didn't have listed already (dodge) plus actually paying for crane style. So you'd clearly not be able to dip monk and get crane wings until ~level 5+ if you were to only go in for one level. I do think long run the extra CL is worth the wait on crane wings and loss of evasion and Monk 2 bonus feat...If you were to do only 1 in Monk, I guess you build would have to look like this:
Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Dodge
5 Crane Style
5 Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk 1]
5 Crane Wings [Monk 1]
6 Dervish Dance [Magus 5]
7 Intensify Spell
9 Lunge
11 Improved Familiar? Extra Arcana?
12 Crane Riposte? Other style feat? [Magus 11]Build: Magus 4 / Sohei Master of Many Styles Monk 1 / Magus +X
I suggest Sohei because w/ only one monk level and a likely middling wisdom, you stunning fist won't be so hot, better to get Devoted Guardian. Magus could either be Bladebound or normal. Could also make it Kensai, but I don't like that archetype. Obviously no crane wing till 5th level nor Dervish Dance till 6th is extremely painful. Long run you end up stronger for it, but it definitely would hurt levels 3-5. If you did human you could make things a lot easier on yourself, though elf is definitely a better race for a dex magus overall.
Waiting on dervish dance/crane wing till 6th/5th level makes me a sad panda. I agree that Weapon Finesse is mandatory. Good call on the Sohei. I'm leaning strongly towards Kensai; one of the strong attractions is the Canny Defense ability. Does a Sohei monk get his wisdom bonus to AC in light armor? If he does, mithril breastplate (proficiency from magus levels) would outshine that.
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Also for 2-level monk dips, I think you can stack Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain, and either Sohei or Monk of the Four winds. Unless I'm overlooking something, MoMS/MotSM/MotFW don't replace any of the same class features. I'd have to choose between Sohei and MotFW.
This would net me Crane Style, Crane Wing, Toughness, and (Elemental Fist/acting in the surprise round), at the cost of a flurry that I wouldn't use anyway (scimitar is not a monk weapon), Evasion, a weaker stunning fist than a real monk, and one level of Magus.
What say you on Sohei vs Monk of The Four Winds? I'm leaning towards MotFW for the ability to power up my unarmed strike to deal 2d6 damage that can partially bypass DR or exploit a vulnerability. It's only 1/day per four character levels, but that could still come in handy. As an elf with a decent wisdom, perception as a class skill, and potentially a familiar to grant alertness, I'm not worried about being surprised too much.
Edit: ooh! ooh! Just noticed that having Elemental Fist as a bonus feat would qualify me to tale Djinni style, which gets me a +2 bonus on electricity damage rolls. Hello shocking grasp synergy! The added 1/2 Mobility feat is just icing on the cake.