can a witch use a HEX while silenced

[blue_the_wolf]

personally I believe it depends on the hex and applied common sense

in other words

evil eye = yes

cackle = no

but the rules may say somewhere otherwise and I want to be sure.

[wraithstrike]

Cackle is not a sonic based effect so it should still work whether you can hear it or not.

[blue_the_wolf]

really.

so are all of the hexes just spell like abilities and not hindered by pesky things like sight, sound etc?

any rule to these or just DM discression

[wraithstrike]

I can't say all of them. I would have to look at them individually.
Lack of sight for the witch might cause problems because you have to be able to see your target to pick your target.

[Generic Villain]

blue_the_wolf wrote:

really.

so are all of the hexes just spell like abilities and not hindered by pesky things like sight, sound etc?

any rule to these or just DM discression

Cackle is a supernatural ability. Supernatural abilities and spell-like abilities don't have verbal components, so rules-as-written, I'd say cackle is unaffected by silence. The silence spell notes that "Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and efects," and though cackle's flavor text mentions actual cackling, it's not language-based or sonic.

Sight is a different matter, however. If you can't see a creature, how can you target it with anything other than an area-of-effect ability like fireball? If your witch is stuck in a zone of supernatural darkness, she can't just announce that she's "using evil eye on what I'm pretty sure is an ogre somewhere on my left side." The same goes for normal, non-supernatural abilities - your blind fighter can swing his sword in a random square and hope he hits someone (after rolling for full concealment, assuming the random square is occupied), but he can't specifically target someone he can't see.

[morethanadream]

blue_the_wolf wrote:

so are all of the hexes just spell like abilities and not hindered by pesky things like sight, sound etc?

They're Supernatural abilities.

[LazarX]

It's going to vary by hex. For one thing not all hexes are hexes. Some are just feat equivalent properties.

[Dragonchess Player]

It depends on the hex. Something like Charm ("A witch can charm an animal or humanoid creature within 30 feet by beckoning and speaking soothing words."), Feral Speech, or Tongues will be affected by silence, even though they are supernatural abilities. Most other hexes will not.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Cackle does not have to be heard to have an effect. Indeed, you can cackle very very lightly at a whisper's volume level, since the rules never require any sort of volume level, just that you take a move action to cackle. A good thing, too. Charm lasts by the round and requires cackling to keep going. How awkward would THAT be if the charmed person could actually hear you?

[Malfus]

Actually, with the scar hex, you most definitely do not have to hear the witch to be affected by a cackle, since that Perception check would be up to a +528 for the DC.

[tivadar27]

I would argue that RAW you don't have to be heard to use cackle, though obviously this would be something that could easily be interpreted differently from GM to GM. However, I would argue that you do need to cackle to cackle. I'd disallow "soft cackle", as I believe that this is not actually cackling. And if the user was affected by something like Lipstitch rather than Silence, I'd rule cackling impossible. I think to me the physical action of cackling audibly enables the supernatural ability, not the actual hearing of that cackle.

[Adamantine Dragon]

By RAW, no, hexes do not have to be heard, so being silenced would not stop them.

If you want to say that "makes no sense" then just be aware you're talking about a world where witches can hex people and make whatever ruling you feel is most realistic.

[StreamOfTheSky]

tivadar27 wrote:

I'd disallow "soft cackle", as I believe that this is not actually cackling.

So how is a witch supposed to use Charm hex and keep it going in a social setting? You think laughing out loudly nonstop will keep you "low key"? Really?

tivadar27 wrote:

I would argue that RAW you don't have to be heard to use cackle... However, I would argue that you do need to cackle to cackle.

And if the user was affected by something like Lipstitch rather than Silence, I'd rule cackling impossible. I think to me the physical action of cackling audibly enables the supernatural ability, not the actual hearing of that cackle.

I agree with this.

[Sekret_One]

I think there needs to be a rule of common sense... for example, something spits a line of acid 60 ft as a supernatural. As a GM, if the players tied up the things mouth, I'd say it can't spit the acid.

It's not going to shoot it out the nose or eyes simply because it's (su).

[wraithstrike]

RAW and RAI sound is not need.

Two abilities with similar names. One is sonic based, and the other is not, which means you don't need to hear the other one.

[Ryu Kaijitsu]

cackle is just the flavor name for focusing for a number of turns to keep the effect up, it could just as well be evil villainous laughter, giggling, an enchanting smile or gaze, or purely concentration silently with closed eyes

this is just as much flavor as the Hex that gives you scent for children, barely useful for anything that isn't NPC, and one of a bunch of stereotypes that made the class

Hexes do not need to be heard, they are basically supernatural curse effects, once evil eye, misfortune, and similar affects someone the witch can even turn with her back (as I recall, won't read up on all hexes now for this) to the victims and still enjoy their suffering as the power will not break. You do not need to hear a curse be spoken, or see it being made, the effect still happens.

A Witch is basically a longtime debuffer that is at its best if its left alone to be able to affect multiple enemies with various effects. Cackle is an annoying must to have if you plan on using powers like Charm, that only works for 1 turn normally. It makes no sense thinking that a witch trying to enchant and persuade a victim would non-stop actually laugh at it, especially as the witch wouldn't even be able to talk to the person and persuade it to do as she wants at the same time. This makes just as little sense as a bard trying to sing and dance to get bonus to stealth and move silently.

"RAW and RAI sound is not need." And so it must be, as the class would get broken otherwise. There are still other methods to handle a witch, but trying to silence it to keep hexes from working is not among them.