Master Summoner + gate as SLA


Rules Questions


Okay, I have a player right now who is playing the Master Summoner archetype, he is planning ahead on what he is going to do. Looking through his class, He gets gate as a spell like ability. Does this negate the 10000 gold piece requirement to summon things?
As he gets it as a spell like ability, he can use Quicken spell like ability, and therefore with each cast by the time he gets it, He can summon and control a pit fiend. Is this intended? in 2 rounds he can have 4 pit fiends at his beck and call?

Is there any way by the rules where I can I guess make him NOT an unstopabble killing machine with an instant win button? Or by DM hand wave am I going to have to reign in his power?

I am not trying to be a jerk about that, but with the ability to call gate almost endlessly, theres really no point for the rest of the party.


To address one of your points, the duration of the calling aspect of Gate is "concentration", so casting more than one Gate spell is counterproductive (barring some oddball feat or class ability that allows you to concentrate as a free action or something).

I'll let other people chime in on the other points.


SLA don't use components so yes the GP requirement is negated.
I am sure he is can not quicken gate as an SLA

There is a chart here.

According to the chart the highest level SLA's that can be quickened are 6th level ones. Gate is a 9th level SLA.


Thanks, That kind of helps, The command is a bit fuzzy though, but I'll deal with that when the time comes. I am running them through kingmaker and they just started #2 so I have a LONG time to find the best way for him to not completely obliterate everything else.


Summon Monster (Sp) wrote:
Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level). At 19th level, this ability can be used as gate or summon monster IX. If used as gate, the summoner must pay any required material components. A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate immediately ends. These summon spells are considered to be part of his spell list for the purposes of spell trigger and spell completion items. In addition, he can expend uses of this ability to fufill the construction requirements of any magic item he creates, so long as he can use this ability to cast the required spell.

Summon Mastery acts as this ability, so that still applies.

And Quicken SLA still doesn't work because of why concerro mentioned.

Just be careful with the M.S., as they're one of the most powerful archetypes in the game.


If the player tries to cheese his way to making the SLA work because of this FAQ, slap him upside the head.

That FAQ applies to (Sp) that aren't based on spells, and this (Sp) is, no matter what kind of semantics he tries to argue.


Gate is only powerful for in combat if the GM doesn't hold the player to the rules for calling spells. Just because you control the creature does not mean that you can make it do anything. The control means that the creature won't kill you immediately upon arrival and will do a small task for you (answer questions. etc). Anything more involved still has to be negotiated in addition to the material components.

To sum it up - Gate has it's own GM control button :)

Straight from GATE in the PRD:
"If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications. Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane."

Thus, the GM has control over what is and is not a longer / more involved service (fighting for you / bodyguard service) and also what that service may cost. In addition, this must be negotiated with the creature at the time of the spell being cast, thus GATE is not a be all end all combat spell. Your likely to be killed before you finish negotiating with the creature.


Cheapy wrote:
Summon Monster (Sp) wrote:
Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level). At 19th level, this ability can be used as gate or summon monster IX. If used as gate, the summoner must pay any required material components. A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate immediately ends. These summon spells are considered to be part of his spell list for the purposes of spell trigger and spell completion items. In addition, he can expend uses of this ability to fufill the construction requirements of any magic item he creates, so long as he can use this ability to cast the required spell.
Summon Mastery acts as this ability, so that still applies.

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.


Specifics override general :)


What specific rule are you referencing? I did not see a rule saying the MS gets an exception,but I may have missed it. I was speed reading.


The bolded bit of my quote, from Summon Monster SLA that they get:

"If used as gate, the summoner must pay any required material components"


That goes for any spell with a pricey material component doesn't it?
Now if the gp was not a material component, but an offering that was separate from the spell, much like the ______ you present to the creature to get it to work outside of what it might normally do then I would agree.

I guess what I am asking is what is the difference between this material component that you think should be paid, and any other material component that is represented by gold pieces.

PS:I would prefer if the MS or anything else with gate as an SLA did not get a freebie.


concerro wrote:

That goes for any spell with a pricey material component doesn't it?

Now if the gp was not a material component, but an offering that was separate from the spell, much like the ______ you present to the creature to get it to work outside of what it might normally do then I would agree.

I guess what I am asking is what is the difference between this material component that you think should be paid, and any other material component that is represented by gold pieces.

PS:I would prefer if the MS or anything else with gate as an SLA did not get a freebie.

The Summoner Summon Monster ability specifically says that if you use it as gate you must pay for any material component. It is the bold sentence in the block of text you quoted five posts ago.


That quote was from the gate spell itself, not from the class.


The Gate spell says:

"Components V, S, M (see text)"

So the stuff in the text counts as the M, which they'd have to pay for if they were Calling.


concerro wrote:
That quote was from the gate spell itself, not from the class.

That quote is from the description of the Summoner's Summon Monster 1 spell like ability


concerro wrote:
That quote was from the gate spell itself, not from the class.

The following quote is from the Summoner class:

"If used as gate, the summoner must pay any required material components."

In any event, even if the RAW isn't 100% clear (which I do think it is...), the intent is pretty clear. Otherwise, why even have that line be in the Summon Monster class ability that summoners get?


I did not see that. I think the RAW is clear. No free gates. :)


Quick, change the posts to wraithstrike!


Cheapy wrote:
Quick, change the posts to wraithstrike!

What are you talking about? ;)


The RAW is pretty clear.

Summoner gets Gate as an SLA but must pay the material components cost (10,000 gp in incense and stuff) even though SLA's in general ignore material components (Specifics of summoner Gate SLA overriding general SLA rules).

Add to that the situational aspects of Gate (negotiations and additional payment plans) and I would not worry about it being too powerful. As written it is no more powerful than any other spell caster with Gate as a memorized / known spell.


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