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So I'm getting closer and closer to running my first Pathfinder game.
I stopped playing 3.X around the time 3.5 popped up, played a slew of other games until 4e, and have been running that since it's launch.
So I'm rusty at a couple of things(or at least feel like it).
I've encouraged my group to do character backgrounds, plus tie-in's to at least 1-2 players. And on top of that I'm asking for a 3x3x3 to incorporate into the game.
The backgrounds are purely optional, the 3x3x3 are not.
I can't for the life of me recall what a fair exp reward is for a character background/writeup.
Anyone have any suggestions on that?
I have one player who's done the background, the 3x3x3, and has written a mock-2 page paper on magical theory. Heck, he just texted me a couple of minutes ago letting me know he's doing a paper on how the magical mind interacts with psionics because he has down time at work.
I want to reward that kind of enthusiasm, but 50-100xp seems week sauce, but 500-1000 seems exuberant.
Now I told my group that I'd reward anyone who did both a background and the 3x3x3 with one of the following:
1) Pre-game Exp
2) a free trait
3) I'd purchase the Inner Sea Primer for them(or if they already had that, a player's companion guide of their choice)
But really, I'd rather reward exp to a creative group and can't find any guidelines on this. And my old brain cannot recall what I used to do for such things.
Help?
Exp reward is great, but the changes to the EXP system means that no matter what, no PC could catch up to another, unless you gave RP rewards.
A free trait related to their background in a good idea, or they could get one of their weapons or armour as masterwork instead of regular.
And there should be a reward limit or rewarding with diminishing returns,
so one who goes ape does not get a level or two worth of free stuff over everyone else.
I don't know what 3x3x3 means though.
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I'm big on the exp award myself...i've never gone over 1k xp though. Now I also award xp for good RPing at the table and staying in character.
The reward though is up to you of course; what you should look at is everyones background as a whole and evaluate from that. But in fairness you should keep in mind that one of your players may be a better 'writer' than the others.
I do backgrounds for all my PC's as well, and it's gotten to the point with my group that they ask to have tied in backgrounds to my PC's. A compliment I take well. ;D
In fact here's one i'm working on now for a Kingmaker game we are starting Saturday (going with an Alchemist).
Alchemy - any magical power or process of transmuting a common substance, usually of little value, into a substance of great value. This statement, er definition, couldn’t be more accurate for Stefan. His father was a practiced alchemist and found great business opportunities amongst the River Kingdoms. It was a life he grew into well. He found it humorous to an extent at how easily the formula’s and crafting came to him. He delighted in how easy it was to make some coin as well. The simplest concoction –one to remove the effects of too much celebration- was a top seller and helped him to earn his first few gold coins.
As he grew in skill so did his clientele and the requests for more potent concoctions. “Never promise an uncertainty.” His father had told him and it was a motto he lived by; well at least in the business sense. He did enjoy the uncertainty in some of his own concoctions and would either try them himself or offer them to those less fortunate or lacking enough brain power to turn down the concoction.
Amongst the River Kingdoms he found that his experiments normally where met with laughter and to his pleasure no sort of penalization against him. In fact he soon found himself selling some of those strange creations for others. Now whether they used them for some form of humor, vengeance, or in some cases murder; he didn’t care. Once the sale was made he was no longer accountable; it was no longer his property.
At the age of twenty he had enough wealth and supplies to set out on his own business venture, something his father was proud of, and something he needed to do. After all when working in another alchemist lab there are certain protocols one must maintain, but when it is your own…
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Bregal's Wonderful Mercantile Caravan - not really a company but still a somewhat established trader’s caravan. Properly named after its master, Bregal, was a renowned merchant known for gather various traders and transporting either them or their goods to the various areas of the River Kingdoms and those nearby it. Stefan had dealings with the man in the past, in fact had purchased some of his wares, and too much of his delight was happy to identify its colored banners on the trail ahead. After all, though skilled at survival, it was always best to travel in groups in these wild lands. He caught up to the group during a noon stop and seemed he wasn't the only one new here. He saw the Half-Orc, strong and bulky, but oddly not well armored for his stereotypical race. Paying the man no heed he waved his hand as he saw the caravan master, "Bregal! 'Tis good to see you this day!"
Bregal smiled, he enjoyed the young alchemists company, well more-so his remedies for the next day. "Come to purchase, trade or just visit? I have new reagents, drinks, trinkets and such." The trader grinned.
"Ah not today," finally close enough he shook hands with Bregal, "In fact I’m in the business to set out on my own. Separate from my father so to speak. Would you have room for another?"
"Of course. Of course." Bregal grinned, "I've got some new drink I wish to test and could use some remedy in the morning I fear. Perhaps our meeting was fate; or a sign from the gods?"
Stefan laughed, "Whatever you need to encourage your drinking old friend." Stefan looked to the incoming half-orc, "It seems you have another on his way. Oddly dressed that one for his kin."
Understanding the necessity of traders, Jarendur still disdains dealing with their ilk. Nonetheless, he is in need of some supplies after an unfortunate accident trying to warm his food using simple arcana. Muttering to himself as he approaches, "Less fire next time..."
Bergal looks at the half-orc stepping into the rest area, produces his finest smile, "Greetings fellow! Did you see our banners and have come for some trade goods?!" The experienced trader moves forward and extends his hand in greeting, "We have much to offer and some of the finest deals this side of the River Kingdoms!"
The man, who was next to Bregal, moves up with him but stays behind. He clearly is a man of wealth - of sorts; his studded leather armor is of master quality as well as most of his clothes. His garb is odd, a cloak (hooded), and pouches seem to decorate his entire wardrobe and are home to numerous vials. Many of the vials are empty, though quite a few contain visible liquids and to an even sharper eye some even seem to bubble. The man himself is well kept, standing just under six foot, a lean man (clearly a far cry from two hundred pounds), his hair dark though just above his left ear is a alabaster white streak adding even more to the oddity of his light green eyes.
Gruff sounding as his voice is, Jarendur attempts to sound more friendly, "I need food...something perhaps less prone to catching on fire. Maybe jerky of some kind?" Thinking for a moment, he reaches into his backpack and pulls out a rather thick, well worn tome and begins to thumb through it. He stops for a moment, reads a few lines, then looks up to Bergal, "Oh, and it looks like I need some bat fur and coal."
Bergal nods, "Food is easy as we set up temporary shop during our breaks." He gestures to the wagons, "When you got as much as I the horses need their rest." He smiles then oddly looks at the half-orc as he pulls the book out and thumbs through it, "Ah reagents! That I can do!" A loud bang is heard then a horse whining, a slight red creases the merchants face and he turns back to the wagons, "Damn it boy! I said LOCK the wagons THEN release the horse! LOCK!" He begins walking back to the wagons then stops, "Names Bergal by the way. Come see the wares or," he grins, "Stefan there can show you around." With that Bergal continues on his path back to the wagons.
Stefan gives Bergal a slight bow then turns to the half-orc and extends his hand, "Stefan is the name friend." He looks at the book as if trying to read its contents, "Reagents are your business then? Perhaps I can be of assistance, what is it exactly you are trying to craft?" The man smiles, clearly a practiced merchant.
"I am called Jarendur." Puzzled by the intrigue, he eyes Stefan seemingly to size him up, "Reagents? You mean this?" He opens his tome up to the previous marker and tilts it so that Stefan can view the text. (The page describes the process for casting Darkness.) "I can't seem to make this work, not sure what I'm doing wrong, but it says you need bat fur and charcoal for some reason. I've never needed anything before, so I thought I'd try it."
Stefan eyes the book, "Strange." He pauses then smiles, "Perhaps you are missing some of the text? I have heard of elixirs known as Darkvision. They allow the imbiber to see into the night as the dwarves do. The formula escapes me at the moment."
"Hmmm, no no, it's all there. I just need those, as you say, reagents...and maybe more practice. Though if you are right, this wouldn't be that helpful. I have no trouble at seeing at night, if anything, I can't stand this damned sunlight. How is it you know about this stuff?"
Stefans' smile grows and he bows slightly sweeping his right arm out wide and his left into his middle, "Why dear sir i'm a creator of such elixirs as to ease the mind, stomach, and soul." He stands up right and his grin almost goes maniacal, "I can make you strong beyond your limits, or make you as small as a mouse." He pauses, "I my friend am an Alchemist!"
"So you make drinks? Isn't that like a barkeep?"
His face almost goes red, then Stefan visible sighs and grins, "Nay my poor slow friend." He draps an arm around the half-orcs shoulders and begins leading him to the wagons, "I craft elixirs both for pleasure and pain." He stops them and takes his arm back, "O and I make a few that will cause your innards to exit you through any means possible." Stefan gives the half-orc a sly wink, "Now shall we see about those reagents you need?"
Amused by this strange strange man, Jarendur humors him, "That last one sounds just about how I felt after eating stew I made from what I thought was good squirrel...turned out I was wrong. Ever since that night, I can't stand the smell of cooked squirrel. I never thought that much stuff could come out of me. Anyways, sorry about that, I got carried away. So yeah, these reagents."
"Squirrel?" Stefan turns up his nose a sign of disgust, "No sir, not here. For many reasons." His right hand raises and begins to count amongst his fingers, "One - squirrels here are rabid, not for eating in the slightest, two - why have squirrel when cooks are about, three - it seems you have a lot that I can teach you." Stefan smiles, "Come let us share this journey." He stops, "Unless you had other plans?"
"Hmm, seems you may be right....no plans. In fact, I have no idea where to go next. I've just been going where my feet take me."
“Well then my friend let your feet rest and let’s see where the caravan is going.” Stefan smiles, “I too am at a point of setting out on my own. Perhaps our paths shall join for a time?”
It's still a work in progress and the player with the Half-Orc and I are going back in forth via email for the dialogue. But they should be an interesting team.
I usually use hero points to con my players into providing additional materials.
Also, some free equiqpment, helpful and friendly npcs as appropriate to backgrounds, etc may work too
I'm partial to traits. Some games my base is 0 traits, and they're all awarded for background info and in-game achievements.
For a wizard, additional spells are a nice perk to hand out for background writing, especially since you mentioned the player wrote about magical theory.
I'm not sure what level you're starting is, but my general guideline for awarding bonus XP is to use the experience point awards table and use the entry for individual XP at a CR of their level.
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Ah sorry.... 3x3x3 is a method in which a player can add some background NPC's into the game. Ones they create, and gives me as a DM more opportunities for RP with said character via these NPC's.
3 Allies
3 Contacts
3 Rivals
With a format like this:
3x3x3
Friends/Allies/Contact/Rival/Enemies:
Name:
Quirk/Personality:
Ties / Background:
Notes:
Here's one from a Dresden game-
Contacts:
Name: Heather Baxley
Quirk/Personality: Huge eyes behind Coke bottle glasses. Reminiscent of an owl.
Ties/Background: Runs Baxley Books. Collectables and curios up front, magick shop and herbalist supply in back. Helps Marty out with all sorts of miscellaneous stuff.
Notes: In the know.
Noting super detailed but enough to get the player involved and allow me to use them as a foil, a source of info, what-not.
I have one player with heavy ties to Magnimar. He was/is a student at the magic academy there and has his family as allies(mom, dad and brother), 2 teachers and a shop keeper as contacts, and for rivals 3 students. 2 are LE and one is a CG gnome.
So in when in Magnimar if he needed help deciphering an ancient script or id'ing an item he was unfamiliar with he could turn to any of his contacts and they may or may help him. They're contacts - neutral, but can help if needed.
So if goes to the contact Larz Cavrindros, a Varisian scholar who he admires to get help with the ancient script he's found. One of his rivals over hears that he has returned to Magnimar and was seeking out the scholar. Now the npc might harass our hero, or stall the contact or even bribe the contact to keep the script so he(the rival) could see it or even steal it.
Just rattling now, sorry.
Basically in a group of 5 players it gives me 45 prebuilt NPC's to use as needed and inject into the story. Plus the players tend to have bigger buy-in's with the game if they're NPC in involved.
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I'm partial to traits. Some games my base is 0 traits, and they're all awarded for background info and in-game achievements.
For a wizard, additional spells are a nice perk to hand out for background writing, especially since you mentioned the player wrote about magical theory.
I'm not sure what level you're starting is, but my general guideline for awarding bonus XP is to use the experience point awards table and use the entry for individual XP at a CR of their level.
First level, and medium advancement.
20 point build, I'm allowing the optional 2 starting traits. To my surprise, no one has really said yes to them. They're not opposed to them, just not snagging them up like I would. :DThe extra spell idea is good. Thanks. I like that. I had even considered items as well, but exp is pretty sweet.
And just a little background on how I run, I award not only session exp for encounters, but role playing as well, and when I remember(or did in the past) to do so I take a secret ballot vote for best player of the session. That can mean, made the game fun for everyone, contributed the most, played their character to the hilt - whatever and that's an additional xp reward as well.
I give out feats for stuff like this, with the caveat that none of the feats gained in such a manner can be prereqs for other background bonus feats gained at the same time.
I like to give out things like hero points for that kind of thing. Either the alternate rules for the APG, or something else. In my current game, I am using 'destiny points' which are fairly rare, and allow you to change any die the party rolls to any value on that die after the fact, or save a character from death. Each player gets 1 to start the campaign, and they only way to get more is via background, charactor portraits, campaign journals etc.
I have done a bit of 3x3x3 with my characters,
as I make data on the family and a few people they know.
Now, I don't use hero points.
In 3.5 I would do an EXP reward.
In Pathfinder I would likely do traits,
a feat that fits character's data(appearance, skills, or Maneuver feats)
or making some of their gear masterwork.
No, don’t do exp. Look, some players are just better at this sort of thing.
But do reward them- give them bonus skill points in some NON-Combat skills they have mentioned in their background, like a rank in Profession- Sailor. Also ideas here are Ks skills that aren’t used for monster ID, Perform for non-bards, and craft for non-combat stuff. And a role-playing trait or two, sure.
I also had never heard of a 3x3x3.
It is very good to have all the PCs linked. One idea here is to tell them that they can come up with their links themselves, but if they don’t, you’ll assign them.
I'm a big fan of giving away traits, or even some of the Skill Bonus feats. For example, I'd give the player you mentioned Magical Aptitude as a bonus for all that work he did (since he spent so much time learning about magic). Or perhaps 1-2 Magic Traits (ignoring the rule about no more than 1/category).
I like the 3x3x3 idea and will definitely think about using it in my future games.
If one player gets a big bonus, it motivates some of the other players to do what they can to get a bonus like that too. It only takes one to get a whole group really involved!
When my group ran Legacy of Fire, we used the Hero Point variant rule from the APG. Anybody who wrote up 300+ of backstory started with an extra Hero Point. The benefit was potent, but it also did not give any one player a huge, lasting advantage.
I would caution against giving a permanent bonus unless other players can later do the same task for the same benefit.
I'm one of those GMs--beloved by some, hated by many--who gives out party XP only, not individual. So giving individual XP for something is not an option for me.
I do like to reward good background writing. In the past, among various campaigns, or things I plan to do in the future, these are the rewards I have or would consider giving:
- Potion of cure or similar useful, but expendable, magic item. Should complement the character's background or abilities in some way. For example, a paladin player got the cure potion from the church he served. But a rogue might get a potion of vanish or something instead.
- Free trait
- Free non-combat feat (something suitable that reflects character background)
- +2 to an ability score of my choice (but one that would be useful to the PC). This is if I am using a lower point buy only.
- In-game rewards like a valuable contact or ally (although your 3x3x3 system would replace that), or a piece of information that helps lead the PC toward their first goal (or a treasure cache or something).
There's also the hero point system, which if you used it, you could award additional hero points to those who wrote good backgrounds.
And just a little background on how I run, I award not only session exp for encounters, but role playing as well, and when I remember(or did in the past) to do so I take a secret ballot vote for best player of the session. That can mean, made the game fun for everyone, contributed the most, played their character to the hilt - whatever and that's an additional xp reward as well.
I... I really like this. A lot.
Consider this stolen.
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While I don't give anything completely tangible, players in my campaign who write up backgrounds can expect to have sidequests related to those backgrounds pop up throughout the campaign. While any players who participate in the sidequest get normal experience and loot as rewards, the PC whom the sidequest relates to gets a percentage more experience as well as loot customized for them.
A sidequest for a wizard might have scrolls and pearls of power as rewards at low levels. Staves and metamagic rods at higher levels.
A sidequest for a rogue might have potions of mage armor or invisibility at low levels, or +Stealth equipment and +Sneak Attack equipment at higher levels.
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And just a little background on how I run, I award not only session exp for encounters, but role playing as well, and when I remember(or did in the past) to do so I take a secret ballot vote for best player of the session. That can mean, made the game fun for everyone, contributed the most, played their character to the hilt - whatever and that's an additional xp reward as well.I... I really like this. A lot.
Consider this stolen.
Thanks. Many moons ago when there was a 2nd edition.... I did it. Initially, it was out in the open... but that tanked... horribly.
So the secret ballot came up, and my players loved it. I've had ties with players, but that's ok by me. It shows me that my players are engaged enough to notice the others at the table and they want to reward them. Some people vote for themselves, what are you gonna? We're human. But for the most part it's a fun ending to a night of gaming. A couple of huzzah's, pats on their backs, and "well done" "good job" go a long way to encourage others to do the same.|
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Ah sorry.... 3x3x3 is a method in which a player can add some background NPC's into the game. Ones they create, and gives me as a DM more opportunities for RP with said character via these NPC's.
3 Allies
3 Contacts
3 RivalsWith a format like this:
3x3x3
Friends/Allies/Contact/Rival/Enemies:
Name:
Quirk/Personality:
Ties / Background:
Notes:Here's one from a Dresden game-
Contacts:
Name: Heather Baxley
Quirk/Personality: Huge eyes behind Coke bottle glasses. Reminiscent of an owl.
Ties/Background: Runs Baxley Books. Collectables and curios up front, magick shop and herbalist supply in back. Helps Marty out with all sorts of miscellaneous stuff.
Notes: In the know.Noting super detailed but enough to get the player involved and allow me to use them as a foil, a source of info, what-not.
I have one player with heavy ties to Magnimar. He was/is a student at the magic academy there and has his family as allies(mom, dad and brother), 2 teachers and a shop keeper as contacts, and for rivals 3 students. 2 are LE and one is a CG gnome.
So in when in Magnimar if he needed help deciphering an ancient script or id'ing an item he was unfamiliar with he could turn to any of his contacts and they may or may help him. They're contacts - neutral, but can help if needed.
So if goes to the contact Larz Cavrindros, a Varisian scholar who he admires to get help with the ancient script he's found. One of his rivals over hears that he has returned to Magnimar and was seeking out the scholar. Now the npc might harass our hero, or stall the contact or even bribe the contact to keep the script so he(the rival) could see it or even steal it.Just rattling now, sorry.
Basically in a group of 5 players it gives me 45 prebuilt NPC's to use as needed and inject into the story. Plus the players tend to have bigger buy-in's with the game if they're NPC in involved.
I like this alot. I always have dozens of characters rolling around in my head. Now when I make a background I can use some of those chacters to help fill it out.
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I like the idea of players giving the GM some basic stuff to get a grip on, but I have never seen any correlation between long backstories and good role playing or good gaming.
I require just some basic character details, your 3x3x3 idea sounds pretty solid. If players want to write extensive back stories, the best way of rewarding them is by having their stories integrated into the campaign as best as I can.
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I like the idea of players giving the GM some basic stuff to get a grip on, but I have never seen any correlation between long backstories and good role playing or good gaming.
I require just some basic character details, your 3x3x3 idea sounds pretty solid. If players want to write extensive back stories, the best way of rewarding them is by having their stories integrated into the campaign as best as I can.
Thanks, Ogre.
But I merely use the tool, I didn't create it. It was something I came across an old 7th Seas messageboard back in the day. I yoinked it and use it as often as I can.
I'm with the non-xp reward crowd on this.
Trait bonuses are a good one, along with extra skill points.
Feat bonuses are a little iffy... spend some time thinking on it, and don't let it be ANY feat: have a list of acceptable bonus feats.
Some equipment additions seem reasonable, though I, personally, would keep it limited to mundane items for a first-level party.
The 3x3x3 seems like a reward in itself.
And just a little background on how I run, I award not only session exp for encounters, but role playing as well, and when I remember(or did in the past) to do so I take a secret ballot vote for best player of the session. That can mean, made the game fun for everyone, contributed the most, played their character to the hilt - whatever and that's an additional xp reward as well.I have better. Everyone levels as a group when we hit the right spot in the adventure. No eps are ever awarded.
Let me explain myself a bit. (Besides the huge bonus of this being super easy in the way of numbers-crunching for all.)
There’s really no good reason to reward good roleplay with awards that make that PC more powerful. After all- how do you reward powerful PC’s that do more vs the enemies? Few GM’s do indiv eps for kills anymore, and rightly so.
Good roleplayers roleplay because they like to , they enjoy it. They also tend to be naturally good at it. Some players will never be good at roleplaying, no matter what rewards you dangle in front of them. In fact some resent such rewards being given out.
But since Rpers enjoy it, why should the rewards lead to more Character POWER? The reward should be things that make RPing more fun- some skills, intangibles (relationships, contacts, etc), and such like. Not more power.
1) You could award them a little token of some kind, useable once for a free 20, or perhaps to allow a reroll.
2) Make the story count. If the PC writes a great background about working with a group of pirates, make a sidequest or weave that into your plotline. If they are a thief working with the black market, put up a wanted poster describing them once in awhil... but also give them a discount at shady dealers.etc etc
3) Special mount or pet might be its own reward. An abnormally intelligent horse, for example, with Int of 6... or a trained messenger falcon.
4) Unique magic items are also pretty cool. It doesn't have to be powerful, just unique. A Ring of Invisibility who's powers can be invoked as a move action at the price of an ability drain or horrifying illusions which basically blind you.
I like to try to keep my PC on the same xp lvl...What I do is award items based on their back stories...i usually don't allow much starting wealth other then base equipment and then give unique magic items based on what they tell me...Another DM I play with also likes to use attribute bonuses limited to +1 based on character story...both of these options give a little flair and give you extra control as a DM...
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I usually use hero points to con my players into providing additional materials.
Also, some free equiqpment, helpful and friendly npcs as appropriate to backgrounds, etc may work too
I agree Hero Point rock for this...
Also a special weapon maybe tied into his background by the DM... something like a legacy Weapon (3.5 book) that gains in power over levels so as not break the game but also something extra special for his efforts.
I tend to encourage the group I run with similar rewards. The EXP reward tends to be a pain. For example, if you reward someone 750 exp at first level prior to the game for X amount of work. That said character is now way behind in the WBL table. ( A table I'm beginning to really hate.) Now, he/she might realize this at some point usually later in the game if this trend continues. Then you have to inflate treasure values to compensate for it.
The bonus Hero Points, traits, rerolls, etc. are the things I like to give out. Plus, as a player the EXP might be nice, but if I failed a save vs a bad spell (like blindness) man that reroll would be nice.
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I would say a free trait that YOU choose based on the background THEY provide to you.
It will give them an opportunity to aim for the trait they really want while you will be keeping the final word on what you allow in your game (no Reactionary trait, for example).
If you are feeling particularly generous, for example if one player went well beyond what you were asking of them, you can even give him or her 2 free traits.