Goblin Squad Member
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If languages are included, they should be trained via real-time skill training.
Of course, but the one jumping to the conclusion of it being spam-trained has a history of hating on PFO, so he may not know how skill training is going to work.
I'd rather see time spent on one of the many missing races, skills, spells, PETS, character balance, pve content, hex control, settlements or any of the multitude of things not yet defined as being ready for release.
It wouldn't take much development time to drop in real-world equivalent languages from an auto-translator similar to Babelfish.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dunno summersnow. the idea of having the 30+ lqnguages that PF has in its universe could be interesting. for exapmple evil spellcasters hiding the work by writing it down in obscure languages like ancient cyclopian or druidish. I did a campaine where an entire generation of elven was lost because some wise¤ø& wrote all the information down in orcish. or a map that was scribbed by a hill giant so all was written in giant. I have played with literisy so many times in campaines that my players soon started maxing out the number of languages a group can learn. ok the wizarg gets draconic elven and ignan i'll take celestial and infernal. so on and so forth. it will be fun to see what people do.
While I agree with this, I still feel the game has a lot of things that I would rate higher in priority then languages.
Unless its something easy to do with little actually development costs in terms of time I'd rather the effort go elsewhere at least until release.
Keep in mind, if I understand the first crowdforging poll we won't have pets or animal companions necessary for several classes to function or real travel and several of the core races, let alone extra fan favorites (tieflings) available for EE and maybe not even for release.
Also, based on what I read from the landgrab none of the stuff needed for Settlements or hex control will be in at the start of Early Enrolement (despite them telling us we had to pay for early enrolement so we could build settlements and establish hex control to build the world during EE)
I want them to spend the time on stuff thats going to make the people that contributed to the kickstarter not feel cheated when the hit there paid beta, sorry Early Enrolement, and tank the game before it ever even gets started.
I don't feel languages, as cool as they might be, are one of those things.
Simple solution would be to make languages one option in a crowdforging poll. Maybe gather together a few lower priority type additions and let us choose which we feel most important.
I like the idea of having different languages, love the thought that language could influence how NPCs deal with players, but don't feel it's a feature that needs to come before say different races, or creating buildings that we can enter etc..
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still think that the only way that would be viable to implement different languages would be creating different chanells where who knows that language will be able to acces and communicate.
So if I know dwarven I have acess to the Dawarven channel and if I write something in that channel only people who have access to this channel will see what I wrote.
Create some different channels may not pose a big technical effort from the DEVs IMO.
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I still think that the only way that would be viable to implement different languages would be creating different chanells where who knows that language will be able to acces and communicate.
So if I know dwarven I have acess to the Dawarven channel and if I write something in that channel only people who have access to this channel will see what I wrote.
Create some different channels may not pose a big technical effort from the DEVs IMO.
The implementation the OP was asking for exactly matches the way languages were implemented in Everquest when it launched back in 99.
If they could do it then.....
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Goblin Squad Member
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Simple solution would be to make languages one option in a crowdforging poll. Maybe gather together a few lower priority type additions and let us choose which we feel most important.
I like the idea of having different languages, love the thought that language could influence how NPCs deal with players, but don't feel it's a feature that needs to come before say different races, or creating buildings that we can enter etc..
Exactly.
One thing we are all missing is some form of a baseline schedule of what absolutely needs to be done and will be done for Early Enrolement, items in parenthesis are my take on what would need to be in, World Graphics(yes), Racial Graphics(yes), Monster Graphics(yes), Spell Animations(3-4 to cover basic types (bolt, cone, aoe, healing, expand later for individual spells), Building Graphics(same graphic for each building, expand later), combat(yes), hex control/settlemet/alliance mechanics/company mechanics(maybe, landrush indicates some of this won't be available at start of EE and will be added in as it progresses) and then what needs to be done for Release and then the "other stuff" which is where crowdforging comes in that we can prioritize.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One suggestion I would have to avoid the "spam-teaching" is require folks to have a "Teaching" skill before they can teach another player. Also to require time spent learning the language (skill) in question. This would require someone to actually decide that they wanted to learn the language or they could just stick with common. I remember playing SWG and looking for someone to teach me the other languages so that I could understand the gobblegook in the chat window. It was interesting and I have fun playing a multi-glot in PnP games.
But I also have to agree with some of the others that this is a feature that shouldn't replace basic game mechanics in order to implement it for release. I want my gnome sorcerer!
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Goblin Squad Member
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The way we avoid spam-teaching is by realizing:
You don't use the skill a hundred times hoping it goes up .1%. You set a skill to train, and you wait for a timer to expire. Sometimes you're given a special task to do which finishes off the skill and gives you the 'badge' that enables a new ability.
Read the dev blog: Your Pathfinder Online Character.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still think that the only way that would be viable to implement different languages would be creating different chanells where who knows that language will be able to acces and communicate.
So if I know dwarven I have acess to the Dawarven channel and if I write something in that channel only people who have access to this channel will see what I wrote.
Create some different channels may not pose a big technical effort from the DEVs IMO.
The implementation the OP was asking for exactly matches the way languages were implemented in Everquest when it launched back in 99.
If they could do it then.....
They can do it now, just the way EQ did it, where a language you didn't speak was random characters , i.e. gibberish. When you had learned the language, you got a % of the message in english, & as your skill rose, you got more and more of it in the clear. At 50% it was kinda possible to read , since the subject matter is kinda limiting, in character.
Why someone who did not speak elvish would see elven script , I cannot fathom. It would be prettier to NOT speak it, since it would have to be english to be read...The BEST thing EQ did was, if you were drunk, you talked gibberish, except to people with a high alcohol tolerance skill.
Drunks understood drunks, and no one else did. I still remember the day I first saw someone speaking drunk in the clear, and realised it was a 'language' , and that most people did not know that, based on the shouts of 'shut up !'
A true 'thieves cant' for those in the know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, I had a little ponder (Tuffon brought this up elsewhere too).
Came to the natural conclusion the best result for languages in game is when a game itself spawns it's own language as part of the game's culture.
For example, EVE has dozens of such of it's own vocabulary: "Podding, Isk'er, Ratting".
I think PFO has already begun this process with "Goblinballs". It's really sunk into the local lingo here on the forums delightfully so for us amateur linguists. A good sign.
So yup, that's my conclusion tbh. Different speakers of languages will likely gravitate towards each other as well (French, Greek etc).
Another idea:
The alternative is that Settlement's themselves have a Language Index, that requires members to skill-train the Official Language as a group-membership investment with some sort of benefit to sharing Official Language vs not for members? So put it at the Settlement level. Over time a Settlment develop's it's own dialect of an official language meaning divergence and differentiation and boon to "inclusiveness" of some suitable measure of some sort but of course fewer of the game's population know the dialect as a skill-trained, hence recruitment adds that burden.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I recall the language thing, it was in a crowd forging role play thread a few months back (think most folks decided player made roads was what they wanted)
The idea behind languages for me was to have a master linguist train in tactics and then have the master linguist train others in the settlement. With the thought being that a raiding and hunting party could receive movement speed buffs, defensive formations buffs, siege engine reload speed buffs etc. people would still use team speak and the like to communicate (as they will probably do anyway), but it would give language a useful application and every settlement and company and group would be able to use it to an advantage if they wanted to.( but would also mean that people feel as though they must do this which may be going against some of GW desires for characters)
The idea was that the linguist would determine the type of buffs and the people in those groups that had trained under the linguist would receive a buff of that type depending on how effective the overall linguistic skill of the group/ formation/ settlement was.
Groups/settlements that used the language would know how to work cohesively while those that used just common languages would not. In game I was thinking your settlement corruption levels would be lower as spies and thieves and others would immediately stand out if they weren’t a part of your settlement and had to rely on a common tongue until someone was able to teach them your language system.
I also thought it was a good way to deter settlement hoping because learning one settlement language would be hard enough, if you up and moved you would have to start over and learn a whole new system..
I think i like the ideas you mention.
but rather that spamming general chat or any chat with weird words you can have a private chat for that that only people that know the language can see and type.
we can add some languges that you can learn from an npc like Dwarf or elf language but later on a player could create his own secret language and teach him to another player.that way we can have some kind of secret societies running in the game that are in the shadows and have their own agenda.
trading information and spies can use that language channels and add a doubt about who is a real friend or enemy even if you belong to the same settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm awakening this thread because it is worth it !
Plus admit that forcing our Elves speak common would really hurt their fragile vocal chords :)
Seriously I'm sure that implementing languages WoW-style would be not complicated and would add a lot to the immersion for players. There is not only Elvish or Dwarfish tongues anyway, Magicians and Cleric could also use exotic tongues like Draconic, Celestial, Abysal etc.