Gremlin, Pugwampi

Tuffon's page

Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 122 posts (127 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.


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Goblin Squad Member

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There are no missions the game will make for you .. Those will have to come from what you and your friends want to accomplish.

There are PvE escalations you can take on and build up recipes and expendables and coin.- each escalation you face will be different types of opponents, bandits, goblins, ogres, duergar , elves, skeletons, wolves, humans, elementals etc..

One of you guys should make a company.. and have everyone join it. ( eventually you can attach that company to a settlement)

Get more than 6 players into that company( can use alts to fill the needed spaces), Each account has 3 character slots.. so 6 players in a company with 2 people isn’t that hard to do as it is 2 accounts.


As you and your friends play and do things in game, craft, kill mobs, etc.. your company gains influence.

The more people you add the higher your influence cap will be ( There are diminishing returns on that.. so after 30-40 characters consider making a second company.. just to have more influence to spend later)

Influence can be used to take over hexes with outpost and holdings. These generate bulk resources you can sell or stock up until the day comes you want to try to take over a settlement.( bulk resources are needed to keep your settlement running)

Influence is also the PvP currency right now.. you can use it to feud other companies , so you can fight them without reputation hits.

Crafting and gathering are also activities you can do.. since all gear is player made. You have to come up with a way to keep yourself in gear. Do enough PvE and escalations to acquire enough coin to buy the gear you need. Or have a few folks focus on crafting and gathering things you will use.

Think of characters as roles, you aren't limited to just one class, you spend xp on the skills you want and can mix and match to your hearts content.

The game is xp over time so one character can learn everything, it would just takes years of xp to have everything mastered on one character.. but in a few months you could be a decently paired cleric and fighter type character or something like that..

Each account only allows 1 character to learn xp at a time, even though you can make 3 on your account.

Currently it is PC only, a new company is hopefully taking over development at the end of July.. so who knows what plans they have for future play options and support. ( no official word who it is so we call them NewCorp right now)

Goblin Squad Member

Gambit wrote:

I have two MMO's on my radar, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen and Camelot Unchained, one PVE focused game, one PVP focused game, both designed solely for their intended niche without trying to be everything-to-everyone lowest-common-denominator games. Hopefully they both see release (Camelot definitely will, Pantheon is more of a toss up, although its the game I want more).

(Man, I wish I could get back the $185 I gave to the PFO Kickstarter)

If you still have the account you can probably get it back by selling it ( see top thread in these forums for listing.. i estimate it would take 1-2 days to sell, the DT perk on a new account would garner enough interest in the account to get most if not all that back)

Goblin Squad Member

@ Brother Zeal
Can give you a basic run down of what I think led to where we are right now..

The game launched 1 January 2015 - .

Help notes were not in the game- no explanation of how keywords worked , nor any in game resource people could read to see how character progression worked.. how xp was accumulated .. what achievements meant.. what the /w and other / commands were etc ..
Those things could be found in out of game resources but no wher ein the game or at least easily ..

Basically the game went live with a ton of annoying items that ended up being hard is fun but confusing is not worth the time..

Some examples of early issues that probably impacted many of the kick starters/ trial buddy accounts from giving the game a good go..

1. For months there was a blue screen bug- if you used a charge ability it would drop you to a blue screen with your UI intact.. Only way out was to quit the game .. and then you couldn’t get back into the game. They couldn’t nail down the issue.. finally the work around was to run a server side script every hour.. then every 15 minutes .. but that was 2 months or more in the making - ( finally they changed the script to run on a account level for a single character when you loged in.. should have been the first solution imo)

2. First few months - you had no choice were on the map you started . so you and your buddy start the game to play to together.. but you end up in orassin crossing and he is in kindleburn.. have fun with that 45 min run to hook up with your buddy.. - fixed by starting all characters in thorn keep.

3. The sprints that were 3 weeks turned to 4 then to 6 then to 8 .. so when problems were introduced - it was 4-5 weeks before it was fixed and that only gets worse with a smaller staff

4. Stuck in rocks – that was an issue up until 2 months ago with the introduction of /stuck!!

5. For a while 3 weeks or so last march I don’t think we could take coins out of banks..

6. The Auction houses always seem to have some sort of bug associated with them- buy orders took 8-9 months to get in the game, and even now there are still issues with how that works

7. The game hates full screen mode.. not sure why but think that is still a thing ..

I could go on and on about things that came up those first 7-8 months.. The point is last January the game went live, but all the small issues added up to just an annoying experience , so many that tried the game just walked away.. GW spent March of last year through August working on PvP engines to the game as their main focus.. in hindsight they should of stuck to 3-4 week sprints, and fixed the player experience before putting that stuff in..

You guys that say PvP was what you didn’t like about PFO, .. not sure what to tell you, PvP is/was almost non existent - the EoX vs the SE stuff was easy to avoid .. banditry never materialized(folks actually miss it because it adds excitement to the activity) . The only T2 player hunting T1 guys in the starter area was pretty much relegated to a T1 character himself in less than 24 hours.. The greifing you guys talk about never happened..

What kept people from playing? It was the player experience of actually sitting and playing was not the focus of the development, everything was settlement level mechanics , and out of the 33 or so settlements probably 20 people were affected by the changes that took up most the dev time. ( I get those things need to be in the game.. but it should of not been the primary focus for so long).

Goblin Squad Member

Depending on how long you have been gone ..

this was the end of year announcement ( Dec 29 2015) and last official statement regarding the game.

"Hello Pathfinder Online Players!

The year 2015 has been an exciting but tumultuous time for us at Goblinworks. The team delivered 11 expansions to the game including holdings and outposts and the warfare associated with them; the ability to craft and build your own settlements; new monsters and escalations such as the elementals, duergar and dark elves; new spells, armor, weapons, feats and classes such as the Expert and Freeholder, and much more! But as many of you are aware, we never found all the funding we needed to finish building the game that we have been describing to you. This led us to laying off the majority of the Goblinworks staff at the end of August.

But there is good news to be relayed! Just today, I received a signed letter of intent from a company that wants to take on the Pathfinder Online legacy and see it through to completion. One of the principals of this company has been playing Pathfinder Online since day 1 and understands the vision for the game we are making. The company recently came up to Seattle to the Goblinworks offices and we had 2 productive and exciting days planning for the future and what this game can be.

Now this acquisition of the Pathfinder Online game is incumbent upon them finalizing the funding they are currently in negotiations for, but all signs are very positive on that front right now. This funding will give Pathfinder Online more money to invest in the game than has been spent in over 4 years of development. This will significantly accelerate the development and support of the game to a point unprecedented in Pathfinder Online history. If things continue to go well, they expect to take over the game entirely by March 1, 2016.

In the meantime, the legacy team has been working for the month of December on doing a bunch of polish and bug fixing in the game. The biggest new thing will be the long-awaited and desired vault sorting of personal, company, and settlements vaults. The vaults will use an interface very similar to that used in the Auction House right now. Also, auctions will last for a month instead of a week.

Another much needed feature will be a command for you to use if you become stuck somewhere in the game. By typing /stuck, you will enter a countdown timer for five minutes. During that time, you cannot move nor engage or be engaged in combat. If any of those things happen, the /stuck command expires. If you can manage to not move or be part of combat, after five minutes, you will be teleported to the nearest shrine and none of your items will take durability loss.

Mike has also enabled cloaks and packs in the game, so you will now be able to equip them and have them show up on your characters.

There are more fixes that will be revealed when EE11.1 goes live. The goal is to do testing when the team is back after New Years and if all goes well, launch it in January.

In closing, I thank you all for your support for Pathfinder Online and your friendship in the game. I thank you for an exciting 2015 and look forward to seeing the game expand to its full potential in 2016. Thank you once again!

-Lisa Stevens
Acting CEO
Goblinworks Inc."

Goblin Squad Member

Can move to 2 on the list.

Just sticking with my 3 and rolling with those.

Goblin Squad Member

Tuffon found these on a dead lich with arcana 10-
Exquisite ring – jewelry 20
Truesilver Chainmail – armor smith 17
Masters Antiplauge – alchemy 15

Goblin Squad Member

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Traditional early access, alpha model sounds a bit different. Those free to play offerings attract a different type of player. Mainly they are interested in figuring out how to manipulate the game systems to get through this aspect of the game faster. What builds work what builds don’t. All the systems are already built and the traditional testers are testing what they want to be able to do in game.

PFO is a bit different in those regards because we aren’t testing the game systems as much as designing those systems. Which leads to folks raging that we are doing their job for them and we shouldn’t have to pay for it etc ..

My take on this is, that traditional model you like has produced 0 games I have enjoyed for more than a week in the last 5 + years. They spend millions on a game, embed some things in it that make the system unplayable and by the time it gets to me, there is no hope to change those systems to make them better.

So I am gladly spending money on helping design a game that I can play all the time. The developers are listening to our input and designing the systems based on that input. I Have been playing for 5 months now and enjoying it as opposed to buying a finished game. Playing that game for a week and moving on to the next title that I hope will be different or better … but hasn’t been in the last five years and probably wont be in the next five years.

What’s that definition of insanity... the one about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.. that is how i feel about the traditional model at this point and am happy to be trying something new.

Goblin Squad Member

Many if not most of the people hang out on the goblin works forums now.

There is a place for introductions, crowd forging , trades, and settlements etc .... anyway welcome, hopefully see you around in game here or over there.

Goblin Squad Member

/em hides from Asha , as he may have been one of the folks that blasted her ...

Pretty sure it confused the defenders of the tower we ran towards as well .. but not a tactic i will repeat.

Goblin Squad Member

Gaskon wrote:
Steelwing wrote:
Killing non combatants is a hugely viable tactic.

Sure. I didn't say it wasn't viable. I said it was aggressive, and that engaging in it makes previously neutral parties tend to dislike you.

And apparently, it ends up leading to broken agreements, the largest military power in the game attacking you, and the loss of all your towers. So maybe it's actually not viable. And maybe that's a good thing.

Really need to go back and read the things i wrote for timeline.

Phaeros is saying placing a holding and farming an escalation (which they did 2 times in the last few weeks) is grounds for taking towers away.

When we respond after a conversation about how we are going to respond with TEO they follow that up with taking all of our towers..

It is at this point where we are now told to live in the SE and kill anything that moves.

Not sure what a third party needs to see other than it is okay for them to come out of their territory and place holdings where they wish and farm what they wish, but the moment you try to do the same thing as they are doing they are going to take every tower they can from you to punish you for it.

Goblin Squad Member

Going to say this just as my opinion.. as I am not in a leadership role on any level and at this point I should probably just let it go and let the folks that are respond .. but your logic seems super flawed.
Here s is a brief history of the last 4 weeks …

About 4 weeks ago or so we had an agreement with the EBA to no longer do pvp with them.

They come out with a map claiming 20% of the map with a neat red line and say don’t come here without permission.. etc ..

For the following weeks we clear escalations not in the little red line area, even get a couple T2 ones to spawn .. EBA decides no one should have them but them and comes to the hexes 3 south of KB and 5 NE of KB and kills them outright ( and put their little holdings down so they can bank the stuff they are getting while they are there…)
So our response to those actions , if you aren’t going to kill your own T2 escalations we will kill them ourselves ( but were told do not get involved in pvp while there..)

Your response to someone farming your escalations( with your vastly superior numbers …) is to take a tower .. instead of running us off?

You guys do pretty much the same thing when come outside your area and kill off the other T2 escalations and bring your little holdings along with you to hold your loot till you kill it off..

Goblin Squad Member

Gaskon wrote:


Would you be willing to make an agreement like "Golgotha doesn't kill gatherers in exchange for Brighthaven doesn't take all our towers"?

Is that what you tried before?

Because from my Northern perspective, it seems like the breakdown point for all these agreements is that Golgotha won't stop killing gatherers.

Would a functional war of towers be a fair exchange for a moratorium on killing outside of tower hex PVP windows?

Where did you get the idea that this is from killing gatherers? becuase we have not been able to go down there for pvp operations since the agreement like 3-4 weeks ago.

This started last week when Phaeros decided to take a tower from KB. as to their reasons for taking one of KB towers .. i have yet to hear one.

Goblin Squad Member

sigh double post

Goblin Squad Member

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So last week some folks from Phaeros take a KB tower ( not sure why perhaps they can shed some on that ..).

Night after that (Thursday?)they defended it so it remained with them.

The following night (Friday) it was taken back.

Saturday am excursion led to battle Phaeros near Phaeros with instructions given to not attack other settlements down there as our beef was with Phaeros only. We were told EBA/TEO was not going to be involved as long as our fight was with Phaeros only.

Saturday Night, Golgotha takes 2 towers from Phareos.

Instead of coming to defend those towers Phareos organizes an attack to take 4 towers right after they lost 2. It was at this point folks from EBA started helping as they were part of the organized response team to take 4 towers as well as some folks up north taking one near marchmont(alderwag or something got invovled who asked them to do this i wonder ..) ..

Sunday you guys decide to take all towers from us…

Sunday afternoon open season is declared on anyone that is in the SE….

just my view of the last couple days ..

Thought the Mythic version of Weapon Finesse grants dex to damage when using that feat.
Is this thread requesting a non mythic feat of Improved Weapon Finesse be used to do the same thing as a mythic feat?

Goblin Squad Member

i get what the OP is saying... An example from this past week of folks asking for eve features... map of doom thread..

Can we have heat maps like eve so we can see tower wars and PvP deaths... folks like the idea and discuss.. The last post says that person doesn’t think its a good idea as it kills a scouts role..
People didn’t want to discuss a scout compared to a heat map and the thread dies..

Just an example from the past week, ..

Goblin Squad Member

Tork , I didn’t read it that way at all, you said it was droppable. At that point my brain says it is uncontrolled, and uncontrolled = pvp window. Was under the impression the uncontrolled state was = to the pvp window and when that control is dropped the pvp window was open( not that the pvp window is tied to the timer to be controlled again in the future..)

So I guess the only follow up is, is this window that the tower remains in its flux state going to be hours or minutes?( if the timer is minutes then my question remains.. the same)

Goblin Squad Member

Tork Shaw wrote:
TEO Pino wrote:
If a company controls a tower, can they 'release' it, and make it uncontrolled ( with all the fun that entails ) until it is claimed anew ?
Yupyup. They can indeed. There is a 'cooldown' on when a released tower becomes eligible for recapture.

What is to keep the company controlling the tower from releasing control of it, which makes the hex a rep free kill zone, then taking control of it again as soon as the cool down is finished?

Seems like the pvp rep free kill zone (which in my mind is the most disturbing part about these towers) can basically be kept up indefinitely as long as the company wants simply by cycling control of the tower as often as they want.

Goblin Squad Member

They better include major upkeep of coin or something if they give people free npc guards for all these areas..

Goblin Squad Member

I don’t like the idea of NPC guards at all (not for towers anyway).

Sounds like single companies will control the towers, and those guards would only be loyal to that company… so if I was an ally with a company ( or just a traveler..) how would those npc guards s know not to attack me?

Not sure if the system has anyway to set allies or not so how would friendly companies come to your aid if you required it?

Goblin Squad Member

Assign a knight/Leader to the tower, take out the leader and get control of the tower/keep.

This gives an assassin a valid target at the start of EE, it also makes bringing a bunch of alts into the area more of a hassle than a boon.

If the force holding the tower cant protect one guy they shouldn’t be able to keep the tower, also a nice starting point for those that wish to mainly manage settlements. The knight/ leader now has a place to start with some minor skills to be assigned ( perhaps even required skills to learn in order to manage actual settlement buildings).

Not sure why the number of players in an area should dictate the outcome, of an encounter, how does planting a flag somewhere give a player control of the area? Seems as though you should have to destroy the opposition or at the very least damage them in some way… taking out their leader would be a good place to start..

At least this way they are also able to build up the roles they want people to grow into as EE grows and eventually becomes OE..

All that being said, I still have reservations about the whole tower format but those thoughts really belong in another thread… but as it semi relates to my thoughts above …..If the argument is that PvP folks are going to enjoy this more than preying on people in the wilderness then forcing them to actually battle while taking the towers is essential.. in my mind anyway

Goblin Squad Member

Duffy wrote:


Last I heard XP gain is limited to one character at a time unless you have Destinies Twin which probably won't exist at the start of EE. So spamming alts everywhere won't really accomplish much.

It will if the number of bodies in the tower determine if you are in control of a tower... and if you are then the area is a reputation free for murder zone..

Goblin Squad Member

So pvp windows are opened when a settlement wants..., already I have been reading about groups saying they have enough folks to be on for an entire day. No limit to the number of characters a person can make means they can park as many bots into these towers as they want at all hours of the day.

Most groups interested in these towers probably will do just that(because they will have some good rewards for having it open and can take em back in force if they lose them, or just grab unoccupied ones..)

Not sure how settlement warfare will work in EE, wasn’t aware there would be any.. so why not just leave them open all the time, you might lose a tower but how can they lose the settlement..

Entire thing seems like a way to kill the rep system, and not even worry about a feud system..

Goblin Squad Member

You have to basically follow the anaconda snake path to get from one end of the map to the other to ensure you don’t enter a reputation free kill zone…

PvP has always been a bit of a concern for me(and a few others id imagine), I heard enough reassurances from folks here that the rep system and other things were being introduced to curtail toxic behaviors.. Now a month or so before EE you guys decide 30% of the map should be a free for all PvP reputation free murder fest? What gives…

Goblin Squad Member


Resource Gathering Center..
or acquisition center..

PoI ( for me anyway will always be Plane of Innovation.. miss that zone some times.)

Goblin Squad Member

I tried earlier this week to ask this question in a thread that was more in line to the question. Having waited a few days I figure I would now ask this question here because the reason I keep asking relates to having a system set up and ready to go once EE officially opens..

My systems needs a video card or perhaps 2, I don’t know what I should get at this time( because no requirements are going to be stated). What was stated at one point is there would be a pit fighting battle zone/ arena. Now I get such a zone would not actually be the game but it would allow me at least an educated guess as to what video card/ cards I should order.

I have been awaiting a reply from GW on the other thread, to a very simple question…
Is the pit fighter / battle arena still being planned? Is it still something that is going to happen prior to EE? Or has it been scrapped because everyone is working on Alpha and EE roll outs and if it does come about it will not be until after EE ?

My reason for continuing to ask this question is because without a sense of what I need to run this game(through requirements..) That zone would tell me a lot about what to expect once EE goes live. Knowing what to expect beforehand allows me time to get the hardware I feel I would need prior to EE, instead of logging into to EE and then finding it will take yet another week to actually play because I have to order hardware …

I can always just guess and order a card or 2 but I prefer to make educated decision when spending money to upgrade my system…..

Goblin Squad Member

I can understand your remark about going into the 3rd week of EE and asking questions about things like this, but we are not at that point yet…

My opinion is EE is still about 10 weeks if not more away. This was something I was looking forward to trying . All I want to know is that is this something that will be active over the summer or has it been scrapped.
GW doesn’t want to release system requirements, fine I was at least expecting this simulator to get a feel for how my system will run the game prior to getting to EE then finding out I need to upgrade it .

This should be a fairly straight forward question.. either yes we will put it out or no we don’t want to put resources because those resources are busy getting EE ready to roll and getting Alpha up and running.

So while I get that you may not be interested the response I still am…

Goblin Squad Member

I know folks are gearing up for Alpha, but am curious if the pit-fighter/ battle arena will be up during the alpha testing, or if its just not worth the trouble at this point in time..

Goblin Squad Member

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Request for and the land rush guild list…

Looking through all the approved guilds and having each with a weblink is great but can you change the links so they open in a new tab or page when clicked..

I know I can do it on my own but would be easier to compare all the guilds and options while looking at everything, ( while at the same time keeping your site open and usable.. )

Figured I’d add this to the list of non important request for you guys to consider…

Goblin Squad Member

It feels as though some folks are not happy with the system because they were hoping for a mechanic that would allow them to mend their reputation faster than normal time allows. It was already stated that rep gain has moved away from being actions in game and has shifted to something you gain overtime.

Think a few post ago, Bludd was wondering how people would react to him putting bounties on people and then their friends having to take rep hits to defend them…. The answer is ill take a rep hit for defending a friend, you can take a rep hit for attacking at will . We will gain rep at the same rate.

Why should they create a system for low rep players to gain rep faster?

Soap box a moment.. Bludd, you have your opinions on things, you also have stated you plan to play within the rules GW lays out… That being said, I know folks were asked to not use certain terms to describe other players. You instead decided it was a description of a play style and continue to use it because it is not attacking a person….

Given the only thing I can go on is behavior, why should I believe you guys when you say you plan on following GW rules in game, when you won’t even follow GW suggestions on these boards..

Will leave it at, I just wanted you to know it really bugs me and makes me wonder how you will actually react to GW decisions that happen in game..

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So if I am in a group with someone that is feuding with another character. I dont think I would actually see that character as hostile. If a fight breaks out I guess I would see the hostile flag then but just looking at it from first contact I wouldn't think my group status lets all flags from all the other members transfer to me.

Just thinking of a situation where you could S&D a character involed in faction or feud hostile states. Not everyone in a group has to have the same fueds or factions. Which I think is why the S&D mechanism is going to sit on top of the feud and faction flags..

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I understand the desire to want to respond to your friends getting attacked….

But just because you are friends with them doesn’t mean you should get a free pass for protecting them. Your friends using the SAD system are trying to interact with others without out rep hits, but they are not interacting with them in a mutual beneficial way, they are in essence robbing them. The S&D mechanic is allowing them to rob them in a way they may not loose rep for doing it.

They are your friends and you can do what you want to protect them but don’t ask for a free pass. The event they are attempting is meant to rob people and just because you are friends with them doesn’t mean you should be able to jump in on their side without taking a rep loss. You are basically standing up on the side of the conflict that says Yes I like it when people get robbed.. beyond the point that your friends are doing the robbing why should you not take a rep hit for this action?

I do agree anyone in the blind that initiates a SAD should have the status handed down to the rest of the group( but I also feel there should be a range on this because 30 people hidden 200’ away behind a hill should not gain the same benefits as the 12 or so folks all hanging around the blind).

Blinds to me indicate small areas, an area that lets 50 people into the event is not a blind , it is a fort.

Goblin Squad Member

Is it poasible to examine a player without S&D ? If I understand this correctly the robber gets a look at your stuff can pick any keywords and get an advantage attacking you...

Goblin Squad Member

If server load is the quandry. Give short duration and just treat them as summoned monsters.

With no player able to have more than one summoned creature.

Goblin Squad Member

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TT control is not only about crowd control. It is more battle field control
Haste your allies Slow your enemies. Use wall spells (fire, force, ice, wind) to protect your group and force the bad guys to where you want them.

Once you can funnel them you can hit with ae spells or have your allies burn them down. Not sure if pfo will have wall of force and the others but control doesnt have to mean stun lock.

Goblin Squad Member

Honestly bards to this day still baffle me. TT bards get a fair amount of skills. Their offensive spells are enchantment and charm effects. The one thing they do super well is sing/preform and can provide almost any type of buff a situation needs.

Sorcerers get very limited spells but they also get some pretty good bloodline abilities. Destined draconic elemental abysal etc. Basically the bloodlines give boost to certain aspects.

Clerics do well as they actually wear decent armor. Mant low level spells are buff type but not many offensive options. The domains can help parties with certain abilities ie protection can influence ac.

Fot the most versatile option imo is still wizard. Armor stinks hp are usually lower but they can buff and attack and arent as limited as sorcerers in spells known.

Goblin Squad Member

TT Control/Buff wizard is quite a powerful ally. Best example is blaster wizard loves fire ball and at 5th level does 5d6 damage. The conltro/buff wizard uses haste and grants all his allies an extra attack for 5 rounds.

On the surface the 5d6 looks impressive, but compared to 4allies getting extra attacks for 5 rounds. The total dps contributed by the control/buff wizard dwarfs the blaster..

Edit spelling. Typing on my phone is hard to do.

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For those who wanted/needed a quick breakdown of AoE ability TT clerics get in Pathfinder...

In TT Pathfinder Clerics get an AoE ability called Channel Positive energy (they also can choose negative energy..). Positive energy heals players and harms undead. (negative energy will harm players and heal undead..)edit* they don't do both at the same time, the character chooses if they are going to heal players with positive or harm undead with positive. during the pathfinder TT beta play test it actually did both at the same time but was changed to only doing the players choice when beta play test was concluded * edit done..

There is a feat in TT that allows a cleric to remove targets from the effects of the AoE called Selective Channel. This feat allows you to remove a number of players from the effect = to your charisma modifier.

I think it is a mistake to think all Clerics are going to be your typical MMO healer type, you are going to get some that focus on inflicting wounds and channeling negative energy..Just still have yet to hear how GW plans on implementing negative energy clerics.

edit* additional notes on channel energy- paladins get a healing ability called lay on hands, but i think at 4th level they can convert to uses of their lay on hands healing into the channel a cleric does.

for those interested in the power curve of the amount of healing this ability in TT heals 1d6 for every 2 levels. So 1 d6 at level 3. This scale also is the scale rogues use to determine sneak attack damage.

Goblin Squad Member

Tuffon wrote:

okay got some rest..

The more I think about how to exchange items from a SAD, the more I like the idea that caravans and characters have high difficulty items they can hide on their person.

This stand and deliver, or stop and Frisk, is not a Stop and instant body cavity search. I still get the sense that these encounters should last no more than a couple minutes, searching the entire contents of a wagon could take 10 minutes itself. Doing that for 4 wagons would mean 40 minutes.

I really like the idea that groups can hide items in wagons and on their person that are hard to find with searches. Players and Caravan masters can pick out what those items are and place them in the inventory slots they want, basically they are hiding the best stuff they have making it hard to discover in a quick search of things.

If you set these values beforehand either manually or by the default order of how were placed in inventories/wagons. Then in order to make a quick streamlined search of items you can use a wagon masters hiding skill (or characters Int,Wis or Dex score) versus a bandits search skill to determine what items are found.

Think of the SAD as having 2 skill trees, the first is the ability to demand a % of goods. The second tree is the ability to find high valued items quickly.

Think of the inventory as a numbered list with the high valued items on top of the list and the low valued items on the bottom of the list.

When the SAD is initiated, a random skill roll versus merchants/ characters hiding skill can be completed to form a list of items that the bandit found, those items can appear in the window and the character/merchant can barter with the bandit if the bandit found too much good stuff or if he missed the real stuff. edit**

The skill roll determines at what inventory value the bandit starts listing items, his % SAD skill will determine how large the list is (compared to the total % of...

Think my idea earlier today was thinking along the same lines of making only certain % of items show up on a SAD interface, edited some of the thread in this post, but a lot of what you guys are saying looks to be like what i posted this morning..

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okay got some rest..

The more I think about how to exchange items from a SAD, the more I like the idea that caravans and characters have high difficulty items they can hide on their person.

This stand and deliver, or stop and Frisk, is not a Stop and instant body cavity search. I still get the sense that these encounters should last no more than a couple minutes, searching the entire contents of a wagon could take 10 minutes itself. Doing that for 4 wagons would mean 40 minutes.

I really like the idea that groups can hide items in wagons and on their person that are hard to find with searches. Players and Caravan masters can pick out what those items are and place them in the inventory slots they want, basically they are hiding the best stuff they have making it hard to discover in a quick search of things.

If you set these values beforehand either manually or by the default order of how were placed in inventories/wagons. Then in order to make a quick streamlined search of items you can use a wagon masters hiding skill (or characters Int,Wis or Dex score) versus a bandits search skill to determine what items are found.

Think of the SAD as having 2 skill trees, the first is the ability to demand a % of goods. The second tree is the ability to find high valued items quickly.

Think of the inventory as a numbered list with the high valued items on top of the list and the low valued items on the bottom of the list.

When the SAD is initiated, a random skill roll versus merchants/ characters hiding skill can be completed to form a list of items that the bandit found, those items can appear in the window and the character/merchant can at that time if the bandit found too much stuff or if he missed the real stuff you are transporting. If SAD is accepted, the bandit can take all that stuff, some of that stuff, or none of it.

The skill roll determines at what inventory value the bandit starts listing items, his % SAD skill will determine how large the list is (compared to the total % of the inventory/wagons).

I just like to think that if I had a super valuable item in my inventory, or in the wagon I would of taken the time to hide it as best I could Just using the standard death loot % list may be easy but I don’t like the complete random feel of what is found, id like to think that I had a choice in making my best stuff hard to find. A very skilled SAD searcher with a really good roll could find that stuff, but the bandit that is on his 2nd raid of their lives probably is not going to hit the jackpot when he goes through my stuff.

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Haven’t given this one much thought, and its late .. but it is an idea..

Give the caravan master the ability to load stuff in a way that it aligns with % chance to be discovered prior to the caravan moving.

Think of it as hiding the T2 ore under the barley and Hops. Or under the layer of wooden planks. Or in the middle of stacks of T1 ore. The point is the caravan master can set up items in a designated order and give all the contents a percentage value 1-100. Usually higher value = better concealed.

Come up with a mechanic that will compare the skill of the SAD bandit with the skill of the caravan master ,

to determine the items the bandit finds during a couple min looking through the wagons. Give the bandits check against the caravan master to determine a starting spot 1-100.

Take that number as the start point in the caravan inventory. Add the percentage the bandit skill is able to request or was agreed upon to that starting point.

You now have a quick way to work out the items the SAD grants but bandits woudlnt like it if they always found barley and hops and no good ore.. but then again how long would it take to search 5 wagons for everything they contain.. if your are out in the open and robbing someone?

Anyway just a thought..
Players would have to delegate bags and slots as a % for when the skill is not used on caravans.. so may not work but was worth mentioning..

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Will back away from the cliff..again.. but still contend coins as a tangible objects are a good thing../em heads off to sulk.

And to clear up my views ...I never want a % of coin a person has in the bank to be lootable on death(very big no to alt banks).

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Yes understanding coin is not material is easy to understand, how that thought fits into the game is something I am having a hard time understanding.

Turning coin into items that could be damaged or taken or lost, seems to me like a good thing. Each time a standard unit that the player base chooses loses a decay point, that item just lost % of its value. This removes coin from the game, which is also a good thing..

Goblin Squad Member

Think we have differing visions of the SAD at this point. Been a while since I laid out my views on it. The quick version is

1. make SAD a skill and give it tiers, make it chaotic and make the player using it be chaotic.

2. let the bandit decide if he wants to bully the merchant/character or if he wants to extort them..

3. Bully is just a quick look through and asking for small item/ coin, Extort is inspection of your stuff and deciding what % of it he wants to take.

4. bully SAD accepted = criminal flag for short duration but not much loot, think like I looked through your pockets and im taking this.

4a. Extortion accepted = no hostile/criminal flag and the bandits becoming defacto guards for the merchant for 10 min or till the merchant is safe or time runs out. Items agreed upon initially are transferred after the 10 min ( I still believe you cant have hostilities between someone you just made an agreement with, use the bounty system if you want revenge later)

5. If the SAD either bully or extortion is rebuked, both parties get new attacker flags on one another, if the bandit decides to attack during that time, they become hostile and take rep hits. Same goes for the merchant if they decide to attack the bandit (because the bandit hasn’t actually taken anything from the merchant at this point)

6. As for what a bandit is able to request I think that max should be tied to the skill , personally 50% cargo/ inventory should be the max that anyone can request.( Threading rules apply) but I have no idea how they are going to make that happen besides just listing the items and letting the bandit and merchant hammer out what is fair.

In no way do I think worn items should actually appear on any interface, that just lets the bandits know how to attack the other characters and win more effectively..

I still think the skill level should determine the number of items the bandit is able to pick. I also favor items being the thing they have to take ( as opposed to coin) I feel bandits should take the same risk as the merchant takes transporting things back to their hideouts. But given the time it would take to make the deal and pick items and agree to the arraignment…. Im not sure how that is going to work and folks will probably move toward coin as the transaction currency just for the ease/quickness of it.... (unless coin had tangible value.. /em bites his tongue)

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I dont think Marshals should be using a SAD mechanic at all, not sure where i lost you on that one, sorry.

I just think SAD should be chaotic, a Character needs to be chatoic to slot it.I brought up the Marshal thing as ah opposite of SAD, as a lawful example.

Meaning groups participating with characters using SAD need to take Chatoic hits. Conversely characters that would be in a Marshal Group when he uses his abilities would be taking lawful hits.( when/if Marshal becomes a reality)

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It should be chaotic skill, probably along the lines of a paladin smite evil ability, paladins have to be lawful to slot it. I would imagine bandits would have to be chaotic to slot SAD ( assuming it is a skill)

When speaking of single characters it is easy, but as a group, SAD should still be chaotic, and if a lawful character is involved they should take a chaotic hit for using it. (not that the marshal thing is a reality yet, but I imagine characters would have to lawful to slot that and chaotic people in a marshal group would take lawful hits when using the marshal mechanic to fight criminals..)

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Really thought I was done with this as I know its not going to happen …But the “it will confuse new players reason” is just getting under my skin.

It is odd to a new player to not lose his coins but loses everything else when he dies except for some items he can wear… should take about one death to figure out coins are valuable and need to be protected if they are carried on his person and looted.

As to how they choose to protect them that would be a meaningful choice… universal NPC bank, PC banks, item conversions. The knowledge it needs to be done will be something the new player understands, how they do it is a choice.. perhaps its something a new player relsihes and finds a better way to do it.

With magic coins that don’t disappear all a new player will learn is to turn these goods into coin ASAP .

How long till we read in chat, “found ore gathering node selling looting rights for 500 gp you transport .. send tell for info…”

Is this the correct version of the game new players are suppose to understand? Seems to me it breaks one of the prime goals of adventuring which was to go out in the world and bring stuff back.

Goblin Squad Member

I still dont get the new player wont understand coins If he has to carry them.New player comes in gets killed and loses the coins he has on him. The ones in the bank are still there. What part are they going to not undetstand ?

Seems to me they will be more confused why 25percent of his stuff is destryed. 75percent was looted except for some items that he had on. Yet all of his coins were safe. Carrying coinsis too much for a new player but all of that stuff should be crystal clear?

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Guess it could mean that you are open game for anyone around you till your attacker flag wears off in 30 seconds,

after that 30 seconds if they continue to attack you they then become the aggressors..

sorry to get side tracked on this thread... but flagging came up and figured to understand this correctly before offering anymore thoughts on the issue..

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Tuffon wrote:
If you are attacked only 1 time and in response you hit that person you gain an attacker flag(if the original attacker has still only hit you one time).

I don't think so. Anyone can hit someone who has the Attacker flag without getting flagged themselves.

The rest sounds right, I think.

Just curious why this would be the case, I always thought of it as the friendly fire rule. I set off a fireball and catch a few folks i didn't intend. They now can attack me and if they kill me with in 30 seconds they have no penalty....

if it is as you say why would 30 seconds matter at all?

I read it as, as long as i don't attack them again in that 30 seconds i don't get a hostile flag, they have 30 seconds to take me out or they get hostile flags ( if they hit me 2 times)..

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