I get the impression that the Reapers and the Catalyst don't have the faith required to make such a blind leap that the cycle can be broken, whilst of course Shepard does (bolstered by his experiences with the geth and quarians).
I just find the whole reasoning for the reaper cycle to be flawed and illogical. If that had been the point, and the ending had build (or had the option to build) on that, it could have been quite good. I still get the sense that I'm being forced to accept the reasoning behind the reaper cycles in the first place.
But, even if didn't manage to make peace between the Geth and the Quarians (it can't be done with a 'fresh' ME3 game, you need some ME2 shenannigans, so I suppose that's a fair 'default stance'), we know that it has happened before. As Javik explains, the Protehan experienced the same sort of 'synthetic rebellion' in their cycle, but thoroughly squashed it. There has been a lot of cycles. And lets not forget that the Geth have never actually been interested in 'destroying all organic life'.
I suspect the only cycle that actually had a problem with Synthetics was the first one, that created the Catalyst. Since that cycle did end with their creations killing everyone. :)
I could accept that the 'point' of the reapers was simply that the Catalyst is an AI designed to 'fix' a problem its creators perceived. Which might have been relevant in their time, but since then it has just become senseless mayhem while the AI just tries to continue its' core purpose endlessly.
But that's obviously not how you're supposed to read it. I'm still not sure what you're supposed to take away from that last conversation.
In ME 1, Sovereign claimed that organics could not understand Reaper thinking. Given their age and compositions of alien species, I am willing to accept a Reaper AI thinking in ways that don't make full sense to us. As a matter of fact, I would feel a bit let down if they just turned out to be human intellects in alien skins...
In ME 1, Sovereign claimed that organics could not understand Reaper thinking. Given their age and compositions of alien species, I am willing to accept a Reaper AI thinking in ways that don't make full sense to us. As a matter of fact, I would feel a bit let down if they just turned out to be human intellects in alien skins...
That's a bit of a writer cop-out though. "You couldn't possibly understand what I'm thinking, and I use this to justify an incoherent story."
If that was the aim, I don't think they managed to convey that feeling in a (for me) believable way. The AI's explanation at the end was perfectly understandable. It was just based on really flawed reasoning, that the rest of the game had already gone out of it's way to establish was wrong (the entire point of EDI is to hammer home how organics and synthetics can coexist).
I wish they went with the original story, something about dark energy . Why don't the reapers kill the synthetics who prove to be genocidal. I've no idea how can the relays cause mass alteration of the genetic structure of all living beings in the galaxy, seems a bit unbelievable even for that kind of story.
I was more pissed off cause there wasn't a final fight, just very annoying crawling. Crysis 2 had a similar mistake.
And still after the extended cut your choices throughout the games don't make much of a difference. Why are they putting Shepard's plaque on the wall after he survives the destroy ending? Had they went with the indoctrination it would have been brilliant.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I still feel cheated. I have not played then ending yet and I have not downloaded the EC. Because I am angry. And because I am sad.
I understand that ME is supposed to be about sacrifice.
BUT! it is also about HOPE, forcrissake! Shepard flipping DIED in ME2 and came back. So she has to die AGAIN because an old machine thinks it knows better?
I could have lived with being bombed to the stone-age. I could have lived with making peace with the Reapers.
But this pseudo religious mumbo jumbo nonsense from the conduit!? Honestly? There is peace between the Geth and the Quarians - stupid conduit proven wrong!
I feel like I was promised little blue children and BW/ME fail to deliver - big time.
The whole ending sounds like they wanted the thing over with, move on to greener pastures, whatever.
Yes, they are a company that wants to make a profit - but sc**ing over their fanbase?
And to add insult to injury, to be able to choose at all, I need to play a buggy multiplayer game, I am neither good at nor like?
I agree with magnuskn, I will be very careful in the future ordering a game in advance.
I LOVED the additions to the endings the Extended Cut DLC provided. I'm still left with a few tantalizing lingering questions, but 90% of the issues I had with the initial endings were resolved with the EC.
There isn't an ending I don't like now. Pretty incredible that they could write a Control ending which I'd be ok with. But I am! And EDI's voiceover throughout the Synthesis ending repeatedly gave me chills.
I am really looking forward to the next DLC. I hear rumor that it involves
Why are they putting Shepard's plaque on the wall after he survives the destroy ending?
They don't though. They go to put it up and then pause and someone (your LI or, if you don't have one, Garrus) looks at it without putting it up. This only happens if you have the highest score and also get the 'breathing' ending cut scene as well.
Had they went with the indoctrination it would have been brilliant.
Going with Indoctrination would have required the creation of a whole new game or a massive rewrite of the existing one. Whilst I don't rule out them cynically using it in the future to create a post-ME3 game, it certainly wasn't likely that the DLC would confirm the theory. However, they did keep it alive:
And to add insult to injury, to be able to choose at all, I need to play a buggy multiplayer game, I am neither good at nor like?
The Extended Cut reduces the score needed for the 'best' ending to below that only achievable by multiplayer, or so I understand. You still need to nail almost every right decision in all three games to get it, but it's now doable without going online.
I am really looking forward to the next DLC. I hear rumor that it involves
Interesting! That was set up way back in MASS EFFECT 2:
Why are they putting Shepard's plaque on the wall after he survives the destroy ending?They don't though. They go to put it up and then pause and someone (your LI or, if you don't have one, Garrus) looks at it without putting it up. This only happens if you have the highest score and also get the 'breathing' ending cut scene as well.
The Extended Cut reduces the score needed for the 'best' ending to below that only achievable by multiplayer, or so I understand. You still need to nail almost every right decision in all three games to get it, but it's now doable without going online
I got the breathing, wasn't paying much attention at that. Still the control ending looks the best, I don't see why Shepherd can't make himself an artificial body, or become a ship (like in the Night's Angel trilogy).
Going with Indoctrination would have required the creation of a whole new game or a massive rewrite of the existing one. Whilst I don't rule out them cynically using it in the future to create a post-ME3 game, it certainly wasn't likely that the DLC would confirm the theory. However, they did keep it alive:
I did hope for a new game called the After Effect. Did you try to shoot the Child, it also leads to the refusal ending
Was I the only one who really liked the multiplayer? Issues with getting items and new characters not withstanding (packs are annoying) murdering armies of collectors, reapers, cerberus, and geth is awesome.
Was I the only one who really liked the multiplayer? Issues with getting items and new characters not withstanding (packs are annoying) murdering armies of collectors, reapers, cerberus, and geth is awesome.
I don't think you are, I've heard a lot of good about the multiplayer part. I've not tried it myself though (partially because I didn't have anyone to play with, and partially because the ending crushed any interesting in the game that I might have had)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
I've been playing ME3 MP. The RNG in the store is annoying, but I farmed credits like crazy before they changed all the farming maps, and now I've got a pretty decent manifest.
Friend add me if you play on PC.
I've been playing ME3 MP. The RNG in the store is annoying, but I farmed credits like crazy before they changed all the farming maps, and now I've got a pretty decent manifest.
Friend add me if you play on PC.
That's a damn nice manifest, but then you've got nearly four times as many games in as I do. My own manifest is pretty thin in most areas. Mostly I play adepts or engineers since they can get by with crappier weapons.
I managed to get a Batarian soldier unlocked at one point and ran around with him non-stop for weeks at level 20 with a Revenant assault rifle just to farm for credits. He kept unlocking over and over again so I have all the colors and lights and everything on him. Being that he is almost indestructable, I set his color scheme as close to Superman's as I could. =P Similar to Diablo 3 though, my interest waned after about 3 weeks without someone else I knew to run around with.
The multiplayer is definitely WAY BETTER than I anticipated, and I think it'd be an absolute blast running through it repeatedly with three other friends instead of a trio of mute strangers.
I only played one game since they rolled out the old levels with hazards added to them. Thought it was neat, but then I got sucked into Shadow of the Colossus and Chrono Cross. I haven't even played through the Leviathan DLC yet, though I do have it.
Once the next DLC hits, I think that'll draw me back in for a while.
Still really not looking forward to Thane dying again. Ugh. What a heart-crushing scene.
Dal, do you play on PC, 360, or PS3?
PC
I still haven't sat down to really comment on the new extended endings. I don't want to bore with it, but I while I found it to be strong effort on Bioware's part to answer some of the issues - I still found it lacking in some ways.
I am revisting the game again now with the new DLC added to see if that changes my perspective before commenting further. I am also somewhat curious about the Omega expansion that is supposed to be coming as well. That sequence with Aria in the bar always struck me as unfinished, so it made sense they would come back to it.
Multiplayer has, I agree, turned out to be way better done than I expected. The theme - all the races fighting the Reapers and the rest to defend Citadel/known space - works to give you a unifying framework for gameplay without trying to force a PVP format on the game. The features and classes have been generally well done. I am finding I enjoy the Engineer and Infiltrator concepts way better than I did in the single player format. There are some weapons I feel are overpowering for some classes, but maybe that's skill thing I am lacking.
Not sure the new Achievements scores are all that critical, but it does work to keep the game fresh in some ways.
Multiplayer has, I agree, turned out to be way better done than I expected. The theme - all the races fighting the Reapers and the rest to defend Citadel/known space - works to give you a unifying framework for gameplay without trying to force a PVP format on the game. The features and classes have been generally well done. I am finding I enjoy the Engineer and Infiltrator concepts way better than I did in the single player format. There are some weapons I feel are overpowering for some classes, but maybe that's skill thing I am lacking.
Not sure the new Achievements scores are all that critical, but it does work to keep the game fresh in some ways.
I'm terrible with the infiltrator even in Multiplayer, but I completely agree that it seems better applied here than in the past in single player.
I'm not sure there are any overpowered weapons, but then I don't have all weapons high enough to make judgments on it. If you asked me right now I'd say the larger problem is that some weapons feel really underpowered.
I'm finally getting close to maxing out all of my uncommon stuff though. I figure I'm about 20-30 gold matches away from finishing up all my uncommon weapons, weapon mods, and getting a nice inventory of uncommon equipment. From there I'll slow down to the 1 gold item a round with spectre packs, but I'm not that worried about it.
|
I loved multiplayer, but got burnt out on it after awhile. That was a few months ago and now I have Borderlands 2, Assassin's Creed 3, and Halo 4 all vying for my attention as well. Those three and ME3 are probably my four favorite games to play with friends on, but the problem is that I don't have anyone I know to run around with on ME3.
Feel free to add me if you play on Xbox. Tag's the same as my alias.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
You will max out your uncommons and rares pretty quick buying PSPs. Actually you will max out your rares before your uncommons that way. The way the PSP generator works, it guarantees that you will get rare weapons and character cards before getting any rare expendables. Vet Packs don't do that. PSP's usually give you an uncommon as well.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
|
Leviathan DLC is pretty awesome. Does much to explain Reaper motivations, plus the mods you can find in game are pretty sweet (Ultralight pistol materials and Assault Rifle Omniblade attachment for my Close Range Infiltrator? Yes please!).
About to start Omega, which has much promise methinks.
I'm not sure there are any overpowered weapons, but then I don't have all weapons high enough to make judgments on it. If you asked me right now I'd say the larger problem is that some weapons feel really underpowered.
Understood - my comment is more based on opinion than fact. For example - I don't have the M-90 Indra in my inventory. Everytime I see it in action, it just seems to wipe out enemies way better than other rifles. I mean a fully automatic sniper rifle just looks awesome for an Infiltrator. It could just be a "grass is greener" feeling on my part. ;-)
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
Personally, I like the Indra. IIRC I have Indra IV. The issue a lot of people have with it is that you're out of cover while you're full auto firing, as opposed to say, the Widow, you're only exposed for the one shot.
Turian soldier with an Indra absolutely pwns face, though.
See, I have none of the good sniper rifles (seriously, I'm still using the Mantis). Nor do I have the Cerebrus Harrier. The net result is I feel like my own weapons are more underpowered.
For multiplayer, a Mantis is really good (assuming you can land headshots). Other sniper rifles have their uses, but except for the Ultra-Rare ones there's not much I find better than a Mantis. The Widow definitely is better, but not by a huge amount - arguably very like a Mantis with a built-in AP Mod. I actually prefer the Valiant when I'm using an Infiltrator...
Agreed - the Mantis is fairly functional. My issue is that the reload time is a killer with rifles such as the Mantis and Widow. Sure - you can punch through with one shot, but if you miss - I hate that delay.
The Valiant is a favorite of mine because you have that three shot clip. It's not as powerful, but with disruptor or freeze ammo, you can lock up the target and finish them off.That's why I am curious if the Indra will prove more effective with that style of sniping.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
Saber works nicely on a turian Ghost infi. If you're used to cloak sniping with other infis, Saber on a Ghost will feel very familiar. That's a good kit for soloing, too. The cloak helps with objectives and the stimpacks, when specced for shields, are a super panic button if you get in a bind.
How about the Saber? Accurate, hits harder than a lot of sniper rifles (though not as much as a Mantantis or Widow), and eight rounds before you reload. In some ways, a conterpart to the Indra in that it's an Assault Rifle that wants to do Sniper, rather than a Sniper Rifle that wants to do Assault.
Alas, the Saber is not in my inventory for multi-player - so I haven't tinkered with. I did acquire it in the single-player game, and it became my weapon of choice. Nor is the Revenant one I have access yet. The Harrier is another weapon I've been told is quite good.
Among Assualt Rifles, there are a couple that depends on the class for me. For some Adepts, the quick fire of the Phaeston works well with Biotics. The Valkyrie is really nice for long-range accuracy, so its useful with Engineers to me. The Mattock works well with Batarians, because they can take more punishment while firing more slowly with that weapon.
For the most part I don't have the full range of inventory. My treasure draws tend to be the same weapons with higher levels.
So.
Citadel DLC.
AMAZING.
Loved every second of it and I don't know if I'll ever leave Silversun Strip now. The mission, the party, all the dialogue, so many jokes... I was skeptical after how meh I thought the Omega DLC was. But this, this was astonishingly good.
And I can't express how cool it is to run around shooting Geth with Garrus and Wrex again. Even if it is in an arena - it's great to get the old band back together.
Yeah, this DLC is incredibly good and totally worth the price. About the best send-off they could have given the crew aside from making it post-ending and revising the stupid endings.
The happenings made me choke up a few times and laugh out loud at least ten times and elicited smiles at every turn. About every surviving crew member with a name gets her/his moment in the sun. The romance stuff was handled very well with Tali and I imagine will be so with the other love interest's as well.
Only thing I hated about it is that it means that Mass Effect with Shepard and crew is over. But, man, what a send-off!
Yea - its wrapping up well. I figured almost a year later we would be closing the book on Mass Effect for good. I am a little bummed to see it all come to an end. And I am wondering now:
a) The Shepard saga is done. So the question I have is where do they take it from here? Will there be new Mass Effect games - do they take place in the future or somewhere else during the Reaper war?
Will the choices you made as Shepard somehow impact that? Are they going to go for some form of full online adventures ala Elder Scrolls?
b) How will this impact the multiplayer side? They have a big Operation weekend event going on that seems to imply Bioware is powering down further extensive support for it? I have to say that the Multiplayer elements has turned out to be a great enhancement in this game. I have really enjoyed it, and I am now wondering if interest will start to wane and therefore the playerbase will see a downturn.
a) The Shepard saga is done. So the question I have is where do they take it from here? Will there be new Mass Effect games
The fourth Mass Effect game (which Bioware doesn't want people calling Mass Effect 4) is already in development.
- do they take place in the future or somewhere else during the Reaper war?
Statements from Bioware seem to indicate it will be creating games that take place chronologically after ME3, but it's too early to necessarily trust any of the details they're sharing.
Will the choices you made as Shepard somehow impact that?
From Yanick Roy, chief of Bioware Edmonton: "Story-wise, the arc of the first trilogy has also been concluded, and what we will do is tell a new story set in the 'Mass Effect' universe. That doesn’t mean that events of the first three games and the choices you made won’t get recognized, but they likely won’t be what this new story will focus on."
How will this impact the multiplayer side? They have a big Operation weekend event going on that seems to imply Bioware is powering down further extensive support for it? I have to say that the Multiplayer elements has turned out to be a great enhancement in this game. I have really enjoyed it, and I am now wondering if interest will start to wane and therefore the playerbase will see a downturn.
I don't have any figures, but I suspect that Bioware is pleased with how the reaction to its multiplayer component turned out. I would be surprised if we've seen the last of that format being used. The next Mass Effect game will probably feature a more robust version of that multiplayer format (assuming that the next game remains an FPS/RPG hybrid).
You guys having the same avatar had me really confused for a little bit there. =)
You guys having the same avatar had me really confused for a little bit there. =)
In his defense, Alex probably had it first.
LOL - I was thinking the same thing about the double avatars. Why did my post go in twice was my first thought. ;-)
Thank you for the insights, Scott. A couple of further thoughts:
Statements from Bioware seem to indicate it will be creating games that take place chronologically after ME3...
From Yanick Roy: "tell a new story set in the 'Mass Effect' universe. That doesn’t mean that events of the first three games and the choices you made won’t get recognized, but they likely won’t be what this new story will focus on."
While I can see the idea here, but this could lead to a bit of mess - story and programming wise. Without trying to drag out the whole Mass Effect 3 ending discussion again (but touching on some end-game spoilers), if you decide to set future games in the post-Shepard universe that seems to kind of limit your new story based on that end-game.
You have to essentially program the new game to create a system based on those previous choices. Depending on which ending you choose, you wind up having to either eliminate certain races and concepts (Destruction); explain why everyone/everything is now some sort of techno-organic hybrid (Synthesis); or just do away with the Reapers and anything they have controlled/influenced in the last three games (Control).
I can see that each option has potential for building new ideas - new races or dilemas in the "new" galaxy; new power/ability framework based on the alterations to all lifeforms; or even just create a new threat/big-bad in the post-Reaper universe (ironically - the Control option seems to allow for the most "normal" of Mass Effect scenarios).
But based on the ending, you can't have all these things together - its only one of three. That was the "hard" moral choice the game placed on you. Point being, you ended a game where the player's decisions have extensive impact on the game world you have created. Saying that those decision will merely be "recognized" is a bit of an understatement if you are trying to maintain the same game universe. Unless you plan on building three variations of the game to maintain consistency (and that's a lot of work), then it comes off as hand-waving the storyline. Which, in turn, would seem to minimize what you have been doing for three games.
And just to clarify, there's nothing wrong with that - some games or stories are built to allow for that. Mass Effect, however, is game with a lot of character development and personal investment in its design - as much as the gameplay concepts I think. You partially built the game on the notion that you are creating an "epic" hero. To minimize what was done before may be detrimental to fan interest unless it is handled well - which again seems to imply more than just casual acknowledgement in building your new game.
I have wondered if maybe Bioware shouldn't go the Irrational route as they did with the Bioshock series. Keep the same gameplay concepts and ideas, and recreate it in a "new" galaxy. It wouldn't be the same story-wise, but it might give you more flexibility in both story-line and ideas.
I don't have any figures, but I suspect that Bioware is pleased with how the reaction to its multiplayer component turned out. I would be surprised if we've seen the last of that format being used. The next Mass Effect game will probably feature a more robust version of that multiplayer format (assuming that the next game remains an FPS/RPG hybrid).
This was a little bit of commiserating on my part. I'm not ready to stop playing the multi-player side of it, but I worry there will be a decline in general playing after this last addition. Just a grumble.
For a new game, I don't doubt that there will be multi-player again. I just hope it is as well designed as the current one has been done.
|
|
Yeah, this DLC is incredibly good and totally worth the price. About the best send-off they could have given the crew aside from making it post-ending and revising the stupid endings.
The happenings made me choke up a few times and laugh out loud at least ten times and elicited smiles at every turn. About every surviving crew member with a name gets her/his moment in the sun. The romance stuff was handled very well with Tali and I imagine will be so with the other love interest's as well.
Only thing I hated about it is that it means that Mass Effect with Shepard and crew is over. But, man, what a send-off!
QFT! The Citadel dlc is simply great! This is a great send off for a series that I really enjoyed.
While I can see the idea here, but this could lead to a bit of mess - story and programming wise. Without trying to drag out the whole Mass Effect 3 ending discussion again (but touching on some end-game spoilers), if you decide to set future games in the post-Shepard universe that seems to kind of limit your new story based on that end-game.
You have to essentially program the new game to create a system based on those previous choices. Depending on which ending you choose, you wind up having to either eliminate certain races and concepts (Destruction); explain why everyone/everything is now some sort of techno-organic hybrid (Synthesis); or just do away with the Reapers and anything they have controlled/influenced in the last three games (Control).
I can see that each option has potential for building new ideas - new races or dilemas in the "new" galaxy; new power/ability framework based on the alterations to all lifeforms; or even just create a new threat/big-bad in the post-Reaper universe (ironically - the Control option seems to allow for the most "normal" of Mass Effect scenarios).
But based on the ending, you can't have all these things together - its only one of three. That was the "hard" moral choice the game placed on you. Point being, you ended a game where the player's decisions have extensive impact on the game world you have created. Saying that those decision will merely be "recognized" is a bit of an understatement if you are...
Word. If they set the new game after ME3, they have to choose one ending as canon. Otherwise, they will limit themselves to cutting off too many story avenues to avoid contradicting the different permutations. We will probably never hear of the characters of the first three games again, since every single one of them could be dead, but the big three things need to be susses out. Otherwise they might as well locate the new game on a single planet and studiously avoid mentioning what is happening outside in the galaxy. And with Synthesis, you can't even do that, since everybody is a borg drone.
Word. If they set the new game after ME3, they have to choose one ending as canon.
Blue! No, yel..AAAAAAGH!
My 19 yo daughter talked me into getting the PS3 trilogy and giving it another shot. It'll have to wait until after StarCraft before I even attempt to start it again. Not looking forward to the "samey" dropship/Mako quests again. It kinda burned me out of the first Me the first time around.
Do I really need to do the Mako side missions (I'll do the Bring Down the Sky mission) or will I be under the curve with difficulty later. Does the game scale to level revardless of area?
The game does not scale, however if you do the Mako missions, you'll rapidly outpace the main game and will have maximum money in the late game and the best mods and weapons will drop all the time.
Doing Pinnacle Station gives you access to a vendor who will sell you the best weapons and armors in the game, you'll just have to do a good bit of reloading until RNG gives you access to them.
Collecting all the writings of Matriach Dilanaga and the other little fetch-quests will give you a highly amusing dialogue with Conrad Verner in ME3. Make your own decision if this is worth it or just check it out on Youtube. ^^
Mako missions can be done with really not so much effort. Check the map, set the next target, go there, set next target, etc. No big deal. It doesn't get vomitous until you decide to Get It All (tm) and vacuum the surface of every planet.
Word. If they set the new game after ME3, they have to choose one ending as canon.
That wouldn't be tough. Synthesis is too disruptive to the overall ME universe. Control is interesting, but takes the universe in a whole new direction with their new Reaper guardians/overlords. Destroy is really the best choice for a lot of reasons.
|
Word. If they set the new game after ME3, they have to choose one ending as canon.That wouldn't be tough. Synthesis is too disruptive to the overall ME universe. Control is interesting, but takes the universe in a whole new direction with their new Reaper guardians/overlords. Destroy is really the best choice for a lot of reasons.
I ultimately chose synthesis. I couldn't make myself destroy the geth and EDI, not after all i did for them and gave them a future...