Lose: Mount, Weapon Expertise, Mounted Archer
Gain: Spirit Draw, Blade Expertise, Iajitsu
Spirit Draw (Ex):
At 1st level, the samurai learns the mystical art of drawing forth
the spirit of his weapon. He can use this ability a number of times per
day equal to 1/2 his samurai level (minimum 1) + his Wisdom modifier.
At 1st level, a samurai can expend 1 daily use of this ability as a
swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus
for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another
+1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses
can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement
to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with
themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following
weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst,
keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the
property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the
weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not
magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other
properties can be added. These bonuses and properties cannot be changed
until the next time the samurai uses this ability. These bonuses do not
function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the samurai.
A samurai can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he
uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
This ability replaces Mount.
Blade Expertise (Ex):
At 3rd level, the samurai gains unparalleled expertise with blade weapons. The samurai can draw any blade (heavy) or blade (light) weapon as a free action as if he had the Quick Draw feat. In addition, whenever he threatens a critical hit with the such a weapon, he gains a +2 bonus on the confirmation roll. Finally, his samurai levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites for Weapon Specialization feats, so long as the chosen weapon is of the blades (heavy) or blades (light) weapon group.
This ability replaces Weapon Expertise.
Iajitsu (Ex):
At 6th level, the samurai may draw his blade at blinding speed. During a surprise round, he may perform both a move and attack action. This attack is made at a +2 bonus, as if the samurai had performed a charge. Until the start of his next turn, the samurai takes a -2 penalty to AC.
This ability replaces Mounted Archer.
Not really supposed to be super balanced. Sorry I forgot to include that part. Mostly it's a cool alternative to a class most people find underpowered. So, if I made it a little too powerful, that's probably why.
Spirit Draw is lifted directly from the magus. So, in terms of balance, it isn't... Then again, some archetypes already do that. Still, Mana Pool is one of the magus' big abilities.
Blade Expertise is better than Weapon Expertise, if you are using a blade weapon. Otherwise, it isn't. The later is still better for polearm (naginata) users, or bow (yumi) users. So, I'd say it's a wash.
Iajitsu is situational, but nonetheless it's pretty good. Mostly for the cool factor of leaping forward and slashing apart foes. But, as surprise rounds aren't all that common, it won't happen nearly as often as mounted archery. Thus, it's on par with the ability which it replaces.
Thanks for the input, though (and I don't mean to sound as if I don't appreciate it, by countering your points; feel free to respond to my counter-points).
I have a couple players that are interested in samurai, but detoured by the mounted aspect. They are more interested in playing badass-anime samurais.
Not to mention, most campaigns aren't really fit for mounted combat. A real waste of a major class feature in that case.
Hence, this archetype :)
Brutal Strike seems to replace an ability Mounted Charge, which a samurai doesn't possess. Strange.
Pretty cool though, and definitely in line with what I was thinking.
I see that I am not the only one who decided to tweak a full BAB class with arcane pool ability? :D
I like the arcane pool while generally avoiding mounts (due to the whole "often don't fit into dungeon" matter) so I like this.
Iaijitsu is doing less than it seems because if it gives charge bonus and penalty while allowing for moving your speed and attacking it works exactly as a charge used as a standard action. Which can be used by anyone while limited to one standard action on his turn. SO it makes sense if someone wants to make a move-equivalent action and attack (e.g. draw bow as a swift action, fire as a standard action, "sheathe" bow giving all clear for drawing melee weapon in following round as a swift action).
Thematically I think the Arcane Pool ability works with the Samurai, when it is flavored as summoning kami from a weapon.
Mechanically, it seems like it might be too much. But, I'm not convinced. So, I'm keeping it, and a player of mine is gonna make a lot of use out of it XD
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Not exactly like a charge. It doesn't allow you to move twice your speed, nor does it have to be in a straight line. Essentially, it's allowing a move + attack action when you would normally only be allowed one or the other, with the added benefit/penalty of the charge attack bonus/ac penalty.
Combine it with the free action drawing of a blade, due to Weapon/Blade Expertise, and you've got iajitsu-action!
I'm not keen on the mystical element of the Blademaster in the form of Spirit Draw. A "blademaster", for me, brings to mind a master of the blade who's skill is extraordinary, not supernatural. What you presenting with "Spirit Draw" is something akin to a "Ki Blade" or some such archetype. I don't think the samurai needs the help in the form of the double-wammy of Challenge and Spirit Draw - one of the two is enough (so Spirit Draw could replace Challenge), thus leaving the "mount" class feature open for a different replacement (which should not focus on direct attack/damage enhancement).
"Blade Expertise" is strictly better than "Weapon Expertise" - and I don't think the change is warranted, unless you're building a specific master-of-many-blades - which is not really the feeling conveyed by Spirit Draw which suggests a powerful bond between the samurai and his weapon.
"Iajitsu" is quite nice - but I think the Paizo version in Dragon Empires Primer (the Sword Saint) is a better take on Iajitsu.
Thematically I think the Arcane Pool ability works with the Samurai, when it is flavored as summoning kami from a weapon.
Or channeling Ki.
Not exactly like a charge. It doesn't allow you to move twice your speed, nor does it have to be in a straight line. Essentially, it's allowing a move + attack action when you would normally only be allowed one or the other, with the added benefit/penalty of the charge attack bonus/ac penalty.
Charge as a standard action (when limited to a standard action) allows only moving your regular speed not twice the speed like normal full-round action charge. You are right on the straight line, however. Personally, I would rather not give charge attack bonus/ac penalty on this if it is not actual charge.
Modifies: Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Replaces: Mount, Weapon Expertise, Mounted Archer, Banner, Greater Banner
Gain: Fast Movement
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana and wakizashi. Samurai are proficient with light armor and medium armor, but not with shields.
Fast Movement (Ex): A samurai’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the samurai’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the samurai's land speed.
Spirit Draw (Ex): A samurai learns the mystical art of drawing forth the spirit of his weapon. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 his samurai level (minimum 1) + his Wisdom modifier.
At 1st level, a samurai can expend 1 daily use of this ability as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties cannot be changed until the next time the samurai uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the samurai.
A samurai can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
This ability replaces Mount.
Blade Expertise (Ex): At 3rd level, the samurai gains unparalleled expertise with the katana and wakizashi. The samurai can draw either as a free action as if he had the Quick Draw feat. In addition, whenever he threatens a critical hit with a katana or wakizashi, he gains a +2 bonus on the confirmation roll. Finally, his samurai levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites for Weapon Specialization feats, so long as the chosen weapon is katana or wakizashi.
This ability replaces Weapon Expertise.
Iajitsu Strike (Ex): At 4th level, the samurai can perform a lightning quick iaijutsu strike against any target that has not yet acted in combat, inflicting devastating wounds while drawing his sword. As a full-round action, he may move up to his speed and strike an enemy within range. The samurai does not provoke an attack of opportunity during this movement, and his attack is made a +2 bonus. However, he suffers a –2 penalty to AC until the start of his next turn. In order to use this ability, the samurai’s weapon must be sheathed at the start of his turn.
If he successfully hits his opponent with an iaijutsu strike, his attack deals an additional +1d8 points of damage. This bonus damage increases by an additional +1d8 at 8th level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of +5d8 damage at 20th level. Any extra damage as a result of a successful iaijutsu strike is not multiplied by a critical hit.
An iaijutsu strike devastates the morale of foes that witness it. When a samurai successfully hits with an iaijutsu strike, all foes within 30 feet must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the samurai’s class level + the samurai’s Cha modifier) or becomes shaken for 1d4+1 rounds.
This ability replaces Mounted Archer.
Daisho (Ex): At 5th level, a samurai’s blades becomes a symbol of inspiration to his allies and companions. As long as the samurai’s blades are clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. The samurai's blades must be carried or displayed by the samurai to function.
This ability replaces Banner.
Greater Daisho (Ex): At 14th level, a samurai’s blades further inspire his allies and companions. All allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and compulsion spells and effects. In addition, while wielding one of his blades, the samurai can spend a swift action when he successfully strikes an enemy, granting all allies within 60 feet an additional saving throw against any one spell or effect that is targeting them. This save is made at the original DC. Spells and effects that do not allow saving throws are unaffected by this ability. An ally cannot benefit from this ability more than once per day.
This ability replaces Greater Banner.
I swear I've seen a bunch of samurai archetypes that have the arcane pool ability. I wonder why?
I swear I've seen a bunch of samurai archetypes that have the arcane pool ability. I wonder why?
Because it suits them flavor-wise? Or maybe you just watch too much anime ;)
That's the thing...it doesn't fit the flavor.
Especially not as an Ex. I'm gonna go with the latter postulation...
Hmm. An oversight. It's definitely (Su). Thanks, Cheapy.
I'd want to see a samurai alt that didn't use armor, maybe like a Wis Bonus thing like monks and maybe had a Ki pool too. Something like a multiclass with ninja or Monk maybe...? But without having to multiclass.
We did something kind of similar with our "Student of the Sword" archetype we are releasing with our "Heroes of the East II" book.
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An item of note. Samurai were first and foremost, cavalry. The Yari was the preferred weapon, while the sword was considered to be more of a backup weapon to be used from the ground if they were unseated. You certainly can adjust your world as you like, but removing the mount from the Samurai would be similar to removing it from the Cavalier.
I recently played a pregen 7th level Samurai character in a PFS session and I was actually quite impressed with how paizo put the class together. Many of the abilities gave the class the feel of representing the traditional samurai.
I personally don't find the samurai an underpowered martial class.
Have you checked out Rite Publishing's Way of the Samurai? We've got 3 samurai archetypes, 2 prestige classes and archetypes for Buke caste (members of the samurai caste) for gunslinger, paladin, ranger, and wizard, as well as 3 new samurai orders, traits and feats. All the reviewers think this a 5 star product - might be worth checking out.
How helpful it will be to you, I'm sure, since none of the archetypes are over powered. They are still awesome though.
Hmm. An oversight. It's definitely (Su). Thanks, Cheapy.
You've missed the point.
When building a balanced archetype, you are allowed to replace any existing (Ex) ability with another (Ex) ability, or you can replace any existing (Su) ability with another (Su) ability, however you cannot replace an (Su) for an (Ex) - that would be overpowered.
Since Mount is an (Ex) and Spirit Draw is an (Su), you've done it wrong. You can only replace Mount (Ex) with another (Ex) ability. Do you understand?
Since all the abilities of a Samurai are (Ex), you cannot introduce an (Su) power and maintain a balanced archetype. So your archetype design is overpowered and there's no way to add Spirit Draw or another kind of Arcane Pool without creating an overpowered archetype.
Sure thing, gamer-printer.
Well if arcane bond can be an ex for the magician, I don't see why spirit draw can't be ex. also gamer printer i would like to know where that rule has been presented.
"Spirit Draw" is basically a re-fluffed "Arcane Pool". Thus, it should be a supernatural ability. When I listed it as extraordinary, it was an oversight. My intent was that it would be supernatural, I just listed the incorrect type.
This "rule", so to speak, might originate from RPG Superstar, with which gamer-printer seems to be affiliated. If I'm incorrect in this assumption, then he's most likely coined it himself to lend credit to his criticism.
That said, I don't think supernatural abilities are inherently stronger than extraordinary ones. Seems completely arbitrary, but hey--I obviously know nothing about creating archetypes for my home games (nor should I be sharing them with others that might be similarly-minded).
^_^
It's a standard procedure done by 3PP game designers to not create overpowered archetypes. A tradeoff can be done if multiple (Ex) abilities are replaced by a single (Su) ability, but that's much harder to balance. Arcane bond is much lower in power than an Arcane Pool. As you may have noticed in my previous post, I did not quote any actual rules regarding my point. What Paizo allows on it's own is not subject to any such rules.
@Detect Magic - I was not pointing out your error of labeling an (Ex) when it should have been an (Su), rather choosing to replace with an (Su) when you should stick to a different (Ex) ability.
Also I have no idea if this 'rule' has anything to do with RPG Superstar, although I have been a past participant in the past. My concerns come from being a freelance game designer/developer for Rite Publishing and other 3PP companies.
Supernatural abilities have something to do with magic, whereas Extraordinary abilities are generally skill based. A martial class like Samurai uses (Ex) powers and no magic. Adding a magical ability changes it from being a martial class and leads to creating overpowered builds.
Regarding tradeoffs, one should consider (Ex) like Resolve which as wide usage in game. Had an (Su) replaced Resolve (Ex) that would have been a more balanced trade. Mount (Ex) is a very situational bonus, so replacing that with Spirit Draw (Su) is much overpowered. Look at replacing a less situational (Ex) like Resolve and you might be closer to a balanced build.
...I don't think supernatural abilities are inherently stronger than extraordinary ones.
Supernatural abilities are certainly stronger than Extraordinary ones.
Look at the Ranger's Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) and compare to the Shadow Dancer's Hide in Plain Sight (Su) - the Shadow Dancer's version is definitely stronger than the Ranger's of the same listed ability.
Ranger: Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) - While in any of his favored terrains, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.
Shadow Dancer: Hide in Plain Sight (Su) - A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Note the power difference between the (Su) vs. the (Ex) of the same labeled ability. Can you not see that the (Su) version of Hide in Plain Sight is inherently more powerful than the Rangers. The Shadow Dancer can pull shadows within 10 feet to magically cover her. The ranger cannot.
The difference is obvious.
Both are situational. I do not consider one stronger than the other--unless, of course, the shadowdancer has some means to cast darkness or similar magic. Still, darkness is an easy spell to counter, and there's always dispel magic.
I suppose I just don't share your design philosophy.
@Detect Magic: I think it useful that gamer-printer has at least pointed out a design philosophy that is at least commonly used by designers, whether or not you agree with it - I had never considered the implications of swapping one for the other.
I do think however that it might be more useful to examine the inherent differences between (Ex) and (Su) powers/abilities: like what they do and don't affect, resistances etc. My gut feeling is that (Su) is more powerful than (Ex) - the CRB entries on those would be a definite start...
I consider the examples g-p provided illuminating but by no means completely persuasive.
Indeed--different strokes for different folks.
Well look at Detect Magic's choices, is gaining vorpal to your weapon more powerful than no armor check penalties while mounted. Most abilities are situational, but there is still a distinct power difference between the two.
Because "vorpal" at 17th level is totally game-breaking.
Spirit Draw allows vorpal at 5th level, not 17th. And I never said it was game-breaking, just over powered and unbalanced. I don't want to convince you of anything you're not interested for improving in your design. I was simply pointing out your flaws. It's your game, do what you want.
Since you took the time to post this, I thought you were asking for a critique of your build, so I responded.
I think you'd be better off making a Magus seem more like a Samurai, than to give a major Magus ability to a Samurai. The former might work, the latter is overpowered.
Not sure what you're implying. "Vorpal" requires a +5 bonus, which when granted by the "Arcane Pool" ability requires 17th-level.
When I posted this (a year ago) I was looking for some critique, sure--but, I was also posting it for anyone that might want to borrow it for their game. I frequent these boards looking for things I can use in my home games. While I care about balance, I just don't agree with your take on it.
Our play styles are probably just as varied as our design philosophies. That's not a bad thing. Like you said, I'll play the game how I choose, and so shall you.
This is the sort of thing I was hinting at/wondering about. Inherent differences between the two. Definite thanks from me Tim4488 for opening the wurmcan. You make a good point. Interested to see other thoughts. Detect Magic/gamer-printer/anyone else?
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i like your archetype here. though i agree with the sentiment that the swift Spirit Draw (Su) is a little too cool for a full BAB. probably fine for a home game though.
possible suggestions:
1) make it a standard action
2) make it effective against only a single foe
3) change to a scaling reduction of Armor Check Penalty while wielding blades
4) change to a bonus to Intimidate while wearing mask and wielding blades
@Tim4488: I agree (especially with your use of the word "usually" when describing the power level of supernatural abilities).
@rainzax: I don't understand how it's any cooler than a paladin that can heal himself as a swift action, cast spells, and summon a celestial mount.
This whole "martial" =/= "cool" sentiment needs to die in a fire.
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i am currently running a rogue in my 6-character game group, and i am the only one without any spells or magic.
and actually, it makes me feel quite special. (this might be considered ironic to some)
but my view on Samurai, which i suppose we do not share, is that they belong in the small group of extraordinary (Ex) classes along with the rogue, fighter, and barbarian.
and basically i agree with Tim4488 on the Ex vs Su debate; very succinctly argued.
if it were me, which it is not, and i wanted to grant a full-BAB class magical (Su or Sp) enhancement bonuses, it would make the most sense to then go ahead and grant 4-levels of spells. the same 'spirit' could grant additional powers. heck, you could even model it after the paladin. or monk (with ki).
anyhow, carry on. i like most of what you got there. i suppose the Spirit Draw just bugs me a little, but it's not a big deal.
I can understand the appeal of playing non-magical classes. Hell, the character I'm most excited to play right now is a fighter! But, sometimes I (and the people I game with) get an itch to play something more mystical. Samurai seemed a good fit, especially considering I was getting ready to run an eastern setting at the time. Anime might also be to blame XD
I can understand the appeal of playing non-magical classes. Hell, the character I'm most excited to play right now is a fighter! But, sometimes I (and the people I game with) get an itch to play something more mystical. Samurai seemed a good fit, especially considering I was getting ready to run an eastern setting at the time. Anime might also be to blame XD
Anime is always to blame.
Trade-off: "to blame" or "another possible source material for a game focusing on the fantastical"?
why can't it be both ;)