I really don't like it mostly because it requires 13 intelligence and over all I don't believe that anyone enjoys taking downgrade on attack rolls or maybe that's just me...other then getting it to open up new feat options I personally will not spend what few feats I have on this unless it supports your build.
Now I'm not 100% on this I'm kinda new to table top RPGs and I have made this mistake before so really this post is 50% me vocalizing and 50% wanting to be proven wrong so if u have anything to say in response feel free to post
I'm also underwhelmed by the feat. I only see 3 reasons to use it:
1: You find out that your target is extremely easy to hit, so you may as well add the miserly +1-5 to your AC while you're at it.
2: You need a natural 20 to hit the guy anyway, so you may as well add the miserly +1-5 to your AC while you're at it.
3: You don't plan on beating the enemy, only on holding the enemy at bay via higher AC, and if you get a rare hit it, it's a bonus.
The reduced penalty/bonus from 3.5 also invokes a sneer from me.
At +1 AC for -1 to hit... the Dodge feat is better. It's like that until you have BAB +4. It's like giving your body the Defending weapon property.
Please also note that Combat Expertise is very useful for wizards (specifically those that often use touch attacks), and is also a prerequisite for many many feats.
Combat Expertise has it's benefits. Like you mentioned its the pre-feat to some abilities, but I took it for my front-line TWF rogue/fighter build. Against weaker enemies I tend to just do straight TWF to mow through them. However, when faced against a high BAB heavy hitting enemy I will use my +3 buckler (+4 AC tot) combined with combat expertise (+2 AC at Lvl9)to boost my AC up considerably. Going from a 29 to a 35 AC can really make a difference. It has saved me more than once.
I really don't like it mostly because it requires 13 intelligence and over all I don't believe that anyone enjoys taking downgrade on attack rolls or maybe that's just me...other then getting it to open up new feat options I personally will not spend what few feats I have on this unless it supports your build.
Well, Power Attack still seems pretty popular.
My gripe is... if I'm playing a level 3 anything with 3 ranks in Acrobatics, I can fight defensively: -4 to hit, +3 AC. No feat required, and 3 ranks in acrobatics is never a bad thing - jumping, balancing, tumbling and fightingDefensively/fullDefense? Yes please.
Yes, the trade is better for CEx, but at level 3, it's only +1, which isn't significant, and it costs a feat.
In the higher levels the boost may make a difference, but CEx is the start of a feat chain, so you're likely taking it at an earlier level, when the numbers don't mean as much.
Now Power Attack... there's a feat! 2:1 ratio on most weapons, and when used well against an enemy, they suffer an infinite penalty to hit, on account of being a crumpled bloody mess.
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it has a significant penalty (requiring 13 int)
Needing a 13 INT to take it isn't always a penalty. It's not that uncommon for a ranger to take 12-14 INT to fill a skill-monkey role, some human fighters like the extra skill ranks or want a decent Kn(local) for organized play, etc.
Yes, the feat is a bit lackluster. But to call 13 INT a "penalty" shows just how few effective characters you're personally capable of building. ;)
Thank you everyone for the input there are lots of good points on here and I hope to see more I wouldn't mind taking it but most of my builds don't have int as a focuse unless there caster. I don't see myself taking from wis or Cha to add to int so I can acquire combat expertise unless I'm going to be the party monkey and AC tank along with juiced skills.
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In our PFS group, one of our members has a halfling armor master fighter. He's one of the cases where he doesn't expect to hit (and doesn't do a whole lot when he does) so he's quite happy to get the bonus AC. At 4th level he had 30 something AC when he was fighting defensively.
Yeah the feat isn't for every build, but many builds benefit from it. I've got a monk/fighter with the aldori dueling sword that makes quite good use out of the feat too. And I believe there's a trait out there that reduces the penalty from the feat, though it has been awhile since I saw it, and I may be mis-remembering it.
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Anyone who enjoys not taking damage (or not spending a small fortune on wands of CLW) should look into Combat Expertise.
Consider that most monsters are only in one encounter per day and Pcs are frequently in 4+; playng defense can often be in the PCs advantage. Since moster AC and to hit don't scale the same, +1 AC is worth more than +1 hit.
Compared to Power Attack, though, Combat Expertise pales a bit. But that's more Power Attack being a little too good than Combat Expertise being lackluster.