To be fair though the whole botched monstrosity that was the War of the Spider Queen did occur under 3.5 FR and not 4E. I'm not saying they handled it coprrectly under 4E as I too liked Elisatrae yet it's somethingh that was in the works imo lokk before 4E was to be released.
Yes, but the Lady Penitent Series was it's continuation and that was what was used to set up the whole changeover to 4E. And its ending was was one of the most jacked up pieces of crap writen, which is sad because I actually liked the writer and the writing style. But the content was horrid.
I'm still annoyed that Talos was 'revealed' to be Gruumsh and Malar 'defected' to Silvanus!Ask a fan of Eilistrae what they thought of how their favorite goddess ( and her followers ) were handled.
Seriously? Where did this happen? Was it post SP or right in the middle of the changeover?
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Yes, but the Lady Penitent Series was it's continuation and that was what was used to set up the whole changeover to 4E. And its ending was was one of the most jacked up pieces of crap writen, which is sad because I actually liked the writer and the writing style. But the content was horrid.
No worse then the ending of the War of the Spider Queen. I was sad to see elistrae go. I really disliked the whole "I bet you all were expecting something different to happen to Lolth guess what fooled you!" vibe I go from the Spidr Queen series. One of the few times I felt an FR novel had pulled a bait and switch on me.
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Wow, that's what WotC said happened to Eilistraee?
Good thing it never happened! Eilistraee's still the primary elven deity in my homebrew. :)
Personally, I was using quite a bit of discontinuity on a lot of 3E Realms already anyway. It's just that I've applied it to everything with the Spellplague and the lead-up to it. The only real change is that I don't give WotC money any more because they're not making anything relevant to my settings.
Yes, but the Lady Penitent Series was it's continuation and that was what was used to set up the whole changeover to 4E. And its ending was was one of the most jacked up pieces of crap writen, which is sad because I actually liked the writer and the writing style. But the content was horrid.
This.
Wow, that's what WotC said happened to Eilistraee?
Good thing it never happened! Eilistraee's still the primary elven deity in my homebrew. :)
Personally, I was using quite a bit of discontinuity on a lot of 3E Realms already anyway. It's just that I've applied it to everything with the Spellplague and the lead-up to it. The only real change is that I don't give WotC money any more because they're not making anything relevant to my settings.
And this, too. Only that I don't have time anymore to do homebrewn, AP's are set in Golarion, and converting them... well, as I said, time.
And Golarion still has a way to go before it is comparable to the old Realms, in terms of interesting plotlines and interesting NPC's.
I noticed it the most with Pharaun from the second to the third book. From his best straight to his worst. It got better, but the changes in stile often were quite significant.The only FR novels that made me go WHAT? Not to mention the only FR series I sold off to the used bookstore.Yeah and WotSQ really suffered badly from the use of multiple authors. Normally I'm not opposed to this and it has had some great results in the past! But this series... woo boy. There was just too much of characters acting WAY out of character... well, as they were written by the other authors, anyway.
Agreed. Each of the characters felt so different between the books! Gah!
For example, it was so bizarre to have a meek, mild-mannered woman (not only on the outside, but also from what we could see of her thoughts) in captivity suddenly not only be a super-genius in double-crosses but delight in torture and murder. And then die like a punk. Wat.
This.
Yes, but the Lady Penitent Series was it's continuation and that was what was used to set up the whole changeover to 4E. And its ending was was one of the most jacked up pieces of crap writen, which is sad because I actually liked the writer and the writing style. But the content was horrid.
See, I'm really sorry I missed the Lady Penitent series because it looked great. But I'm also not sorry I missed the Lady Penitent series because I keep hearing that it ends terribly.
It's kind of like the Fractured Sky series (on a related note): that's a very fascinating look at the actual things going on during the change-over... but:
1) the people you're following fail spectacularly in every way; they literally never succeed at anything they attempt - not even once!
2) the actual switch between 3.5 and 4E is kind of... I don't know, I'd say "sudden", but that kind of makes sense. It just felt strange. Also I was someone bemused by how 3.X rules were still at play sometimes in the 4E stuff, and they weren't at other times.
3) some of the tactics used by the "good" guys were... hm. Let's say "awkward".
4) related to number three: "good", lol!
Really both series had some excellent moments, but the change up between the styles was just grating at times.
Also, the Masked Lady concept for Eilistraee looked unbelievably cool. And then got nipped in the bud, 'cause, OH WELL, 4E TIME.
Wow, that's what WotC said happened to Eilistraee?
Good thing it never happened! Eilistraee's still the primary elven deity in my homebrew. :)
Personally, I was using quite a bit of discontinuity on a lot of 3E Realms already anyway. It's just that I've applied it to everything with the Spellplague and the lead-up to it. The only real change is that I don't give WotC money any more because they're not making anything relevant to my settings.
And this, too. Only that I don't have time anymore to do homebrewn, AP's are set in Golarion, and converting them... well, as I said, time.
And Golarion still has a way to go before it is comparable to the old Realms, in terms of interesting plotlines and interesting NPC's.
See, I think Golarion's never going to be what Forgotten Realms was, because they're different settings. I find it interesting that they have few comparisons, often what comparisons they do have either relate modern things to ancient things and ancient things to more ancient things, and/or are at the wrong sides of the map*. And even then, the comparisons are vague at best.
I think that Golarion was just designed with a different philosophy in mind. It works together, it has a coherent story (more or less), but it's also not supposed to really be a living world, unlike Toril - it's just got it's own history that really won't advance and will be very slowly (if ever truly, and maybe never fully) be fleshed out over time. It's a great setting - and I love it! - but it's not Forgotten Realms, and it shouldn't try to be. Sometimes I like apples, sometimes I like oranges, and sometimes I like fruit cocktails*** with both, and sometimes I like something else entirely. I don't think one should try to imitate or become the other.
Edit 2: As in, I think all the plotlines and threads and such are found in the APs and the Inner Sea World Guide/Whatever Setting Book (most of which, from what I can tell, are later/have previously been explored in the APs). Golarion is just a whole different creature than FR.
Edit: Also, Mikaze, Eilistraee is the PATRON DEITY of the ELVES in yours? I WANT IN YOUR GAMES! (EDIT 2: I think I knew that, actually. Maybe you mentioned this before.)
* EX: Like how Thassilon was an ancient city obsessed with intricate designs that enhanced or defined their magic ruled by several super-powerful mages which could roughly correspond with a certain set of crimson Zulkiirs (if they were millennia** gone and at the opposite corner of the map) or how the World Wound used to be a barbaric, tribal land, populated by powerful witches or nature/spirit worshipers who lived in communion with the spirits there = Rashem-OOPS-YOU'RE-INVADED-BY-DEMONS-FOREVER!
** I'm not able to find the "proper" spelling for this word, yet I could have sworn there was one. "Millenia", "milennia", "milenia" all show up as wrong and the best answer I can get for them is "millennium" or "millennium".
*** Non-alcoholic, please. I'm a teetotaler. On that note, why isn't it spelled "teatotaler"?
Edit: grammar!
Seriously? Where did this happen? Was it post SP or right in the middle of the changeover?I'm still annoyed that Talos was 'revealed' to be Gruumsh and Malar 'defected' to Silvanus!Ask a fan of Eilistrae what they thought of how their favorite goddess ( and her followers ) were handled.
I've known of the Talos=Gruumsh for a bit (Diffan explained it to me), but I don't know when or how it was shown. I'm still mystified as to why Malar would defect to Silvanus. Ever. Even if Talos and Gruumsh were the same, that's just right up Malar's ally.
Ask a fan of Eilistrae what they thought of how their favorite goddess ( and her followers ) were handled.
Poorly.
Link? I don't remmeber seeing this at all. Then again it's not the first time a FR god impersonated another one.
It was actually reveiled that Talos was actually Gruumsh, though I doubt many Talosians believe that. It was a way for Gruumsh to obtain more followers from races outside of Orcs. The same way Sehanine Moonbow is really another aspect of Selûne. A moon goddess appearing to multiple races in their own preceived form will likely be given different names. Those different aspects then grow/manifest into different portfolios and beliefs. Not really that unheard of even in Real World mythology. Heck, Lathander has been Amaunator for a long time and there is possibly a "thrid face of Dusk" too.
That's a heresy and you know it! ;P
What I actually don't like about that, is that while FR supplements did a great job of giving the "what if" scenarios and "in character" expectations, it did occasionally pull back the curtain. One of the things that was very clear in print was that, really, Amaunator was dead. Like, totally, really dead. It explains how his corpse is currently floating in the Astral Plane.It's an interesting concept that many Talosians still don't accept that Gruumsh is their god!
I never read the book series but Elistraee is alive and well in my post-Spellplague Realms and I even did a lot of mechanical works in the form of Paragon Paths and divinity feats for her clergy/followers as well.
I'd love seeing those, at some point! :)
Glarg. Okay, so, sorry for, like, the triple post, but anyway, stuff is spread across a few tabs. My bad, guys. I'll work on consolidating the rest in this one.
I don't see why that would be a problem really. It makes sense imo and I never liked the whole "I'm a good of orcs so only orcs can worship me" type of logic. In one of my FR games the group I was running the game for converted a tribe of hobgoblins to worship Tempus. They are gods why should they be limited by race.
It's not so much that they were limited, as I understood it, as they limited themselves. As in, "I'm a god of orcs, and those other races can <the rest of this sentence has been censored by Erathis for propriety of public consumption>!!"
I liked the Elisatrae followers in WotSQ. Lisa Smedman did a good job at giving us good .
Agreed. That was pretty well done, I'll admit.
I even liked the first book of the 'brown is good, black is evil' trillogy. I know ganking a (semi-popular) evil deity would upset some, but the 'masked dancer' goddess that came out of it looked to be an interesting schism/direction on where the two churches (and Eilistrae) were going from there. Then it went south.
WHICH IS MY POINT. It looked great. But I'd be repeating myself, SO...
One other thought on Arcane age vs Spellplauge.
Arcane Age to modern, we have survivors, not just the City of Shade. It would be possible to 'save yourself' with the fall of Nethril, but even then, you (the player) knew Nethril was going to fall in the true timeline. Sure, your mad wizard fred might survive the disruption of the weave, and be able to keep his tower off plane or in the middleo f nowhere intact, to make your footprint, but you knew going in that the Realms would change.
Modern to Spellplauge doesn't even get you that. Entire continents destroyed. Your character set a city in Maztica? Gone. Your character built a wizard's school in Halruaa? Paved over by a new continent. Wizard's advice to players who had set up in such places? "Sorry to hear it, start a new game."
This. Again, there are ways around it, but they're weak, at best. And why did it affect some and not others? "Well, um, because, of course."
Mystra Lives!
Preach it!
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It's not so much that they were limited, as I understood it, as they limited themselves. As in, "I'm a god of orcs, and those other races can <the rest of this sentence has been censored by Erathis for propriety of public consumption>!!"
I still makes no sense. A god is god. If anything it's not so much the gods limiting themseles so much as the designers wanting to limit them. Why would any god turn away more worhsipers. More worshipers equals more power. I could understand if say elves for some weird reason starting worshipping Grummsh. Between two racial groups that are different yet also compitable why not.
As for Talosians not accepting Gruumsh as their god. Well they make a big fuss but really they have no choice. either accept ir lose their power.
It does show how popularity of a character can influence opinions. No one really cared that Shar took out Ibrudl yet when Gruumsh impersonates Talos it bothers some fans. I just find it funny.
In the end with the endless complaints about too many gods, too many high level npcs and too many cities. Wotc imo had to do something. They did goo too far yet I'm glad they did it. Want to play in the pre-Spellplague FR you still can no one is coming to take your books to orevent you from doing so. If they can pull off allowing all eras of play it will be a major thing that will imo bring in FR fans. Makes me wonder though if they have to hire more staff to do so.
I was not sad to see the Mystara go. Her replacement during the time of troubles annoyed the hell out of me. Now if they can get a better replacment sucj as the Simbul I would be happy.
Simbul as Mystra would be lovely and as a bonus wecould have a rivalry between Elminster and Azuth for her attention, but seriously I don't get why Talos had to go in favour of Gruumsh that is rather lame in comparison. Ilneval should have finally dealt with him and sent the orcs on a rampage.
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Simbul as Mystra would be lovely and as a bonus wecould have a rivalry between Elminster and Azuth for her attention, but seriously I don't get why Talos had to go in favour of Gruumsh that is rather lame in comparison. Ilneval should have finally dealt with him and sent the orcs on a rampage.
Probably tp rpune gods that have similar functions ans abilties. Too many gos with simialr functions and portfolios. How many gods of war did we have in fR.
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Simbul as Mystra would be lovely and as a bonus wecould have a rivalry between Elminster and Azuth for her attention, but seriously I don't get why Talos had to go in favour of Gruumsh that is rather lame in comparison. Ilneval should have finally dealt with him and sent the orcs on a rampage.
I think Azuth is dead in 4e.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Simbul as Mystra would be lovely and as a bonus wecould have a rivalry between Elminster and Azuth for her attention, but seriously I don't get why Talos had to go in favour of Gruumsh that is rather lame in comparison. Ilneval should have finally dealt with him and sent the orcs on a rampage.I think Azuth is dead in 4e.
I thought he was 'missing' along with Necromancy god (Velashroon?) and Divination god. (Ignoring the humor of a god of divination getting lost)
Do they even have schools in 4e?
No, he's dead. He got eaten by Asmodeus. When Mystra exploded, Azuth was blown into the nine hells where Asmodeus "feasted" on him (and thus became a true deity). Velsharoon was blown to the material plane where he nearly crash-landed on Aglarond, but the Symbul did something to stop him from destroying the country by accident (by most accounts she merely diverted him, but I'm unsure) and, from what I've seen posted within the last year 'round here (about as specific as it gets right now, I'm afraid), now relies on Elminster to periodically "steal bits of magic" from someone else for her. One friend of mine mentioned that Elminster can no longer work magic (or doesn't dare for some reason), although it's unclear why.
I've forgotten what happened to Savras (the god of divination), but I think he just straight-up was obliterated by epic doom.
Also, they do have schools in 4E, but... it's kind of lame, to me. A school is just one more keyword (and several of the PH spells have been retconned to have the school keyword in them).
memorax: it actually makes perfect sense, but only if you look at "god" from a certain point of view (and not the Western one, either). A god is interested in something, they bind themselves up within it, it becomes a part of them, and they a kind of extension of it. A god of orcs dedicated to orcs who "loves" (in his own perverse way) orcs, wouldn't necessarily care about anything else. Of course, in 4E that doesn't fly, so oh well.
I agree that the Symbul as Mystra would be lovely. She's kind of a perfect "heir for Mystra", really.
As far as too many gods... well, that was something that was actually appealing about the Realms. The number and scope of their divinities, and the little things about them was kind of a fascinating backdrop.
Having the Sîmbul as the new Mystra would almost be enough to get me to look at new FR material again, just to see the reaction of the Red Wizards of Thay to that development. ^^
I think I could get behind the Simbul being Mystra, as long as her power doesn't enable her to empower or cut Spellcasting ability at a whim. I think that was my biggest grip with how Mystra was prior to the Spellplague. With her hands in the Weave, she could "by most interpretations" control who uses magic and who doesn't. No, that power is wrong wrong wrong for a simple Greater God.
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Uh, besides the terminology of a "simple greater god" being hilarious, she also is the goddess of magic. Of course granting magic would fall under her purview.
In the end with the endless complaints about too many gods, too many high level npcs and too many cities. Wotc imo had to do something. They did goo too far yet I'm glad they did it. Want to play in the pre-Spellplague FR you still can no one is coming to take your books to orevent you from doing so. If they can pull off allowing all eras of play it will be a major thing that will imo bring in FR fans. Makes me wonder though if they have to hire more staff to do so.
I was not sad to see the Mystara go. Her replacement during the time of troubles annoyed the hell out of me. Now if they can get a better replacment sucj as the Simbul I would be happy.
The problem is that it went from too many gods, cities and npcs to a scorched toril that still had too many god, cities and the nps would come if the system was supported. FR was as fleshed out as you wanted it to be. Going back to 2E stuff there was so much information on FR. I have two books of flora and fauna for Sune's sake! And No, I understand that they're not coming to take my books away (They're hard copies and not PDF's hanging out in the Cloud)But in that aspect they also aren't making more. And given the literally thousands of dollars i've spent just on game suplements and novels for FR, I think I have a right to be p!$$3d when I'm told by the company how bad my favorite game world sucks and needs to be changed.
Could they do a setting playing in all eras? Maybe. But the Spell Plague was a bad idea that was badly implemented for a setting that they had no intention of supporting beyond the two or so core books that they dumped and then moved on. They simply could have left it alone and let the authors gradually move 4E terminology into the writing as opposed to forcing it in with a hammer.
On a postive note: The Simbul as the new Mystra would rock.
Last thing on 4E- Flying mountains (Not the Netheril one, but the ones that fly for no reason) Are stupid. They were stupid in Avatar, they were stupid in 4E and they'll still be stupid whe the next hack decides it'll look soooo cool!
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What I think diffan is getting at is if you read the post Avatar novels you had Mystra acting way too human for a god. At one point she storms into Kelovmars domian and pretty much demands he cut off Cyrics clerics abilites to raise the dead. His response was if I remember correctly was "uh are you insane" followeed by "HELL NO". A god being able to take an remove magic at a whim is just too powerful. The last thing I want to see is the Simbul become a second midnight and tweaking the noses of the Red wizards. Sure it might make good reading yet imo totally innaproriate behavior for any god to do. One of the reasons why I really was not sad to see the previous Mystara go. Midnight thought she could run rampant all over Cyric and the rest of the gods basically said no to her unless she wanted to remain a god.
Tactilision I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. If a god wants to have more non-standard worhsippers why not. Limiting oneself to one race just seems well limiting for a god
As for too many gods it was not the number so much as similar portfolios and a lack of a population base to worhship so many gods. If Faerun had our population sure. It does not. Not to mention you had a god that gave up hi divine might to three other gods yet somehow was still a god. The six armed insane god of war that should have been wiped out yet was kept around. Another god (Nobian) I think who was a shadow of what he once was and was still worshipped. The FR deities needed a pruning and I'm glad that they did.
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Sure, FR had a lot of gods, but you could ignore most of the lesser ones. Offing the likes of Mystra, Azuth, Helm, Eilistraee, Vhaerun, etc. was unnecessary and stupid. Making a bunch of deities exarchs was also lame. The way they did it was even worse, having the gods act like stars of some horrible soap opera. Anyway you look at it the spellplague and all the 4E changes to FR pretty much ruined the setting. I hope they can fix things with more support for earlier timelines and hopefully an alternate timeline, so the spellplague can be a thing of the past best forgotten like New Coke.
Uh, besides the terminology of a "simple greater god" being hilarious, she also is the goddess of magic. Of course granting magic would fall under her purview.
Yea, I said simple because many greater gods are just that, simple (ie. not complex). Take Tyr, he's the god of Justice. What's so complex about that? Or Mystra being the goddess of magic. Yes, she controls magic and makes sure people don't go overboard with Epic spells. Simple. Lesser deities, they have to be more complex to fit into areas not already covered by the "Greater" gods. Torm, for the most part, was just a Good-ish version of Helm in dogma, tactics, and religion. They're different and Torm was a mortal at one point, which I feel made him more "complex". Same goes for say....Mielikki. She's more complex and unusual than Sylvanus who's just the over-god of Nature. There's about 4-5 different "nature" themed Gods that have to differentiate themselves from him, making them far more complex to his simplistic "Nature" aspect.
About Mystra's power: Say I'm......Bane. My clergy are doing something tyrinnical and taking over a city with Mystra worshippers. I don't think it's her purview to simply stop my Clerics from casting magic (that I grant them, no less) because she happens to control the Weave. That makes her the single most important and powerful deity on Faerûn besides Ao (who doesn't give a S**T anyways). And then you have her Lawful Neutral....then......Good-ish alignment? WFT is that all about? How abut she's just True Neutral, because Magic is worked for both good, evil, law, and chaos and it's her purview that it's balanced as such.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@memorax,
I read The Trial of Cyric as kind of a 'coming of age' for the deities. What Mystra did was never thought of by the other gods. If I remember correctly the logic was that then the other gods would start withdrawling their gifts from her followers in retaliation (no sunlight from Lathlander, no growing crops from Chauntea, etc).
By the end of the book, Midnight had moved more to N, and Kelembore, even more into LN territory.
Aren't the Red Wizards' higher ups all undead now under the bony thumb of Zulkir of Necromancy?
About Mystra's power: Say I'm......Bane. My clergy are doing something tyrinnical and taking over a city with Mystra worshippers. I don't think it's her purview to simply stop my Clerics from casting magic (that I grant them, no less) because she happens to control the Weave. That makes her the single most important and powerful deity on Faerûn besides Ao (who doesn't give a S**T anyways). And then you have her Lawful Neutral....then......Good-ish alignment? WFT is that all about? How abut she's just True Neutral, because Magic is worked for both good, evil, law, and chaos and it's her purview that it's balanced as such.Clerics recieve their spells directly from their deities. Mystara could not "cut them off" from magic without cooperation from those deities. Her purview is arcane magic. She can cut arcane casters off, but not divine. Clerics would be perfectly safe.
Except that a lot of people come to believe that because magic (divine and arcane) "filter" through the Weave, it passes through her domain. I'm one to agree with you, but there many (espically on Candlekeep) who might think other wise and the Lore really don't say it's one way or another.
But lets take it for granted that it's only arcane magic. Same example as above but I'm also going to have Zhentarim Skymages. As they lay seige to the city where in lie Mystra's clerics and worshippers, what's to stop Mystra from just saying "Nope" to the Skymage's power? I mean, they could be using "fly" spells and the like and she could just turn it off as it were.
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@memorax,
I read The Trial of Cyric as kind of a 'coming of age' for the deities. What Mystra did was never thought of by the other gods. If I remember correctly the logic was that then the other gods would start withdrawling their gifts from her followers in retaliation (no sunlight from Lathlander, no growing crops from Chauntea, etc).
By the end of the book, Midnight had moved more to N, and Kelembore, even more into LN territory.
Very true yet while I get she was a mortal who ascended to godhood she seemed less than stable at certain times in the books. Even then the only reason she became LN was not by choice she was forced into it by the gods who would not support her. She was kind of forced into the LN alignement imo. They also portayed her as too whiny in the novels too imo.
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Which is why the already slightly unhinged Sîmbul would be very interesting as a new Mystra.
But lets take it for granted that it's only arcane magic. Same example as above but I'm also going to have Zhentarim Skymages. As they lay seige to the city where in lie Mystra's clerics and worshippers, what's to stop Mystra from just saying "Nope" to the Skymage's power? I mean, they could be using "fly" spells and the like and she could just turn it off as it were.She could do that, but you have to remember, gods are very powerful even if they don't have a way to cut off magic. A god of weather could cause a massive storm centered on invading navies to destroy them, or a god of earth could use earthquakes, or a god of fertility could cause famines in the invaders' homelands, etc. Yes, Mystara would have a lot of power, but it doesn't seem unduly powerful when you consider that she is, after all, a goddess.
Add to that the fact that gods don't seem to pay a lot of attention to what happens to their followers in any meaningful way. Sometimes letting their followers suffer serves the gods' purposes.
To the first part: It's a reason that I've always felt the FR gods were too involved with the Realms. The Time of Troubles aside, I rather with they spent WAY less time delving directly into mortal lives and instead became a "Powerful" beings that were in the background of the setting.
To the second part: I wish it was like that more often. That the Gods where less "Hands On" as it were with the aspects of mortal lives. You don't see Boccob yaking the reigns of power from mortals (which I don't believe he has that power) in Greyhawk. Thats really where my pet peeve was with her. Her wishy-washy alignment and her direct control of what mortals can/can't do at a whim. They straighten out her disposition and make the Weave less.....important and I'm happy with a Mystra in the Realms.
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Which is why the already slightly unhinged Sîmbul would be very interesting as a new Mystra.
To be honest I rather they remove her insanity when and if they make her the new goddess of magic. If gods can elevate mortals to godhood I see no reason they could not remove her insanity. The last thing I want is Midnight version 2.0. Either make a goddess who is neutral with no agenda or none at all and leave her dead.
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A tidbit of news on Ed's new book from the DDXP seminar:
Next we have Elminster's Forgotten Realms. We basically went to Ed and said hey, why don't you take all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign and lets compile it into a book. Show us the realms as you've developed it in your campaign setting and lets get that to everybody. It's our celebration of the forgotten realms and pulling back the curtain to show you what the designer of the campaign setting has done.
And in response to a question about whether or not it would be edition neutral:
To Gary: It focuses on his specific campaign, so his individual stories might mention mechanics from different editions, the stories and lore should apply to all editions.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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A tidbit of news on Ed's new book from the DDXP seminar:
Next we have Elminster's Forgotten Realms. We basically went to Ed and said hey, why don't you take all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign and lets compile it into a book. Show us the realms as you've developed it in your campaign setting and lets get that to everybody. It's our celebration of the forgotten realms and pulling back the curtain to show you what the designer of the campaign setting has done.
And in response to a question about whether or not it would be edition neutral:
To Gary: It focuses on his specific campaign, so his individual stories might mention mechanics from different editions, the stories and lore should apply to all editions.
Cool, IIRC, "Ed's Realms" are pre time of troubles.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Which is why the already slightly unhinged Sîmbul would be very interesting as a new Mystra.To be honest I rather they remove her insanity when and if they make her the new goddess of magic. If gods can elevate mortals to godhood I see no reason they could not remove her insanity. The last thing I want is Midnight version 2.0. Either make a goddess who is neutral with no agenda or none at all and leave her dead.
IIRC, all the chosen are 'crazy' Defining crazy as "not thinking as a normal human" I don't know if godhood would fix her or not.
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IIRC, all the chosen are 'crazy' Defining crazy as "not thinking as a normal human" I don't know if godhood would fix her or not.
The last thing I want to see is another obbsessive goddess in charge of magic. I understand stand she can't stand the Red Wizards yet it's something they should remove from the character if they elevate her to godhood.
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I cant complain too much about the destruction of the forgotten realms since its what brought me to Golarion/Pathfinder
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Of course it would be too much to expect to have Ed's book begin with "And then Elminster awoke in his shower..." :p
I cant complain too much about the destruction of the forgotten realms since its what brought me to Golarion/Pathfinder
+1
Well, since Simbul would have to promote Magic in all ways, she'd have to commend 3E Red Wizards for their mercantile prowess, but since 4E made them all bad again :(
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Cool, IIRC, "Ed's Realms" are pre time of troubles.A tidbit of news on Ed's new book from the DDXP seminar:
Next we have Elminster's Forgotten Realms. We basically went to Ed and said hey, why don't you take all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign and lets compile it into a book. Show us the realms as you've developed it in your campaign setting and lets get that to everybody. It's our celebration of the forgotten realms and pulling back the curtain to show you what the designer of the campaign setting has done.
And in response to a question about whether or not it would be edition neutral:
To Gary: It focuses on his specific campaign, so his individual stories might mention mechanics from different editions, the stories and lore should apply to all editions.
I would figure pre Old Grey Box. Possibly without all of the Old Grey Box shoehorn that TSR added...
Still excited about that book!
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About Mystra's power: Say I'm......Bane. My clergy are doing something tyrinnical and taking over a city with Mystra worshippers. I don't think it's her purview to simply stop my Clerics from casting magic (that I grant them, no less) because she happens to control the Weave. That makes her the single most important and powerful deity on Faerûn besides Ao (who doesn't give a S**T anyways). And then you have her Lawful Neutral....then......Good-ish alignment? WFT is that all about? How abut she's just True Neutral, because Magic is worked for both good, evil, law, and chaos and it's her purview that it's balanced as such.Clerics recieve their spells directly from their deities. Mystara could not "cut them off" from magic without cooperation from those deities. Her purview is arcane magic. She can cut arcane casters off, but not divine. Clerics would be perfectly safe.Except that a lot of people come to believe that because magic (divine and arcane) "filter" through the Weave, it passes through her domain. I'm one to agree with you, but there many (espically on Candlekeep) who might think other wise and the Lore really don't say it's one way or another.
Unless I'm mistaken, during the Time of Troubles, when the Weave (and magic) went ... how shall I say ... to sh** ... wasn't clerical magic unaffected by the big bang? I've never once considered divine magic tied through the Weave. That's not to say I'm anywhere close to right, just that I never saw cause to believe that to be the case.
Basically, that's what they did. Tyr killing Helm got a big fan backlash, and in one of the few actual "Hey, we are listening to you!" actions of the whole "New Forgotten Realms" disaster, they decided that Torm would make a fitting replacement for Tyr.
I don't pretend to know how exactly Torm has shaken in his new role, though.
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Unless I'm mistaken, during the Time of Troubles, when the Weave (and magic) went ... how shall I say ... to sh** ... wasn't clerical magic unaffected by the big bang? I've never once considered divine magic tied through the Weave. That's not to say I'm anywhere close to right, just that I never saw cause to believe that to be the case.
You are very much mistaken...during the time of Troubles no cleric were getting spells...unless they were within a certain distance of their deities.
Then the 'genius' decided to tie the Weave into divine magic to create the BS drama with Mystra/Midnight cutting.
Personaly I though Midnight/Mystra was a awesome character...the best one created for the FR...than of course the hacks dropped the ball, messed it up, than killed her off because they did not know what to do. From her description in the Faiths and Pantheon....was pure genius showing how becoming a god should change a mortal. But than they had to write a bunch of crappy novels with her in them. And decided to promote the biggest Mary Sue ever: Cyric...well ok Drizzt might challenge him for the biggest Mary Sue...
Anyway One thing I'll say about the last 5 pages in the Grand History of the Realms did not and will not happen in my Realms.
Amen to that.
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Well, since Simbul would have to promote Magic in all ways, she'd have to commend 3E Red Wizards for their mercantile prowess, but since 4E made them all bad again :(
In 3E they were still evil. Just more subtle about it. Never liked the whole "were not bad guys anymore just business people wanting to make a book. No really" type of thing 3E FR made of the Red Wizards. Not to mention beyond the Simbul people were too accepting of the sudden change in their behavior.
Of course they were evil, but not stupid at it. They were building dependency on them and funneling the gold to purposes of their own. I can see people of Aglarond, Rasheman and other neighbouring countries remaining distrustful, but elsewhere? They were a bunch of red robed exotic magicians (of which lots were all around) that were acting politely and throwing loads of gold around.
At worst I could see them having a similar status as jews (talk about bad reputation, they were blamed for killing the Messiah, performing witchcraft and other things) in middle age society. Ostracized at occasions, but still regarded as valuable as long as they had money. And Thay had a lot of money.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The last thing I want to see is another obbsessive goddess in charge of magic. I understand stand she can't stand the Red Wizards yet it's something they should remove from the character if they elevate her to godhood.
IIRC, all the chosen are 'crazy' Defining crazy as "not thinking as a normal human" I don't know if godhood would fix her or not.
Well they'd have to, but If I recall Ed's conversations correctly, it's that all the Chosen follow Mystra's tennent of spreading magical knowlege, it's filtered through the mortal perceptions. That conflict results in the 'crazy'.
Elminster's style is to drop new spells in places
Khelben's is through ordered discovery.
Simbul's is through conflict and keeping the world 'safe' through controlling/hampering the spread of dangerous magic. (That and I think she just likes blowing stuff up.)
Etc etc.
Elminster and Khelben get into an argument about how to carry out Mystra's will in the Knights of Myth Drannor, and the Simbul has threatened to kill Elmisnter twice to prevent the spread of potentially dangerous magic.
Don't forget, the guy who founded the Cult of the Dragon and I thought Halaster was as well but I guess I was wrong.
After the forum I attended at Origins a few years ago (and after reading Blackstaff) I realized that being one of Mystra's chosen isn't really that much a blessing, as the way I see Ed's vision.
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Unless I'm mistaken, during the Time of Troubles, when the Weave (and magic) went ... how shall I say ... to sh** ... wasn't clerical magic unaffected by the big bang? I've never once considered divine magic tied through the Weave. That's not to say I'm anywhere close to right, just that I never saw cause to believe that to be the case.You are very much mistaken...during the time of Troubles no cleric were getting spells...unless they were within a certain distance of their deities.
Then the 'genius' decided to tie the Weave into divine magic to create the BS drama with Mystra/Midnight cutting.
Personaly I though Midnight/Mystra was a awesome character...the best one created for the FR...than of course the hacks dropped the ball, messed it up, than killed her off because they did not know what to do. From her description in the Faiths and Pantheon....was pure genius showing how becoming a god should change a mortal. But than they had to write a bunch of crappy novels with her in them. And decided to promote the biggest Mary Sue ever: Cyric...well ok Drizzt might challenge him for the biggest Mary Sue...
Anyway One thing I'll say about the last 5 pages in the Grand History of the Realms did not and will not happen in my Realms.
Sorry, you're right. I had the biggest mental breakdown forgetting the whole gods falling thing. What about the followers of Helm? He was never shoved out by daddy dearest.
Sorry, you're right. I had the biggest mental breakdown forgetting the whole gods falling thing. What about the followers of Helm? He was never shoved out by daddy dearest.Unless I'm mistaken, during the Time of Troubles, when the Weave (and magic) went ... how shall I say ... to sh** ... wasn't clerical magic unaffected by the big bang? I've never once considered divine magic tied through the Weave. That's not to say I'm anywhere close to right, just that I never saw cause to believe that to be the case.You are very much mistaken...during the time of Troubles no cleric were getting spells...unless they were within a certain distance of their deities.
Then the 'genius' decided to tie the Weave into divine magic to create the BS drama with Mystra/Midnight cutting.
Personaly I though Midnight/Mystra was a awesome character...the best one created for the FR...than of course the hacks dropped the ball, messed it up, than killed her off because they did not know what to do. From her description in the Faiths and Pantheon....was pure genius showing how becoming a god should change a mortal. But than they had to write a bunch of crappy novels with her in them. And decided to promote the biggest Mary Sue ever: Cyric...well ok Drizzt might challenge him for the biggest Mary Sue...
Anyway One thing I'll say about the last 5 pages in the Grand History of the Realms did not and will not happen in my Realms.
You were sorta right as in during the Time of Troubles divine magic was nottied to the weave like it is...or was...now. That was the problem with the Weave. They decided to define it....got caught in inconstincies and ended up rewriting it I think atleast 5 to 7 times during the 3.5 FR days.
As for Helm granting his followers spells during the Time of Trouble I don't remember it coming up...but I think he was punish just as well and was cut off from his followers...though I don't know.