I have been running a game for a year and a half now. My party is getting toward the point of wanting to smash bigger beings such as Demon lords and the like. The way things are they are poised to gather a bunch of Paladins and assault the Abyss... So what I wanted to know is if anyone had some advice about where I can find material about Pathfinders Abyss and Demon lords. I am not sure if it even exists yet.
Books of the Damned
First off, what level are they?
If you check out the Book of the Damned series (Lords of Chaos specifically), it has rules for Nacsent Demon Lords. Essentially, they are demigods but not quite demon lords. Paizo hasn't statted any gods, archdevils, or demon lords since they don't quite have rules for epic levels.
They are currently 15th level and I have a large string of other things on hand for them to complete. Ie side quests to gather allies and what not. I just wanted to offhandedly have this information or know where to find it for when they do. If they are planning on attacking the Abyss with an army they most likely would run into servants of say one of the minor lords on the fist layer of the Abyss that wants to bust up their plan before Paladins and what not are knocking on their door.
Thank you for the help everyone. Its appreciated.
3.5/3.0 Book of Vile Darkness, and the Fiendish Codex books can be looked at also if you want stats.
Also try to get D&D: Savage Tide that was in Dungeon mag.
I'd also play the PCs off somewhat. The bulk of the demon lords are great schemers and will probably leave some powerful minion hanging and lead the PCs astray by thinking it's all over.
Creative Director
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If you're looking for actual stats for demon lords, there's two sources that I'd suggest.
For versions of the demon lords at a range of CR 20–23, check out Fiendish Codex I. For versions of most of these same demon lords at a range of CR 24–32, check out the various Demonomicon articles published in Dragon Magazine (we've got PDF versions of most of those for sale here at Paizo.com).
Being the one who wrote those stats for both versions, I'm of course a bit biased...
If you're looking for actual stats for demon lords, there's two sources that I'd suggest.
For versions of the demon lords at a range of CR 20–23, check out Fiendish Codex I. For versions of most of these same demon lords at a range of CR 24–32, check out the various Demonomicon articles published in Dragon Magazine (we've got PDF versions of most of those for sale here at Paizo.com).
Being the one who wrote those stats for both versions, I'm of course a bit biased...
And don't forget the best article of them all, the final Demonomicon of Iggwilv article from The Dragon (issue #359) that gives guidelines for creating your own demon lords.
Plus, if you want to go whole hog, pull in some of the epic feats from the 3.5e SRD. Just be careful with those, they really can change the game significantly. Stay away from the rest of the epic SRD stuff, it's a bit of a black hole.
I have a copy of Fiendish Codex I that I am going to be using for some of the stuff though what prompted me to come and ask the question was that it seems to me, that the CR's especially of evil creatures when fighting a Paladin are hard to judge considering how much better they are at the job of destroying evil they are. It very well could be me just not gauging things right though it seems as if an evil opponent against a Paladin is proportionally 1-2 CR's lower of a combat for the whole party.
@Lincoln Hills- I have been debating that for awhile actually since the Daemons came out in Bestiary 2. Though my reservations on that is that introducing other groups is a decently large undertaking. They are all decently specific in what they are out to achieve and adding in another group of baddies gets very complicated. Currently they are in an area based roughly off of "The Demon Within" game module. Published by Paizo. Which has given me lots of Demons and options as well as a gate that the party has decided they want to close. So that is why I wanted to use Demon lords.
I have a copy of Fiendish Codex I that I am going to be using for some of the stuff though what prompted me to come and ask the question was that it seems to me, that the CR's especially of evil creatures when fighting a Paladin are hard to judge considering how much better they are at the job of destroying evil they are. It very well could be me just not gauging things right though it seems as if an evil opponent against a Paladin is proportionally 1-2 CR's lower of a combat for the whole party.
Don't fall into the trap of throwing one BBEG vs. a party. Not only does the opponent get creamed by the action economy, they get double-creamed if there's a paladin in the party.
Paladins are one of the reasons BBEGs surround themselves with many, many low-CR minions. Sure, that paladin's got that smite, but it'll get harder and harder to keep it in their pocket unused as the party keeps getting hammered by other demons.
Yeah I have learned that one from experience sadly. Especially with a paladin it becomes obvious after awhile that the party vs a BBEG ends with one near unharmed party and one very dead BBEG.
Yep this is also why I asked the question above about if content was out for specific ones for Pathfinder. Kind of trying to trim down thematically what said Demon lord uses as a servant. For instance you have Jubilex who uses Omox demons. Not all of the lords have only one type of servant though was looking to thin it down some since with all the bestiaries and the Fiendish Folio there are a bunch. Themed minions just make more sense. Though that is not to say that Demon Lord X wouldn't have more than a handful of Quasits, Babau,and many thousands of Dretches as well. It is merely a nice assist if you can find something that leads you in a certain direction as a baseline.
Now I do have what I need to do that just have to wait for the pcs to get there. *Watches the clock evilly*
Yep this is also why I asked the question above about if content was out for specific ones for Pathfinder. Kind of trying to trim down thematically what said Demon lord uses as a servant. For instance you have Jubilex who uses Omox demons. Not all of the lords have only one type of servant though was looking to thin it down some since with all the bestiaries and the Fiendish Folio there are a bunch. Themed minions just make more sense. Though that is not to say that Demon Lord X wouldn't have more than a handful of Quasits, Babau,and many thousands of Dretches as well. It is merely a nice assist if you can find something that leads you in a certain direction as a baseline.
Now I do have what I need to do that just have to wait for the pcs to get there. *Watches the clock evilly*
You can always change the names and alignments of some devils and daemons to make them fit, if they're thematic to your demon lord of choice. Making up new demons is fun too, especially since they can look like just about anything.
Remember that each demon lord will have followers who won't take kindly to this sort of thing, so don't be afraid to get non-demonic enemies in there too.
A cult here and there is a good incentive to keep moving and fighting or to be better about hiding you intentions. Al up to how the PCs read being jumped by cultists lol.
Yep this is also why I asked the question above about if content was out for specific ones for Pathfinder. Kind of trying to trim down thematically what said Demon lord uses as a servant. For instance you have Jubilex who uses Omox demons. Not all of the lords have only one type of servant though was looking to thin it down some since with all the bestiaries and the Fiendish Folio there are a bunch. Themed minions just make more sense. Though that is not to say that Demon Lord X wouldn't have more than a handful of Quasits, Babau,and many thousands of Dretches as well. It is merely a nice assist if you can find something that leads you in a certain direction as a baseline.
Now I do have what I need to do that just have to wait for the pcs to get there. *Watches the clock evilly*
There definitely is, in any case ... the Book of the Damned talks about who the typical followers are of many of the demon lords.