ItoSaithWebb |
Let say your character was trying to remember details about a character he saw but didn't at the time make a perception check. Now in reality we take in information all the time with out needing to be conscious about because our minds filter that stuff out which at the time doesn't seem important at the time, but with enough concentration one could recall that filtered information by visualizing the event again.
Are there any existing rules for this?
If there is not then the only thing I can think of is perhaps a retroactive perception check but at a penalty. Or perhaps a concentration check but that doesn't work very well with non-casters.
I ask this because it could be useful in identifying someone or remembering the layout of complex or dungeon.
thenobledrake |
I tend to just call for the check that could have been made during the event the character is attempting to remember.
No penalty that wouldn't have applied if the player made the check "back then," and no different check which might end up making a character better at remembering things he might have noticed than actually noticing them in first place.
Kaisoku |
People can be better at noticing things from events they remember, than spotting it in that instant they had to look at it.
Usually it's people with trained or natural eidetic memory though, so it's REALLY not that common. Arguably (and for the sake of fiction, why not), hypnosis could help with this as well.
However, if something is being hidden (via stealth or sleight of hand), then it should be opposed by the perception skill.
I'd go with a perception check with a starting DC of when it happened. Then add penalties for how long ago it was in their memory (maybe a +2/-2 depending on how strident the memory was... as in, someone who happened to bump into you in the market vs your torturer asking you questions face to face, etc).
I'd then add in your Intelligence bonus to offset that penalty.
An eidetic mind feat or trait would allow you to apply the check without penalty for time, and just allow you to add your Int bonus. Sure, it might make it so you can be really good at noticing things... but only well after the fact as long as you require it to take at least a few rounds or minutes to use your eidetic memory ability. Maybe 1d4 round if the event happened within the last 24 hours or last rest, or 1 minute if it was longer than that (to distinguish between short term and long term memory).
Seems like a good rule to add to a Gumshoe, or Sherlock Holmes style of investigative campaign.
*edit*
As this is the rules section, and not the house rules/suggestions section, then I'll just put an addendum that there isn't really a rule to cover this, so probably just a straight Int check with a GM arbited DC range similar to what Maxximulius suggested would cleave closest to the RAW.
karkon |
I tend to just call for the check that could have been made during the event the character is attempting to remember.
No penalty that wouldn't have applied if the player made the check "back then," and no different check which might end up making a character better at remembering things he might have noticed than actually noticing them in first place.
I would go the other way. I would make them do a perception with a higher DC because they are trying to remember.
deusvult |
I agree with the idea of stat checks, but I'd reserve an Int check only to recall things that the character would have thought was important at the time.
I use a Wisdom check however for trying to recall something that would not have been important at the time.
Example:
During a murder mystery adventure, the characters discover a bloody glove. Is it a wis or int check to see if they recall that it matches the Butler's one glove, who they met earlier?
Int, if they knew they're looking for a murderer.
Wis, if they only had reason to notice the butler's missing glove because it was out of the ordinary that he only had one on.
Kaisoku |
Regarding the side topic of how important this clue might have been...
If it was a choke-point in the storyline, then yeah... I'd probably not be too hard on the players. Ability checks are wonderfully random, what with the incredibly low bonus (even with a crazy good stat) and DCs based on a 1-20 range for the roll.
I think the Three Clue Rule article gives a good perspective on how to plan to avoid a choke-point in the first place.
Why three? Because the PCs will probably miss the first; ignore the second; and misinterpret the third before making some incredible leap of logic that gets them where you wanted them to go all along.
deusvult |
Not to labor the point, but I didn't really say whether I'd use Int/Wis was based on how important the thing being remembered was.
It's based on whether the character, when exposed to the thing being remembered, had reason to be actively making a note of it or not.
Player's character is in some NPC's private office: "I'm carefully reading the list I found in his desk and making note of anything suspicious."
Player several game days later tries to recall one of the names on the list that was read. Int check.
Player several game days sees a NPC riding a flying carpet. Wis check to see if the rug appears same/similar to the one in the office where the list of names was found.
That's the difference. Wisdom is more than just Piety (divine casting stat) and Willpower.. it's equal part mental fitness with Int as Dex is to Strength in physical fitness.
thenobledrake |
thenobledrake wrote:I would go the other way. I would make them do a perception with a higher DC because they are trying to remember.I tend to just call for the check that could have been made during the event the character is attempting to remember.
No penalty that wouldn't have applied if the player made the check "back then," and no different check which might end up making a character better at remembering things he might have noticed than actually noticing them in first place.
The only reason I would not do that is because it feels, to me, like a punishment for the player(s) not asking for a roll to notice all (currently insignificant or otherwise) details about every room/person/object they come across.
Much like I interpret "we proceed down the hall cautiously," to mean that someone is checking for traps, everyone is listening and looking for danger, and so long as it is social acceptable to be seen with weapons drawn in the location that everyone has a weapon drawn.
Sure, the player might not have thought of or mentioned all those things - but his character probably would have.