Hang in there it gets better i promise you,
one suggestions is this if your wizard wants to do the whole statue into the pot of boiling oil thing he can but it will be a but ton of rolls and very small chance of success you have to be dominant in a good way let them know you follow the rules and the rules say this. don't be afraid to challenge them some of the best dm's i know won't let me get away with crazy hair brained schemes and i know If i fail i die.
also read the book read the book, and use us here has a reference when i started to dm in the mid 90's i never even thought of a place like this forum board where i could ask questions I was asking my players.
yep that is the basic dm's frustration and sometimes it gets insane trust me the old saying is sometimes lava is just lava and sometimes the door is just a door there is a web comic but i couldn't find it.
That sounds like an awesome way to deal with a hobgoblin chief! Sorry, I really like creative solutions to problems, and not many of the DM's I've played with would allow such things as 'anything other than attack the monster.' I personally think creativity should be rewarded as long as it doesn't get horribly horribly out of hand.
As to the second issue, you can still have silliness in a serious campaign. Quirky NPC's, while being the only thing I can think of right now, is a great way of doing this. I once ran a campaign that I had an NPC lined up for who was a 50th Level Wizard with a 50 Int and knew absolutely everything. He was also totally insane and would randomly go on tangents that have nothing to do with anything. He also had a full copy of the 3.5 core books, written in some archaic language. (English is not Common.) Heck, at one point in the plot he was supposed to do a scrying spell and botch it so bad that he scryed on the players sitting at the table instead. Just think about how you can make an NPC interesting, and if it's in an amusing fashion? Woot. I'm not sure how helpful this is, but it's what I've got.
But yeah, if you have any questions, as Lobolusk said: come here and ask. There're loads of experianced gamers who would love to answer them. :)
You can either offer to run the game you want to run, and players that disrupt or don't like it can find another game, or give up on what you originally wanted and run something you and the group can both enjoy. The dm and players have to be on the same page, or they both end up frustrated.
As far as not putting in the basic effort to complete a character sheet, or to go to the prd webpage if they're too cheap to buy a corebook, why should you make an effort if they don't.
Although it's great that you're willing to flow with out of the box ideas and not stifle creativity as a storyteller, the other part of the DM gig is rules referee. If they're trying something too ridiculous or effective, feel free to tell them it is a great idea, but in this case it won't work (either because it breaks the rules, or because it breaks the encounter so make up a reason why even if you didn't include it while designing).
Cash is hard to come by and the rulebooks are expensive. But there are ways that don't require the expense. Use the SRD rules if you have laptops or tablets and an internet connection. Ask for books for birthdays or Christmas (or whatever).
This may sound like politically correct platitudes, but diversity in a group is a benefit, though as you've learned, it comes with challenges. Everyone doesn't have to be serious in the game, just serious about the game for it to succeed. I have a group of friends that I've been playing with for 33 years. Some of them are serious role-players, some are competitive, some are jokers, and some are hack-and-slashers. What is important is how the group interacts as a group, as people. If they are compatible as companions, then the rest will work itself out. Do you really think a bunch of forty-something guys have faithfully assembled each week for decades because the game is just that good?
It's good for players to try creative things to overcome challenges, but you have to establish boundaries. Acting upon other creatures and even objects have well-established rules, though you'll always find gaps. If you want to push someone around, you have to bull-rush them, drag them, or some other combat maneuver. Inanimate objects aren't good at combat maneuvers, and magic is less effective than flesh when attempt to accomplish these maneuvers (with certain Bibgy exceptions). Items have hit points and hardness that must be overcome to "break" them. You can't easily overcome the hardness of a stone statue with magic missiles, and if you can, it will probably take a while. Then what are the odds of it falling in the right direction? Any reasonably intelligent creature would notice that you're chipping away at the statue's base and move away from it to avoid being crushed, or throw its weight against it to push it in your direction. Let them be creative, but you be creative too, and make things hard to do, just as they are in real life.
Keep in mind that monsters are typically interested in winning, not just providing a challenge to the party. They will cheat, misdirect and bamboozle just like the party does. Teach your party early on that whatever they bring to the game, the monsters can use as well. Players are always trying to find a rule or a gap in the rules that allows them to have a significant advantage. That's okay if they've invested the feats and skills necessary, but we DM's need them to be as careful a guardian of game balance as we are. We do that by giving them incentive to self-regulate, and by limiting their actions in a reasonable manner.
Example: if someone swings on a rope into the middle of a throng of enemy soldiers, they might find spears set against their charge, they'll be grappled by several soldiers right away, and stabbed repeatedly for their silliness, that is if they don't fail their DC15 climb check and fall flat on their back and render themselves unconscious.
It's hard to know all the tricks starting off, which is why most people play in other DM's campaigns for a while before taking the plunge. But when we started, there were no other DM's, so we had to learn the hard way. It can be done and it's really a ton of fun as well, so just keep at it and you'll be looking back at these times as some of the best some day.
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Having a PC or laptop using srd sites (google: Pathfinder SRD) can let people look up abilities faster. Don't allow rules discussions in combat make the call and deal with it later. Remember most spells target creatures and most obstacles are objects. As for encounters; A boss with 5 blockers can be a good challenge, using terrain effectiviely (archers on a ledge, difficult terrain, dangerous terrain, narrow terrain etc...).
Make sure to have fun, it will trickle down to the players.
I think the best advice I can offer is to take the long view. If playing Pathfinder and other games really hits the spot for you like it does so many of us, this isn't your last campaign, these might not be your best or favorite players, etc. Try to keep the perspective that on through high school and college you will develop some fantastic memories and make lifelong friends, and eventually meet some folk that will really challenge you in a positive way.
I dunno how to beat the stutter issue, but maybe you don't have to. Your players think enough of you, or are too chicken to run a game themselves, to leave you calling the shots. Either they aren't bothered by it, or they look past it for the fun you bring them. Either way, you should gain confidence. I don't know if confidence helps stuttering or not (seems I've heard that a few times but could be folk therapy). Maybe gaming will help get you past that like nothing else.
When other players don't ever buy books, or similar challenges threaten you comfort, try to turn them into your advantage instead. Fewer books means less power creep. If players won't buy books, make it clear they can't use mechanics from books no one has. Master the rules in front of you. Set the expectation now that pirated books or "i read it at the store but don't have it on me" doesn't fly at your table. Overall, recognize that people without the money to buy books are looking to have a great time on a budget, and gaming offers that like nothing else. People who refuse to buy books when others can provide them instead are table fillers. Welcome so long as everyone is having fun. Maybe not lasting additions to your table, though. I'm not saying, and never have, no books = no play. I'm saying make use of what everyone brings to the table, and be aware that eventually, people who can't be bothered to buy a book or play in someone else's style for a bit might not be folk you want to build your fun around.
You're new, and letting people walk all over your encounters is fine. After more than 20 years of GMing different games, and being reasonably well thought of as GMs go, I STILL struggle with player who can shred my intentions, and I still struggle with core practices that I want so much to be flawless at. But no one is perfect and we will play games as imperfectly as we do other things. So focus on fun, take the long view, and be tough. You've decades of great relationships, memories and stories ahead of you.
And, as some might predict, I am gonna advise you to attend a few small conventions, and one big one. Come to Gen Con 2012 and play at a table during the Iron GM world championships. Almost without a doubt, you'll be seated in front of someone you can learn something from. There's no shortage of regular competitors at that event that can, in one five hour game, fill your young brain with ideas, habits, and techniques that will have your home players telling you "I didn't know gaming could be like this."
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Dont be afraid to change the terrain. Makes a huge difference no matter what level the PCs are. Take away the lights. Even natural darkness is a giant pain in the butt. Even if they have a light source that brings new things to bare on them. Monsters or the bad guys will target the light. They cant spend all their time relighting it :) Water can slow them down. Ever try running in water? Even water only up to your ankles or knees? Tons of low level monsters who can run in water/swim not to mention swim. Just haing an archer across the way and having the pcs trying to cross without becomeing pin cushions. You can expand on just those two examples :) Im not saying create a death trap either. thats not fun at all.
Like the other guys have been saying on here. read the books and keep drawing from your imagination. Your doing good. Ask for help. Ask the group for dues of like a buck every session. Tell them its for getting books at the end of the year. I know that seems far off, but if you played once a week with 6-8 players at a modest buck you will have books for everyone come the end of the year easily.
Figure out who really wants to play the game you are DMing and whos just being there because their best friend is doing it. Nothing sucks more then having four players really into the game and have that fifth guy who shows up to half the sessions and when he does show up he disrupts the game half the night be it with jokes and you guys are rolling on the floor. Eventually you or a majority of your players will get sick of it and that will be the end of the game. No one likes everytime they do something with their character to have the goofball mess it up in game. Talking to the King is a classic scenerio that ends in DMs wishing ruin and crying at the same time.
Things will get better in time. Just keep plucking at it. Despite what you may think about organizing and being in charge you have taken that mantle upon yourself already. By asking for help and doing what you have done already. Some people are players and some are more than that. You just happen to be part of the DMing side. At least thats the way I am seeing it.
I'm going to give some (maybe) unpopular advice here.
My advice is this: Run an AP. or a module. or something you didn't personally design.
I don't mean to imply that your personal creation is somehow subpar, first time DMs often have eyes bigger than their stomachs, as the saying goes. The paizo folks pay professional people a fair amount of money to create settings rich in backstory, with encounters balanced well for a normal party. The experience you get from running these sort of things is invaluable towards creating your own. It's very hard to make an awesome world from scratch.
What this does for you is a few things. 1. It stops your party from saying 'we want exploding narwhals'. If they understand that you're running a module, they will be far more willing to play whats in front of them, because its far more 'set in stone' than something you're making up on the fly. It provides direction and motivation for players in that sense. The other thing, is the details of the lands and such are already fleshed out, so you don't have to wrack your brain when your players ask you about them. someone has already done that for you.
Secondly, the encounters done in the APs and such will show you how well designed (for the most part, they aren't perfect) encounters can be run, and are usually reasonably creative and interesting. The little tips and tricks you can pick up from them can be used later in your other endeavors. You also don't have to worry about the 'am I doing it wrong?' factor. Nope, its done right, because its done by the game designers. Paizo APs also tend to provide a mix of RP and combat, so you can enjoy the run with a diverse party, while spending your time making the changes necessary for your players. spending 2 hours to make small changes that will greatly make the game more fun for your players is much better than spending 2 hours making a much larger world without those details in it. It lets you focus your creative energies, without having to do a giant task.
Third, it will let you focus more energy on a bit of system mastery, which tends to be important to a lot of DMs. If you feel the rules are guidelines, you can skip this section. If you crave a deeper understanding of how things work and want to adjudicate things according to the rules instead of creativity, read on. Spending less time building a game world will let you spend more time looking at the encounters. You can check every ability, see what they do, how they might interact, all that good stuff. You will learn faster how things work, and be able to make fairer calls for your players.
That being said, beyond that very general advice, I have a few specific things that I've picked up that may help.
1. No rules arguing at the table. If a rule if questioned, you can make a call on the fly, and if there's an issue, your players and you can look up the rule after the game. This promotes the flow of the game, and stops it from getting bogged down.
2. You are the one making the effort here. This means its your world, and your game. Your players are free to play or not, but while they choose to, you are in charge, which means that asking for things like properly prepared character sheets before the game begins are not negotiable. You put many hours of work into this, and a lot of your frustration comes from the fact that they don't appear to want to put in any effort at all (trust me, been there).
2a. The Pathfinder PRD and SRD are both free, available online, and contain all the core books. This means there is no excuse not to have a character ready when the game starts, and to know what ones abilities do, because it's all there, for free. No $$ needed.
3. Rule 0. The DM is always right. While you want to make your players right, this is not a democracy. You are in change.
4. Rule of Cool: If it sounds awesome, there's nothing wrong with bending the rules to allow it to happen. After all, see Rule 0.
Hope that helps!
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Wow; here's such a lot to cover from that first post, and I'm way too tired to cover it in the detail it needs.
Here's to bookmarking this thread, for later, when I'm more awake.
Welcome to the boards, Cadwgan. I don't know how long you've been a reader before you put finger to keyboard, but I can say, there's a lot of good advice been given so far, and many helpful people on these forums, who may have covered specific problems, such as balancing encounters, believable world-building, and personality clashes around the table.
One resource you may not be aware of is that the PF rules are available online, both in the official PRD, and the fan-moderated PFSRD.
I tend to use the latter, as it incorporates much third-party material, though I can understand if you'd rather stick to official material for now.
Both are easily searchable and material can be cut&pasted to your game notes, or to a home-made character crib-sheet.
There should be no reason for anyone not to be able to complete their PC before the session, or not know what their abilities do.
Before going into each of your points in detail, I do have to ask about one part of your intro; you say you and your friends have been discussing having a gaming group for two years, yet only one of them managed to obtain a rulebook, in all that time? They know you hate public speaking, yet you have to be the GM? What gives there?
How was the responsibility for this decided? Did you volunteer? Or were you 'volunteered'?
You might want to see if a gaming shop near you has organized play regularly. This might take some of the pressure off if you and your friends hit that everyonce in awhile.
Lobolusk is right many things are posible but they do require rolling and knowing how the "physics" of the game work. Take the situation you mentioned with the stature and the oil:
1- The statue will be made of something that has a hardness rating and will need hit points if it is already noted. So when he shoots his magic missle and does damage how much damage after taking into account the hardness does it do. You will find similar ratings on doors to break them down or sundering weapons. Chances are 1 magic missle is not going to do the job. This means more than one round unless the wizard is high enough shoot more than one a round.
2- Once the statue breaks what direction does if fall. Yes the magic missle hits precisely but stone does not break precisely so he gets to make an attack roll be nice and let his intellegence bonus be the attack modifier. This is the big reward for his creativity an extra attack. Now he is rolling a called shot on the vat of boiling oil. So you will want to figure the AC of the vat. Because he is not just trying to hit it he is hoping to hit precisely so as to knock it over it is a called shot so he gets a -4 (he probably should get an additional -4 to hit unless he has a feat in exotic weapon proficiency falling statue but we are trying to reward the creativity). If he suceeds he has knocked over the statue into the vat. I would treat the oil in the vat like splash damage. So if the Hobgob is in the same square it is likely he is standing in or or has some oil on him. If not the vat spills in 1d4 random directions.
3- I am assumeing the only fire in the room is heating up the vat. It is not going to automatically catch fire. If enough of it hits the fire it may but it is not a foregone conclusion. Rather than forcing another attack roll I would pull a percentage out of thin air depending on the size of the fire, the amount of oil, how much help the party needs or doesn't need in the fight. Lets say ts a big fire for a large vat so a big spalsh. In this case 50% chance the oil will catch fire. Even if this fails. On his next turn he can ignite the oil which may or may not have splashed on the hobgob.
4- Broken statue pieces are very possible. Does the spell actually allow them to lift and throw the pieces with significant force. 25 pounds per caster level is the spell description It is very possible that that the pieces of the statue are too heavy for him depending on level. But I would roll 1d8 to detrimine how many pieces the statue broke up into. Divide the total weight of the statue (you will have to come up with a weight based on size and material) by that number. This will give you the "average weight" of a chunck of the statue. If he can lift the rubble with telekinesis then he can perform the bull rush.
So as you can see this is possible but it forces you to be on your toes as a DM and it makes such shennanigans less powerful and therefore more rare. If they are that creative all the time you will want to make sure you have these kind of details on your environments. Now if this was the whole parties plan of action and they had planned it out I would make it a lot easier. Not automatically but because more party rescource is being used there is more chance of sucess. For instance the barbarian pushes the statue over into the vat. With the rogue making sure anything harrassing the barbarian has someone to answer to. As the barbarian guides the statues crash into the vat which causes a wave of oil the wizard can hit it with a torch or burning hands.
Oh as to the no book problem. Libraries carry almost any book. It might take a few days but you can get your hands on some. The PRD PSRD have been mentioned. I have an app with the PRD material very handy. My phone is Android so I am sure there is already a Ipod, Iphone or Ipad version.
While this isn't the best solution, you could also get used 3.5 books for cheap. While there are problems doing this with the rulebooks, it still works great for adventures.
As far as the "How it should have gone" problem, don't worry about it. You've got one issue, and that's "Are they having fun?" If everyone is having a good time, then you're doing it right.
You may want to check out Martin Ralya's Treasure Tables blog. It's not live any more, but he's still got a ton of great advice posted.
The biggest, most important that every GM, young and old, has to follow is one simple word that even experienced GMs sometimes don't do... communication!
It's important to get on a talking basis with your players. How do they like the game? What problems do they or you have with it? How can you come up with a compromise together? Establishing good communication is the first step to running a really memorable game.
Also, here's the link for the rules of Pathfinder for free:
www.d20pfsrd.com
And it's legal because of the OGL license. It has the Core, APG, Ultimate Magic and combat.
+2 or -2 on everything (courtesy of 4ed:)
The biggest, most important that every GM, young and old, has to follow is one simple word that even experienced GMs sometimes don't do... communication!
It's important to get on a talking basis with your players. How do they like the game? What problems do they or you have with it? How can you come up with a compromise together? Establishing good communication is the first step to running a really memorable game.
Yeah, +1 to this. I would set some time aside each session to discuss. You only need to ask three questions. What did you like, what did you not like, and what ideas do you have for next session?
the other real good suggestion i have is join a different game outside the one you are dming and watch the dm and see how he does it maybe ask him if you can sit inane watch even help this helps to develop your own skill.
Hello! I'm a new DM, new to table-top gaming general actually. I'm 15, and some friends and I decided to finally start doing the campaign we've been telling each other we're going to do for about two years now. The problem is; I have to DM, I HATE being in charge like this, I have a horrid stutter, I don't enjoy talking.
James Earl Jones has a bad stutter. He dealt with it by talking more. By being more engaged with literature. He has one of the most sought after voices in the world. Don't let your stuttering stop you.
Creating dungeons, NPCs, and plotlines is wonderful, I LOVE world-building, I just don't deal well with the party. There's a few key issues I'm having with the party however, and I need some advice.
This is one of the most rewarding parts of being a GM.
---The Party refuses to buy books--
There's only 2 out of 5 people, (myself included) that own rulebooks.
We have 2 copies of the core rulebook, one is my own, and one of the other players went and got one, I purchased a game mastery guide, and a bestiary, but the 2 copies of the core rulebook really slows down sessions, people are always asking to pause so they can barrow one of the copies, it really bogs combat down. What's more, 2 of them don't have their characters completed, they don't fill out their character sheets other than the name, class, level, and core stats.
If there is computer access at the table, you can use the PRD for quick reference or even just purchase the CRB in PDF form. Also, discuss with the others about collecting money from them, $5/week, and you can use that to buy another copy. Do that until everyone has a copy. Don't forget that you can buy used copies or even use Amazon for inexpensive ones.
As for the players not being prepared, if you use software like Hero Lab or other character creation software (some of the free stuff is actually pretty good), you can help them be more prepared.
--The Diversity of the party--
The maturity range of the party is incredibly vast, I have one player that would like for me to expand on the detailed history of the war that ravaged the land the party is currently in. However I have another player that wants to "bonk the man on the head and get drunk". When I sat down to create our party's adventures, I was getting inspiration from A Song of Ice and Fire, The Wheel of Time, and the Warhammer universe, however, half my party wants flying narwhals and exploding monkeys. Some of the party wants the really role-playing intensive campaign I had planned on, and some of them want to run around like Monty Python.
You can do a lot of this for the same party. It can be a challenge but it can be done. Look into old 1st Edition adventures like "Dungeonland," "The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror," and "Through the Looking Glass." These aren't that hard to convert I'm sure the community is more than willing to help.
--The Party is steam-rolling through encounters--
Something is wrong with the way I'm building encounters, and I have no idea what. No matter how many goblins I throw at them, or twists, or traps, the party seems to cut them down with ease. I never intended a Dark Souls level of difficulty, but I wanted death to be a very real threat. It's also hard because my party is really, really, creative. If I include a statue in a room, the Mage will shoot magic missiles at the base, then knock it over onto the pot of boiling oil, knocking it over into the Hob-Goblin chief, setting him on fire, then using telekinesis to pick up the rubble, and sling sections of it at him, knocking him into a pit.
First, be more familiar with the rules. If you have to look something up, then do it. For example, Magic Missile can't target the pot of boiling oil since it isn't a creature. Also, if one of the character has telekinesis, a 5th level spell, then you probably need something tougher than goblins and hobgoblins. They need level appropriate challenges.
Oh as to the no book problem. Libraries carry almost any book. It might take a few days but you can get your hands on some. The PRD PSRD have been mentioned. I have an app with the PRD material very handy. My phone is Android so I am sure there is already a Ipod, Iphone or Ipad version.
Which App are you using?