Magic Missile question during a PFS game - assistance please!

[Odzmye]

So I need some opinions on an interesting situation I ran into recently.

I was DMing PFS #2-15: Shades of Ice—Part I: Written in Blood for a house game.

Spoiler:

During the bar room brawl, one of my players wanted to use a bottle of hard spirits found behind the bar as a flammable device.

Unfortunately, this particular Sorcerer hadn't taken Spark or any other named flame spell. Her questions was this - would Magic Missile provide an ignition source? The plan was going to be to hit a thug with the thrown bottle. If it broke, he would be doused, and the Magic Missile would ignite him the next round.

Having only played/DMed PFS for a little over a year, I was at a loss. Now I've been DMing other RPG's, most notably the 'most popular role playing game... yada yada' since the early 80's. But even with that experience, I was still hesitant.

As DMs luck would have it, the throw failed to connect, and the issue of ignition was delayed - after the game I honestly said I wasn't sure what would happen. I've trolled the posts a bit, and can't really find a reference.

I ask you, my brothers in arms, to come to my aid and resolve this 'burning' question. Talk amongst yourselves...

[Sniggevert]

Personally, I'd rule no. A magic missile is a force effect. It has no fire/heat/spark to it IMO.

EDIT:And this is probably more of rules discussion question too...

[Arazyr]

Magic Missile is a force effect, so no ignition. That would require something that involves fire or heat.

[Joe Jungers]

Props for player creativity, but I'd have to say no.

Magic missiles are creations of Force, not Fire.

<Ninja'd x2>

[Fromper]

Agreed with the above. Magic Missile has never been fire based.

[LoreKeeper]

No, as the force effect wouldn't be able to ignite the liquor.

I would, however, be generous enough to allow him to throw the bottle and use magic missile to break it just as it is close to the target's face - to blind him, a la Dirty Trick maneuver. I'd rule this as a full-round action, possibly taken over two rounds (i.e. it uses the standard action to start and then next round to complete the full-round action, see page 186 in Core rules). That's probably not time-efficient enough for the player, but that's what I'd allow.

[TwilightKnight]

LoreKeeper wrote:

I would, however, be generous enough to allow him to throw the bottle and use magic missile to break it just as it is close to the target's face - to blind him, a la Dirty Trick maneuver.

Personally, I would not allow this. The Magic Missile specifically targets creatures, not objects. I recall this being a huge issue in 3.5 and there was clarification made that it could not be used to target objects. I assume this still holds true in PFRPG. Otherwise, it would open the game up for using Magic Missile to, unerringly, target ropes being climbed, shooting bow strings, targeting objects being held, etc. IMO, if you fail to designate a creature as the target the spell fails to function. But the caster would know better and would not attempt to use it that way. YMMV.

[Nickademus42]

What Bob said.

(I remember the days of 2nd Ed where players did all those nasty things with Magic Missile.. /headache).

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Wow, I have played D&D since 1st edition and never was I in a group that tried to use magic missile for anything other than what the rules allowed, automatically hitting an enemy.

Also, it has always been a purely magic attack, no fire, no spark, no elements at all.

[Ross Byers]

I moved this to the appropriate forum, and added a spoiler tag.

[Gnomezrule]

Is energy sustitution a meta magic feat in PF or allowed.

Honestly I would say yes . . . let it happen because it rewards the creativity . . . then just before the next session say, "oh I made a mistake last week. Turns out magic missle is a force effect not fire." It gives them the props for creativity. Encourages such creativity in the future.

[Beldhyr]

I'd let it happen only in two cases:

1. The sorcerer was fire-themed. (Which wouldn't make sense, since she has no fire spells. So, if it were a fire-themed wizard who didn't have any fire spells prepared, perhaps.)

2. The sorcerer had another element-based spell she could use, rather than a force spell. Electricity would make sense. Cold or Acid would not make as much sense, but I'd at least allow some limited energy substitution to reward creativity. Spellcraft check to manipulate the spell.

3. Ok, maybe 3 cases. The caster aligns herself along some iron object to cause the force missile to scrape along it, producing sparks. Spellcraft check to manipulate the spell. Or, the spellcaster casts the spell in a way to deal no damage--essentially miscasting the spell to miss, and instead to spiral into a stone or iron object. Again, spellcraft, perhaps a to-hit roll, no damage or item breakage.

But that's a long shot, and perhaps provides too many options for creative use for sorcerers? After all, spell selection is supposed to be limiting.

[TClifford]

I guess technically, an Elemental [Fire] Sorc could change the energy type of the Magic Missile from [Force] ro [Fire] using his Bloodline Arcana:

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell's type to match the type of your bloodline.

Problem is that the typical energy types are: Cold, Electricity, Fire and Sonic. Force has typically been considered kinda non-energy type.

[LazarX]

LoreKeeper wrote:

No, as the force effect wouldn't be able to ignite the liquor.

I would, however, be generous enough to allow him to throw the bottle and use magic missile to break it just as it is close to the target's face - to blind him, a la Dirty Trick maneuver. I'd rule this as a full-round action, possibly taken over two rounds (i.e. it uses the standard action to start and then next round to complete the full-round action, see page 186 in Core rules). That's probably not time-efficient enough for the player, but that's what I'd allow.

Forget about magic missle not being that kind of effect. You simply can't do what you're describing in one round and break the rules that massively regarding action economy "just because it's cool".