Screwing over Asmodeus (Insincere Cleric)


Advice

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Catharis yes, they will be going to hell. However 1: you get a great deal of power while alive and 2: the better you serve the more useful you might be in hell. Always best to promote the faithful and useful first.

I agree with weables, the domain grab bag is never a great way to make a character, unless you want to play a cleric of that god.

Scarab Sages

Weables wrote:
I think this is the unfortunate result of trying to pick a cleric by grabbing the domains you want for mechanical reasons and trying to back them up by stretching the roleplaying to fit. You may find it easier to go the other way around. Clerics just don't work that well if you go this route

Read what I said above. I picked the RP aspect first and was pleasantly surprised at the available domain choices. There are more useful domains than Fire.

The RP aspect being the playing of an anti-hero who starts out being part of the System, rather than a rebel like everyone else. But avoiding actually being a Bad Guy.


Kinda hard not to be a "bad guy" when you worship the Lord of hell. As a cleric you will have to shed blood and his church does do human sacrifice.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
...his church does ...

...Separatist...


Yeah..then they hunt down and kill you. You think allows chaos and disorder in his church? Just because an option exists in a rule book does not mean it exists in every setting and every religion.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Yeah..then they hunt down and kill you. You think allows chaos and disorder in his church?

ah but that the point of the Charcater concept, find a way to survive being diferent.


You really can't though. You can't be a cleric and not promote and do deed for your god. I think the OP really has the wrong class for what he wants to play. His concept leads to him being an Ex-cleric really fast or giving in and not playing what he started.


Quote:
Kinda hard not to be a "bad guy" when you worship the Lord of hell. As a cleric you will have to shed blood and his church does do human sacrifice.

How is it possible, then, to be a LN Cleric of Asmodeus?

Anyway. Maybe I should indeed look around for a mundane or arcane "cog in the system" type character. Maybe a city guard looking up to the Hellknights or something.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
You really can't though. You can't be a cleric and not promote and do deed for your god.

But who is saying he would not do deed for his god?

he would find the Stablished church of cheliax odd triying to find new ways to serve Asmodeus.

Or simply dislike Asmodeus but simply serve him, because he was raised as cleric , and being LN he feel that he must folow that path.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The idea of a divine spellcaster who plays fast and loose with the gods and worship of deities is, in its various incarnations, one that has a LOT of fun potential for characters. And as a result, that's why we built the oracle. It's one of the MAIN reasons we built the oracle, in fact (the other one being that we wanted a divine spontaneous caster).

Clerics are very much intended to be sincerely devoted to their deity, and that's why they get their powers. A cleric who's not sincerely devoted to his or her deity is an ex-cleric, as detailed in the core rulebook.

This character concept is cool... but it should be built as anything BUT a cleric. Oracle's the obvious choice, but you could do this character as a ranger, an inquisitor, or even as a bard or a witch or a sorcerer or the like. But cleric... yeah... not really the right choice for this kind of character at all.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Kinda hard not to be a "bad guy" when you worship the Lord of hell. As a cleric you will have to shed blood and his church does do human sacrifice.

Well there are ways of going about the human sacrifice thing that are more neutral than evil. Sacrificing a criminal condemned to death anyway is one of those means. But what about a person whose willing to sacrifice him or herself? This isn't to say he's good by any stretch of the imagination but I think it's quite possible to be LN as a cleric of Asmodeus.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
You could be devoted to Asmodeus, but your idea of who/what Asmodeus is and what it means to worship him could be different from the cultural norm. For example, you could believe that Asmodeus is about the light of fire and the pain of truth correcting the wickedness and corruption of the world. You could sneer at and disdain the decedent and power hungry orthodox church as being ripe targets for the light bringer.
That doesn't really work in a world where you can literally just ask the big man yourself once you reach level 9. If the high priests have a disagreement over some issue, they are just a simple Commune away from the answer.

But what if the answers that the orthodox Asmoediun cleric gets back from the casting of commune differ from the answers that the hetrodox cleric gets back from the casting of the same spell? The DM determines how the deity replies, after all...


I think it's an interesting idea...for a back story. Have the LN character a 'wash out' from the clergy of Asmodeus, and worship someone else.


moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
You could be devoted to Asmodeus, but your idea of who/what Asmodeus is and what it means to worship him could be different from the cultural norm. For example, you could believe that Asmodeus is about the light of fire and the pain of truth correcting the wickedness and corruption of the world. You could sneer at and disdain the decedent and power hungry orthodox church as being ripe targets for the light bringer.
That doesn't really work in a world where you can literally just ask the big man yourself once you reach level 9. If the high priests have a disagreement over some issue, they are just a simple Commune away from the answer.
But what if the answers that the orthodox Asmoediun cleric gets back from the casting of commune differ from the answers that the hetrodox cleric gets back from the casting of the same spell? The DM determines how the deity replies, after all...

Why would Asmodeus answer differently to one cleric than to another? Doing it for the evilulz doesn't make much sense for a LE deity.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
You could be devoted to Asmodeus, but your idea of who/what Asmodeus is and what it means to worship him could be different from the cultural norm. For example, you could believe that Asmodeus is about the light of fire and the pain of truth correcting the wickedness and corruption of the world. You could sneer at and disdain the decedent and power hungry orthodox church as being ripe targets for the light bringer.
That doesn't really work in a world where you can literally just ask the big man yourself once you reach level 9. If the high priests have a disagreement over some issue, they are just a simple Commune away from the answer.
But what if the answers that the orthodox Asmoediun cleric gets back from the casting of commune differ from the answers that the hetrodox cleric gets back from the casting of the same spell? The DM determines how the deity replies, after all...
Why would Asmodeus answer differently to one cleric than to another? Doing it for the evilulz doesn't make much sense for a LE deity.

It could be that the subtle machinations of the great deceiver are not designed to put mortal philosophers and theologians at ease. Or it could be that there are multiple Asmodeuses that exist across a series of world lines and that complete for control of each soul's reality.


moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
You could be devoted to Asmodeus, but your idea of who/what Asmodeus is and what it means to worship him could be different from the cultural norm. For example, you could believe that Asmodeus is about the light of fire and the pain of truth correcting the wickedness and corruption of the world. You could sneer at and disdain the decedent and power hungry orthodox church as being ripe targets for the light bringer.
That doesn't really work in a world where you can literally just ask the big man yourself once you reach level 9. If the high priests have a disagreement over some issue, they are just a simple Commune away from the answer.
But what if the answers that the orthodox Asmoediun cleric gets back from the casting of commune differ from the answers that the hetrodox cleric gets back from the casting of the same spell? The DM determines how the deity replies, after all...
Why would Asmodeus answer differently to one cleric than to another? Doing it for the evilulz doesn't make much sense for a LE deity.
It could be that the subtle machinations of the great deceiver are not designed to put mortal philosophers and theologians at ease. Or it could be that there are multiple Asmodeuses that exist across a series of world lines and that complete for control of each soul's reality.

It is good to see professional quality non-answers.


What if you were a cleric of a different deity, but pretended to be a cleric of Asmodeous for obvious reasons? If your deity understood, it would work.


Gururamalamaswami wrote:

"Devout"

"Devoted"

Spelling people.

I have to admit seeing "devote" used as an adjective more than a dozen times was grating on me too.


I always get giggly when I see people tout their opinion as fact...

Fact of the matter is the whole thing boils down to how your DM runs his world, and his gods. Honestly, all respect to the games creators and their vision, but once the material is being run in someone else's hands, the gods are their play things, not the other way around. If I wanted to when I DM I can corrupt Desna and make her CE goddess of nightmares and bad luck if I wish.

All in all, ask your DM how Asmodeus runs in his game. The rules are mere guidelines for DMs, and they can change them as they wish. If your DM likes the RP opportunity, and can come up with a way for the concept to fit his Asmodeus' fluff, then go for it.

I have seen many literary examples of this very concept, while still remaining what would be considered a "cleric". Perhaps Asmodeus found the sheer nerve of this mortal amusing, and decided to give him the same power as his clergy. All the while using it to corrupt the foolish mortal's soul into his personal thing of amusement. Asmodeus IS the king of the double-cross in PF, as you all well know. Deities in literary works do that sort of thing all the time. Does it make sense to us anything that they do? No, no it does not, for deities are supposed to be as far removed and advanced morally and intellectually from humans, as humans are from earth worms.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
What if you were a cleric of a different deity, but pretended to be a cleric of Asmodeous for obvious reasons? If your deity understood, it would work.

This wouldn't last long. You couldn't fool other clerics or perhaps even non-cleric priests. Best have a high bluff you might be able to pull it off with many people though.

It is a cool concept the OP just picked the wrong class for it.

Silver Crusade

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
What if you were a cleric of a different deity, but pretended to be a cleric of Asmodeous for obvious reasons? If your deity understood, it would work.

Let us turn it around. You were failing as a cleric of Asmodeus and could not gain divine spell casting. Your faith was poor but still you prayed. Lamashtu heard your cries and granted you powers to plant an person with poor faith into the Asmodean Hierarchy. Why? Because she is crazy.

You sincerely believe you worship Asmodeus but you gain spells from Lamashtu (crazy). Sometimes she does not pay attention and gives you semi random spells (roll).

This would require DM approval but I think it could open some interesting game hooks.


I would not say she is crazy. she is simply Inhuman with thoughts outside of the human range.

Silver Crusade

CaaaaaaaRRaaaaaaaZZyyyyyyyyy!

Or what you said.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
erik542 wrote:
moon glum wrote:
You could be devoted to Asmodeus, but your idea of who/what Asmodeus is and what it means to worship him could be different from the cultural norm. For example, you could believe that Asmodeus is about the light of fire and the pain of truth correcting the wickedness and corruption of the world. You could sneer at and disdain the decedent and power hungry orthodox church as being ripe targets for the light bringer.
That doesn't really work in a world where you can literally just ask the big man yourself once you reach level 9. If the high priests have a disagreement over some issue, they are just a simple Commune away from the answer.
But what if the answers that the orthodox Asmoediun cleric gets back from the casting of commune differ from the answers that the hetrodox cleric gets back from the casting of the same spell? The DM determines how the deity replies, after all...
Why would Asmodeus answer differently to one cleric than to another? Doing it for the evilulz doesn't make much sense for a LE deity.
It could be that the subtle machinations of the great deceiver are not designed to put mortal philosophers and theologians at ease. Or it could be that there are multiple Asmodeuses that exist across a series of world lines and that complete for control of each soul's reality.
It is good to see professional quality non-answers.

It could be that one of the clerics worships something that they believe to be Asmodeus, but is actually a different diabolic entity, say a tricky Beelzebub, or a trickster gnome god, or a fallen angel of some good diety that wants to take over Asmodeus's rule.

Or it could be that Asmodeus wants to nourish the heresy so that he can corrupt the neutrally aligned. Once the heresy has enough followers, he will re-incorporate those lost souls back into the orthodoxy.

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