Zen Archers get point blank master free at level 3 and reflexive shot free at level 9. In general, class features that replicate functionality of feats allow you to treat the character as having the feat for prerequisites. Would I be justified by RAW and/or RAI in skipping snap shot and using reflexive shot + point-blank master to qualify for improved snap shot and greater snap shot, which require snap shot (only with the chosen bow, perhaps)?
Reflexive Shot (Ex)
Spoiler:
At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes).
This ability replaces improved evasion.
Snap Shot (Combat)
Spoiler:
With a ranged weapon, you can take advantage of any opening in your opponent’s defenses.
Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.
Normal: While wielding a ranged weapon, you threaten no squares and can make no attacks of opportunity with that weapon.
Point Blank Master (Combat)
Spoiler:
You are adept at firing ranged weapons in close quarters.
Prerequisite: Weapon Specialization with selected ranged weapon.
Benefit: Choose one type of ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when firing the selected weapon while threatened.
Normal: Using a ranged weapon while you are threatened provokes attacks of opportunity.
Special: Starting at 6th level, a ranger with the archery combat style may select Point Blank Master as a combat style feat, but he must have Weapon Focus instead of Weapon Specialization in the selected weapon.
RAW no, but I'd allow it without a second thought.
What Crys said. Also, it's a nice catch, I never noticed the similiarity before, which is again, nice, as zen archer is the favorite archer class out there for me.
Well, looking around, it seems like combat patrol should allow a similar result to improved snap shot, which is more important than the bonuses from greater snap shot; the goal is to threaten a larger area.
I do not see such a qualificaoitn on Reflexive shot.
Can you to a reflexive shot on anyone at any range you can shoot which does something that would provoke an attack of opportunity?
Example a wizard 60' away starts to cast a spell... Reflexive shot on the wizrd to interupt?
Reflexive Shot allows you to make AoOs against enemies your unarmed strike can reach, so if you have reach (for example, if you have Enlarge Person active) you can make an AoO against them. So AoOs out to 10ft in that circumstance.
I do not see such a qualificaoitn on Reflexive shot.
Can you to a reflexive shot on anyone at any range you can shoot which does something that would provoke an attack of opportunity?
Example a wizard 60' away starts to cast a spell... Reflexive shot on the wizrd to interupt?
Reflexive Shot allows you to make AoOs against enemies your unarmed strike can reach, so if you have reach (for example, if you have Enlarge Person active) you can make an AoO against them. So AoOs out to 10ft in that circumstance.
That is what I always assumed, but when I read it just now it did not put a limitation on range.
Quote:
The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes).
For your interpretation it should say "The monk still ONLY threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes)."
They used only in the second part of the sentance for number of attacks. This could very easily mean that he can attack with the bow at range or with his feet up close (which he might want to do if he did not use a Ki point to raise his bow damage to unarmed damage)
Again I had always ASSUMED your interpretation, but after rereading it I am not quite sure it says what we thought it said.
You can only make AoO when you threaten. So, no matter how you read reflexive shot, the ZA can only make the AoO from 5 or 10 (enlarged) feet away.
That said, reflexive shot is as good as and actually better than snap shot when enlarged and should act as a replacement for snap shot with any GM that has discretion and a sense of reasonableness.
The reason the answer is 'no', RAW, is because of a pet peeve of mine. I dislike when an improved feat lists the prerequisite feats of the base version as its prerequisites, too. Improved and Greater Snap Shot lists Point-Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as prerequisites, when they are prerequisites for Snap Shot. It's redundant for the Improved and Greater forms of Snap Shot to require them.
That said, it can't hurt to ask your GM. I asked mine the same question before I found this thread. We're only level 6 right now, so he has a couple of levels before he needs to make the call.
As for the range that Reflexive Shot grants OAs: There are two reasons a bow can't make attacks of opportunity normally. The first is because attacking with a ranged weapon provokes. The second, though not explicitly stated, is because not all ranged weapons are load free, and it's prohibited to take actions in addition to the attack of opportunity action when making an attack of opportunity. They could have made load free ranged weapons an exception, but then making an attack of opportunity with a bow would have then provoked, because you'd be making a ranged attack in a threatened square, so no one would ever take it, for fear of the target having Combat Reflexes.
I believe the omission of another 'only' in the benefit description caused confusion, but the Reflexive Shot feature's intention was that it allows the Zen Archer to make attacks of opportunity only in squares that their unarmed strike threatens. While I think attacks of opportunity should be able to be made from a load for free ranged weapon at ranges beyond 5 feet, where do you draw the line? Being able to make attacks of opportunity at full bow range (110 feet for composite long bows) seems... ridiculously excessive. A shot made by trained reflexes is made without aiming, so there is a point where the target is just too far away for that kind of shot to realistically find the target. Improved and Greater Snap Shot are investments that show that the archer has spent time increasing the accuracy of his reflexes in those situations (which is why I think a ZA with Point-Blank Master and Reflexive Shot should be able to take them without the other requisite feats), but the increase in range is impressive without becoming excessive. Reflexive Shot allowing a range limited by the weapon's range is just unbelievable, in my opinion.
As for the range that Reflexive Shot grants OAs: There are two reasons a bow can't make attacks of opportunity normally. The first is because attacking with a ranged weapon provokes. The second, though not explicitly stated, is because not all ranged weapons are load free, and it's prohibited to take actions in addition to the attack of opportunity action when making an attack of opportunity. They could have made load free ranged weapons an exception, but then making an attack of opportunity with a bow would have then provoked, because you'd be making a ranged attack in a threatened square, so no one would ever take it, for fear of the target having Combat Reflexes.
I believe the omission of another 'only' in the benefit description caused confusion, but the Reflexive Shot feature's intention was that it allows the Zen Archer to make attacks of opportunity only in squares that their unarmed strike threatens. While I think attacks of opportunity should be able to be made from a load for free ranged weapon at ranges beyond 5 feet, where do you draw the line? Being able to make attacks of opportunity at full bow range (110 feet for composite long bows) seems... ridiculously excessive. A shot made by trained reflexes is made without aiming, so there is a point where the target is just too far away for that kind of shot to realistically find the target. Improved and Greater Snap Shot are investments that show that the archer has spent time increasing the accuracy of his reflexes in those situations (which is why I think a ZA with Point-Blank Master and Reflexive Shot should be able to take them without the other requisite feats), but the increase in range is impressive without becoming excessive. Reflexive Shot allowing a range limited by the weapon's range is just unbelievable, in my opinion.
The only thing keeping ranged attacks from getting AoOs is that they do not threaten. That is all.
Really, that is it.
Drawing and pulling back arrows for bows is explicitly allowed for AoOs. The whole "what range" question is irrelevant, because it is at whatever range you threaten with them. And, you are most definitely allowed to make an attack of opportunity that itself provokes for your enemy. None of the reasons you listed are actual reasons, and some are wrong.
The only reason you do not get AoOs with ranged weapons is because... they do not threaten.
