Heya all,
I need some help coming up with a backup character in case my current one dies. I'm playing a melee Inquisitor, and I'm supposed to be covering the "skill/stealth guy" role. My big issue is our campaign is limited to CRB and APG only, and my choices are very limited. Ideally I'd like to have a character with 2/3 BAB, some magic, and 6+ skill points/lvl.
Unfortunately I really hate "traditional D&D" classes, which is why I'm playing an Inquisitor. I'm hoping someone can either provide me with an "out of the box" interpretation of a core class, or some multiclass combination that will feel fresh and not done to death. Remember that I'm restricted to only CRB and APG, which is why this has been a difficult problem for me to solve. And please don't suggest I play another Inquisitor, I'm well aware of that option. Cheers and thanks all!
Only having access to the CRB and APG is no big deal. You have about 10 options for how to play a skill/stealth guy with some magic and melee capabilities. Neglecting class, what kind of character do you want to play? Give us a description and we might be able to offer some suggestions.
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A bard.
Only having access to the CRB and APG is no big deal. You have about 10 options for how to play a skill/stealth guy with some magic and melee capabilities. Neglecting class, what kind of character do you want to play? Give us a description and we might be able to offer some suggestions.
I prefer melee, Strength based characters. I'm looking for 2/3 BAB, mix in some magic, and skills. The issue I'm having is I hate Bards, Rangers and Rogues, so I'm not sure what else I can do besides pray my current character doesn't die lol
Cleric will get you everything but the skills.
Magus is a little better with skills with their high INT score.
Magus would be fantastic but they're not in the CRB or APG unfortunately. I should clarify something: when I say I hate Rangers, Rogues, and Bards, I mean I'm ok with a 1 or 2 lvl dip in those classes, but I don't want any of those to be my main class.
Why not just create a new inquisitor? There are lots of different build options available. If your first was ranged make this one melee or vice versa.
Here's a question, why do you hate Rangers? What is it about the class mechanics that you don't like?
Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of "this option won't work" with no other reasoning why. I'm getting the impression you don't want to be the "skill guy" at all.
But the thing I didn't see suggested was summoner. You can build an eidolon for most of the skill based tasks and turn to your summon monster sla for combat.
Summoner with a skill Eidolon is interesting, something I haven't thought of. This is really an exploration of ideas/brainstorming so making a new Inquisitor is certainly a possibility, I just wanted to see what other ideas people had.
With regards to Rangers, it's really an issue of mechanics. I dislike highly situational class abilities like favored terrain and favored enemy, and I'm not a fan of any of the available combat styles. My objection to Rogues is also mechanical: sneak attack is their main feature and it's very difficult to use. Bards I dislike because of flavor, I find someone singing and dancing in the middle of combat to be ridiculous.
A small serpentine eidolon with the arms and skilled evolutions can do the skilled guy role very well.
Well if you don't like sneak attack, Rogue is not going to be your thing. I get that. But I wouldn't be so hasty to box in the other classes.
With respect to the bard, there are about a million ways to reflavor that guy to suit your needs. For example, take oratory and tell your party that your incredibly menacing presence on the battlefield as you threaten to gut opponents really inspires your pals to hit harder. Come up with some harsh stuff to say and speak in your beat batman voice. No dancing or lute required.
As for mechanics, I'm a little confused how you can not like any of the 6 available Ranger combat styles. Not only do they cover just about every possibility in the game, they also open the class up to being one of the most competent switch hitters in the materials available to you. If you don't like favored enemy and favored terrain, then good news! The APG has archetypes that swap those abilities out. Guide gets rid of favored enemy, replacing it with the ability to turn your big guns on any enemy and nuke them a few times a day. Infiltrator loses favored terrain to give you some interesting bonuses.
If none of that sounds interesting, there's the alchemist.
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Let's keep the conversation on topic everybody. No need to be throwing around accusations.
Monk into Shadowdancer.
Your bonus feats line up perfectly with the prerequsites, and there is sure to be an archetype that fits for you.
While you won't get 6 skill points, you'll get 4 from Monk and eventually 6 from Shadowdancer.
As a bonus/penalty, you might want to trade out Evasion if possible (as Shadowdancer provides it).
Summoner with a skill Eidolon is interesting, something I haven't thought of. This is really an exploration of ideas/brainstorming so making a new Inquisitor is certainly a possibility, I just wanted to see what other ideas people had.
With regards to Rangers, it's really an issue of mechanics. I dislike highly situational class abilities like favored terrain and favored enemy, and I'm not a fan of any of the available combat styles. My objection to Rogues is also mechanical: sneak attack is their main feature and it's very difficult to use. Bards I dislike because of flavor, I find someone singing and dancing in the middle of combat to be ridiculous.
There are archetypes which replace Favored Terrain/Enemy. I'd consider looking into those. The Guide archetype is really nice, as it provides unique versatility, and synchronizes with the Urban Ranger archetype, which grants you necessary class skills (and some other stuff that aren't so terrain-dependant). Another archetype to consider is the Shapeshifter, though this will force you to rely on Natural Weapons (i.e. it forces you to use the Natural Weapons Combat Style).
As far as combat-styles are concerned, going the Weapon and Shield style can make you a very versatile combatant, since you get access to Shield Master by 6th level, which transforms any Shield Enhancement Bonuses your Shield possesses into bonuses that apply to Attack and Damage rolls when you Bash with it. Being able to ignore Pre-requisites for feats is perhaps one of the most powerful Ranger features yet.
I don't blame you for not liking Rogues. If you had access to the Advanced Class Guide or Ultimate Combat, you would have similar options that are vastly superior to the Rogue option in every way. Regardless, Rogues are sub-par, and their Unchained counterparts, while better, still aren't really strong enough.
As far as Bards are concerned, not all actions for the Bard's Bardic Performance involves "singing and dancing." Perform (Oratory) is actually a valid Perform skill you can use that consists of Prayers and Biblical Recitals of Religious Text. You could easily flavor a Bard as if they were a traveling religious pilgrim, using his prayers as a means of empowering his allies to fight better and harder, for the common good. Don't let the stereotypes of a character trope screw you out of a class that many would argue is perhaps one of the best to add to a party, especially when you can easily flavor it to function as something completely different.
Flavoring a bard as a wandering religious zealot is definitely out of the box thinking. Something to consider for sure, along with the skill monkey eidolon summoner.
Rangers and Rogues are very problematic for me, I've tried rangers and have been extremely bored and frustrated with that class. I like obliterating bad guys with two handed weapons, but the THW combat style is just awful. Besides Power Attack, there's not a single feat in that style I want.
If that's the case, I would consider taking the Archery route, so as to keep your ranged options relevant for all levels of play. To be honest, Power Attack is really the only feat a Two-Handed Martial actually needs to be competent in melee. Furious Focus is decent, and synergizes with the Vital Strike feat chain, but it loses value for every 5 BAB you acquire through your travels, as does Vital Strike, since you have to spend feats to keep it relevant at all levels of play. Outside that, you're right, Two-Handed style is pretty crappy. The feat selection is garbage (and that's because there isn't really anything good from it outside those 2 feats), and it's not worth choosing for style feats.
But Ranged? Holy crap, there are so many things in the way as far as pre-reqs are concerned in order to get the "de facto" feats, like Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, and Deadly Aim. (Well, Deadly Aim doesn't have much in the way of Pre-Reqs, but still...) If you ever get cornered, Point Blank Master is also really nice to have, since you can use your relevant weapon in melee combat. Being able to ignore those pre-requisites makes you not only a competent melee threat, but a relevant ranged threat as well.
I like obliterating bad guys with two handed weapons, but the THW combat style is just awful. Besides Power Attack, there's not a single feat in that style I want.
Consider going shield style and just two handing a spiked heavy shield. 1st level you have to get improved shield bash. 2nd level use your style feat to get shield slam 4 levels early and send enemies flying with every attack. 6th level is shield mastery and all of its perks. At that point you may also try dual wielding your spiked heavy shields as you take no penalty from two weapon fighting with them.
Alot of good advice for me to consider here! Any good multiclass combinations I should consider?
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Oracle, don't dump int. Or you can be a lore oracle, take wisdom in flesh and dump dex to put into int, one of your revelation adds more int...yeah quite some skill points.
Battle is best for beatsticking, but other mysteries don't do too badly either. Medium armor proficiency and simple weapons is enough to smack things up.
Druids also do a pretty good job of meeting your demands, although they only get 4 skills per level (but with a 12 INT and human race or FCB you're at 6). You can shape yourself into a dire tiger and go nuts on people, or change into a bat and get an insane stealth bonus for being so small, not to mention flight and blindsense. The Plains Druid archetype from the APG makes for a good ambush specialist or mounted combatant, while the lion shaman makes you a cat-summoning machine and potentially grants access to some great support domains if you want to cast more.
Lots for me to consider, plenty of ideas. Cheers, thanks all!
well depending on the campaign you can build the ranger less situational. if you fight off quite a lot of bandits and soldiers and the like, then you could take favoured enemy human. that also includes half elves and half orcs. and depending on where the setting of the campaign, you could pick a terrain thats very prominent in the setting.
Undead and evil outsiders tend to come up a lot as well, in many campaigns.
One of the recent splat books had a feat that let rangers change their humanoid/outsider favored enemy subtypes once per day (I think) to match a different target. Reduced it to only +2 for the duration though. I think it was the Dirty Tactics toolbox?
Urban and underground terrains are also pretty common, or just leave them as a nice bonus when they come up. A ranger can still do well without.
I used a highlighter (2 colors) on my ranger to keep track of which things were boosted by favored enemy/terrain.
