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In the 5th printing errata update for the core rulebook, I found this on its second page:
Page 144—In the Weapon Qualities section, in the Special section, in the Double paragraph in the second sentence, replace “A double weapon can be wielded as a one-handed weapon” with “You can choose to wield one end of a double weapon two-handed”.
What this means is that a wizard can't choose a quarterstaff as a bonded item, because being a double weapon, it would require two hands to always be used to consider it "wielded," thus preventing the casting of spells with somatic components.
If you want to play a magic user with a staff there is the staff magus archetype. Also using bonded weapons is not good because they can be disarmed which more stuff will use probably then steal needed to take away a magical amulet. And grease spells ect. effect bonded weapons.
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I thought that Quarterstaffs were two handed anyway... Oh well. Fly, you fools. To Isangard. Cause thats where the hobbits are.
They're double weapons, meaning before the errata update you could choose to use only one end of the weapon if you wanted to, with one hand. Now it requires two hands to use a single end, meaning it isn't considered "wielded" until you're using both hands. I suppose wizards with more than two arms can do it still.
The iconic wizard uses a magic staff, not a quarter staff.
Physical Description: A typical staff measures anywhere from 4 feet to 7 feet long and is 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds. Most staves are wood, but an exotic few are bone, metal, or even glass. A staff often has a gem or some device at its tip or is shod in metal at one or both ends. Staves are often decorated with carvings or runes. A typical staff is like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel. It has AC 7, 10 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 24.
There are no stats for walking sticks (unless you are counting improvised), and Gandalf's staff certainly wasn't a cudgel. That means we are left with treating Gandalf's magic staff as a quarterstaff. And that means if Gandalf is bonded to his staff, he has extreme difficulty casting most magic in PF.
I think it's a weird ruling in general- even getting away from the bonded weapon issue. It changes double weapons up quite a bit (I have a cleric that uses a quaterstaff and shield- that's no longer legal)- for no real discernible reason.
Seriously, was there anyone that actually had a problem with the previous RAW? Was this causing issues for someone or being exploited in some unknown way? Why was the change actually needed? This just seems odd to me.
It was to fix the Staff Magus, as their main thing could actually be done by anyone.
You don't fight with a magical staff. Except by zotting people with magic.
Please note you can always simply take the quarterstaff mastery feat.
Also, Ezren's "staff" is statted up as a club.
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Gandalf isn't a wizard, he's a Maiar. :p
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Mage Staff:
Cost - 0
Damage (Small) - 1d4
Damage (Medium) - 1d6
Critical - x2
Weight - 3 lbs.
Type - Blunt
Slightly smaller than a quarterstaff with a weighted tip, the mage staff was crafted by Pale the Martial Wizard from Beyond because he wanted to bond a weapon to himself that he could also handily whack a goblin across the face with.
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Gandalf is essentially a demigod and not bound by the rules of mere mortals.
My tongue is far, far away from my cheek when I say that, too.
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Bonded Wizard items aside, I like this change. Many double weapons are inferior to other choices, yet require Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield. Allowing them to be used two-handed for the 1.5 strength & power attack bonus on a single attack is a boon. Also, I think it makes more sense than allowing a weapon of that size to be wielded effectively in one hand.
To fix the Bonded Staff issue, I'd rather see the "must be wielded" requirement changed to "must be held".
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There is some dev comment floating around saying "wielded"is changed to "held" for 2 handed weapon arcane foci.
The Devs are on hols now so I don't expect to see an answer within the next 72 hrs but they'll come on and point that out and how its a storm in a teacup
This.
One developer said that you had to WIELD an arcane bonded weapon. This was later recanted by another developer. I will see if I can find the post.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure this is the thread. Appropriate portions shown below.
Wielding means "actively trying to use the item," and is normally only used in the context of weapons or weapon-like objects such as rods, wands, and so on.
Otherwise, it's just an item you're holding/carrying.
And if you're not holding/carrying/bearing it, you're probably wearing it, or it's stowed in a sheath or backpack.
And if you're not wielding, holding/carrying/bearing, or wearing the item, it's probably unattended.
If you're wielding a sword, you're trying to hit people with it.
If you're holding or carrying a sword, you just have it on your person, perhaps because your fighter buddy dropped it and you didn't want him to lose it.
You probably can't wear a sword.
If you're not wielding the sword, holding/carrying/bearing the sword, or wearing the sword, it's on the ground.
Question though, what does that mean for wizards that choose to a use weapon or two handed weapon even as their arcane bonded item?It means "obviously you can't wield the weapon and cast a spell in the same round, so we'll change the text in the arcane bond section so it says 'held in hand' rather than 'wielded.'" :)
Can't you use the hand holding the bonded item to make somatic components anyway? Or is that just the Arcane Duelist?
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This is not a problem because wizards don't cast spells while wielding ANY weapon, one handed or not. You don't wield a staff to cast, you HOLD it.
This.
On a side note, I tried to fight with a real staff wielding it one-handed, and for my part I can confirm that the two-handed rule is more than appropriate.
Yeah I do think this gets dumb for arcane archers. You could always houserule around it for two handed weapons you can use a somantic component in one hand with your bonded object if you really wanted to.
Flavorwise a wizard with a bonded staff or an arcane archer with a bonded bow seem awesome.
I personally prefer the Doctor Strange school of wizardry where you make funny hand gestures at people and zot them while issuing colorful curses that only the Flargavians from the Realm of Itchy Sweaters and Endless Apathy can understand you.
Except, as we all know, Gandalf was only a 5th level wizard.
5th-level Wizard Celestial Being! :p
This is not a problem because wizards don't cast spells while wielding ANY weapon, one handed or not. You don't wield a staff to cast, you HOLD it.This.
On a side note, I tried to fight with a real staff wielding it one-handed, and for my part I can confirm that the two-handed rule is more than appropriate.
Most methods I've seen for using a two handed shafted weapon with one hand require having an anchor point when being used (Such as tucked under the arm like a lance, planted with the foot, braced with the leg or against a shield).
This is not a problem because wizards don't cast spells while wielding ANY weapon, one handed or not. You don't wield a staff to cast, you HOLD it.
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
Someone failed their knowledge arcana check.
This is not a problem because wizards don't cast spells while wielding ANY weapon, one handed or not. You don't wield a staff to cast, you HOLD it.Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
Someone failed their knowledge arcana check.
It's being changed to Held.
Sadly though until it is RAW and by proxy PFS Wizards using staves are boned.
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Maybe this is a helpful solution to the dilemma as to weather a wizard can cast with a wizard’s staff.
“The Most Important Rule
The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters
have a number of “house rules” that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.” Page 9 core rule book.
So in short, if you want to have a wizard who has his bonded item a staff, and have him cast spells, you can. All you need to do is simply change that pesky ruling to fit your needs. This game is written with the expectation that you will shape it to fit your needs.
I hope this helps
Still nothing for PFS in the meantime.
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(Just have to say that Gandalf was so totally not a player character.)
This should be cleared up but I do seriously hope that people aren't playing to the letter of the rule to that extreme. Pathfinder Society would be kind of the only place I hope that would come up.
Of course a weapon is almost always a suboptimal choice for an arcane bonded, and a quarterstaff doubly so when you could just have a regular staff or any other weapon.
I suppose I'm just grousing about it. More important things to do.
Happy Christmas everyone who cares!
Of course there is still Quarterstaff Master as I mentioned earlier.
You want to fight with a staff in one hand use the feat that lets you do so.
Sure after 10 levels of concentration checks for casting.
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Gandalf wasnt a PC. In fact, the only PCs were the hobbits. the DM created a hobbit-centric campaign, and used a bunch of high powered DMPCs to make the PCs miserable. I'm surprised the ring didnt just get tossed on the roadside as the players stormed out.
You didnt want to play D&D with Tolkein as your DM, trust me
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Hey if you want to be Gandalf then you got to do the whole thing -- either you're a super powerful demi-god or your not and you don't get to act like one.
;P
I allow magic staffs in hand to be able to fulfill the somatic component requirement of spellcasting. The same if a bonded object.
Can't you wield a staff as an improvised weapon? So maybe that is how you wield it.
Wizards can use clubs, a 1 handed weapon that if (S) does 1d4, and (M) does 1d6, crit x2, range 10', wt 3 lbs. (no description of the weapon is given, I assume it is some kind of STICK.)
Wizards can use quarterstaves, a 2 handed weapon that has the same stats as a club, but cannot be thrown and weighs one pound more. (The weapon is described as a simple piece of wood, about 5 feet in length.)
Both do the same damage wielded with 2 hands!
Wizards Arcane Bond says you can use a staff or a weapon.
What a Wizard calls his/her staff does not have to be a QUARTERSTAFF.
What a Wizard calls his/her staff does not have to be a QUARTERSTAFF.
Don't bother. I've been preaching this for YEARS. They never listen.
Examples of problems
1. PFS character who is is now unable to cast because his bonded object (which he may have even poured money into)
2. My bonded object was (and i would like it to remain so) a Staff of power.
3.My Bonded object is a quarterstaff because prior to this ruling thats what i wanted not a reskinned club and i like it that way.