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So my wife has decided to make a new PFS character (her first, which I built for her, was more of a trainer). She's going to be a Ranger[Guide]/Bard[Arcane Duelist] headed toward becoming an Arcane Archer.
She only ever plays with me, so I'd like a new character to play in synch with hers.
I thought it might be cool to play an Eldritch Knight, to be sort of the "other side of the coin" from her Arcane Archer. (Yes, I know it'll be harder than just playing a Magus - but I don't mind a challenge.)
So how do you build a reasonable EK? I need to be casting 3rd level spells ASAP, so that means Wizard or Witch are strong candidates for five levels. I could do sorcerer, but it'd take me an extra level.
Level progression will be tricky. Fighter at 1st is appealing for the hit points and weapon/armor proficiency right off the bat. On the other hand, Arcane Armor Training requires CL 3rd, so the fastest way to take it is to wait on the fighter level until 4th (using the bonus feat to take it). Otherwise, I'll be waiting until 5th.
On the other hand, maybe I could skip it? I'll be using GM credits from First Steps to get to level 2, so I can have a mithral chain shirt before I ever play. I'd then have a 10% spell failure chance... I guess that'd be acceptable until 5th, right? Wouldn't interfere with wands...
Guess I've got some thinking to do. Any input is welcomed.
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This is PFS? Hmmm. I wouldn't bother making it. I'd go with a magus. There's a lot of limitations that's not fun until you get to EK, and since this is PFS, 1/2 of your levels you will not be EK. And then end in end, you'll play more like a wizard than a fighter. Since you have played PFS before, I assume you have noticed that combat usually end very quickly, so buffing yourself so you can fight might ever come into play.
If you are still going to continue, I guess you go wizard 5, fighter 1, EK the rest. Play an elf, use the bow and cast spells. Do not with a witch as their spells are meh IMO. They lack a lot of good buff spells.
If you want to go witch, I suggest the magus that can channel hexes with spellstrike.
Or if you want...play a fighting cleric/oracle, and flavor yourself as an eldritch knight/magus. Clerics have way more buff spells that turn the caster into a better fighting class.
I think first level should be a wizard with a solid strength. Armor can be mage armor in most cases until you can get that level of fighter, and you can be an elf for rather good starting weapon proficiencies.
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I think first level should be a wizard with a solid strength. Armor can be mage armor in most cases until you can get that level of fighter, and you can be an elf for rather good starting weapon proficiencies.
Note that (as I said in the OP) I won't be playing this character until level 2 anyway. So my first combat, I could be Fighter1/[caster]1 with a mithral chain shirt.
My main issues are thus:
1. How big is the difference between 10% and 0% ASF?
2. How should I prioritize my stats? DEX is obviously important to not die, but I also need my casting stat, STR for melee damage, and of course CON.
3. Wizard or Witch? Bonded item or familiar? School powers or hexes? Etc.
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It depends on what you want. The EK is the wizard who dabbles at melee (mostly) fighting but has all his wizard spells available. The Magus is the blend of sword and sorcery at the cost of breadth in magic.
The decision to play EK over Magus is already made. The advice I seek is how to build it.
1. Bigger then the numbers imply. If 1-9 (when you pass) are cantrips and 10 is that big spell you saved to use at just the right time. It always sucks to fizzle a spell, especially as a wizard who's progression will be reduced due to the multiclassing you need to do.
2. DEX is obviously important to not die, but I also need my casting stat, STR for melee damage, and of course CON. - Str then con then dex. You are a wizard, you have much better ways to protect yourself then AC (though you can do that too). Mirror image, blur, etc are better ways to make people miss you then dex. Dont dump dex for sure, but use spell slots to fill out your defence and keep your strength and con high.
3. Wizard, the flexibility of the list is really important to the Eldritch Knight, and definately bonded item, specifically a one handed weapon.
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I have seen EK pull off in society play. I believe the EK was a Fighter/Transmuter with the shapechange sub-school. This allows you to do things without your weapons and still threaten by growing a gore attack (also useful for threatening when wielding a reach weapon). It also lets you give yourself a enhancement bonus to one physical stat when you prepare spells.
Making use of enlarge person and a reach weapon will be a benefit that you want to take advantage of. Later you should use the monstrous physique spell in order to become large as a standard action.
Arcane Spell Failure is something that you want to avoid so I would use spells like Mage Armor, Shield, Displacement, Mirror Image, Blink (combined with ghost touch) to make up for your lack of armor. Spells like Haste and Heroism will keep your attack bonus up, and if you are playing with your wife inspire courage will help as well.
Copy/pasted my post from the other Fighter/Mage thread, same principles apply, the only difference being you wont ever hit 10th level of EK.
I would recommend Transmuter with the Enhancement subschool. You wont lose the greatest benefit of being a specialist, the extra spell per level per day, by taking Eldritch Knight, and if you enter EK using Ftr1/Wiz5 then you will get the increase to +2 daily physical ability score everyday.
You said you intended to take Arcane Armor Training, it needs to be noted that this feat, Arcane Strike, and the 10th level ability of the EK are all swift actions, and being that you can only use one in a round that could prove problematic. A popular houserule is to remove the swift action cost of arcane armor training and its upgrade, therefore taking the feat provides its benefits constantly, talk with your DM and see if this is a viable option.
I have been a Fighter/Mage lover since AD&D, enjoy!
I would recommend focusing entirely on your caster levels up front until you get to 3rd level spells. At that point, take your martial dip and then proceed with EK from that point. 3rd levels spells are pretty great, so once you get there, the inherent goodness of the selection at that level should be able to carry you through 2 levels of spelllessness until EK starts picking up speed.
EKs play like wizards who can, if necessary, swing a sword in a pinch with ever improving success.
As far as ASF goes, my experience with it has been, "it strikes when I most need it not to, regardless of whether it's 5% or 25%." As such, I try to mitigate that as blessedly quick as I can.
If you did wind up picking sorceror though, I would recommend taking Paladin as your martial class.
[EDIT] Additionally: As far as wizard school specialties go, I would HIGHLY recommend Divination [foresight] or Transmutation (as already recommended several times above).
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You'll need to go with 14 in the 4 main stats probably. STR, DEX, CON, and INT. The question is to dump CHA or not, and where to put that. Those 2 or 4 points can only take you to another odd number, but that's still useful.
I'd just go with buying a wand of mage armor. I do that with my ifrit sorcerer, and it works well enough. Bracers are so expensive that it's never worth it, especially since you can wear armor. If the wand thing doesn't work because you are spending way too much time buffing, buy the mithril shirt, and take the feat to reduce ASF by 10%.
Have you figured out if you want to fight in melee or ranged? Or if you are going to fight at all or just cast? If you are going ranged, the armor thing isn't nearly as big of a deal.
I think you need to figure out what you want the character to do before we can figure out how to build it the best. Often after I figure out what I want, I realize it's not viable and start thinking of ways around the problem or going a different way altogether.
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The Goal:
I want to be able to shift back and forth between melee and range. This can be scenario to scenario (maybe one week there are three tanks at the table, and the next week 0-1) or from fight to fight (maybe one fight has good sniping points or a bottleneck and the next is just an open brawl with no room to hide) or from round to round (maybe I can't get to the front lines in one round and want to cast a spell on the way, maybe I take a crit to the gizzard and need to retreat and cast from the back).
Neither melee nor range/casting needs to be as strong as a PC focused exclusively on it (I don't need to melee DPR like a melee-only Barbarian, and I don't need to cast like a 20 INT wizard) but I need for neither to be suicidal/unhelpful.
Weapon usage will be focused on melee; ranged combat will be handled mostly with spells/wands (or abilities, as applicable).
Does that help?
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The spellcaster portion of an ElK benefits most from a class which is all about the raw spell power, and not focused so much on cool Class Features. That makes Wizard the number one choice, unless you have a really good reason to go for a different class.
Start with a level of Fighter (for the Hit Points), then Wizard 5, then ElK all the way.
Make sure you take the Magical Knack trait, as it was pretty much designed for ElKs, and will keep your caster level equal to your character level for your whole career.
I'd agree with the suggestion of taking the Transmutation (enhancement) school for the Wizard levels: by the time you hit Wizard 5 (at character level 6) you'll have a floating +2 physical Ability Score bonus you can re-assign every day (so useful if you're chopping and changing tactics a bit from scenario to scenario), as well as the ability to grant a +2 enhancement bonus to an Ability Score, or natural armour, by touch, for 2 rounds, 3+ Intelligence bonus times per day. On top of that, transmutation spells include lots of the buff type stuff which ElKs can get good milage out of.
For the one level of Fighter I'd choose one of the archetypes that ditches the heavier armour proficiencies (which you're unlikely to ever use) for something more helpful. Tactician gets some extra Skill Points and some more class Skills, whilst Unarmed Fighter gains proficiency with all monk weapons (even the exotics), Improved Unarmed Strike, and one style Feat without needing to meet the pre-requisites (although all that costs you medium and heavy armour proficiency, shield proficiency, and your bonus combat Feat for Fighter 1). The Unbreakable archetype looks interesting too, if you like the Diehard Feat and want to snap it up on the cheap at level 1.
I'd recommend a bonded object over a familiar, simply because your familiar's progress would get stunted for all those levels you're taken outside of the Wizard class.
Get Still Spell pretty early on (after you're casting level 2 spells anyway), as this lets you ignore the arcane spell failure limits of casting in armour, without eating your swift action. You should get the Arcane Armour Feats when you can, as they allow you to cast freely in turns when you're not fighting, without having to remove all your armour. Before you can afford a mithral breastplate, though, you may as well stick to Mage Armour and be done with it, instead of eating the spell failure chance on casting.
Arcane Strike is pretty much a must, to boost your damage (don't worry about the swift action cost clashing with the Arcane Armour Feats - you won't be casting and fighting in the same turn anyway... you're not some stinking Magus! ;) ).
Spell-wise, long term buffs are good: stuff you can cast before you don your armour and wade into melee or, later on, stuff you can cast using your Arcane Armour Feats at the start of combat, then head on in a-swinging...
Alternately, you could aim to be an arcane Druid of sorts, and plan to rely on shapeshifting transformations - Beast Shape, Elemental Body and the like.
Go nuts, have fun! :)
I'm going to recommend still spell as well. I've played the wizard x/fighter 1/eldritch knight x at all levels and found it to work fine. Even at level 7 if you go with still spell and full plate (possibly with a tower shield) you should be fine. Be sure to make a list of spells that do not require a somatic component or spells you'd like to cast before you put your armor on and leave up all day. I wouldn't pump up Dexterity much instead focusing on strength intelligence and constitution.
I aimed for spells like glitterdust, and pyrotechnics.
My advice on feats is to rely on a mithral buckler and mage armor at lower levels and switch over to still spell and full plate at level 5~6 (depending on when exactly you take your fighter level).
If you want to do the spell slinger archetype you should use gunslinger for your martial level instead of fighter.
If you like sorcerer over wizard I would suggest the emyperal bloodline (cross blooded if you like) and a level of sohei monk to open up eldritch knight. If you don't mind being really odd you could go with the seeker archetype too to gain trapfinding as well.
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Magic Knack is not legal for PFS. Spellslinger is not legal.
I'd consider going lore warden from PFS Field Guide. It's only a dip, so the benefits are not so great, but it makes all of your INT skills into class skills, and you get 4 skills points per level, 2 of which needs to be spent on INT skills.
Unarmed fighter is a good idea, and it can open up Deflect Arrows and style feats if you care about that.
To fight well in melee, you'll need Power Attack at some point, or else the damage isn't going to keep up. Luckily, that's only 1 feat, and you can take it way later. Point-Blank and Precise are needed for ranged, but if you are going to be using rays, you might be able to skip it. Still, a -8 it huge, and until you get lots of levels of EK, that -8 might not be avoidable in encounters.
Still Spell is a great call. I'd save up some $$$ and just get the rod. You don't need the best weapons or armor, so you should be able to spare $$$ for less metamagic still, and then you can upgrade it to a normal metamagic rod later.
Twilight enhancement reduces your ASF % (I believe, forgot which book had it), so that's worth looking into, but if you go with a rod, that might be better since you do not want to spend the time to cast buffs and then the encounter ends (it happens in PFS a lot IMO).
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If memory serves, there's a trait that lets you pick one spell and, when applying metamagic to it, reduce the adjusted level by 1. In the case of Still Spell, that would mean I could have one spell that's always Stilled for free. Any suggestions for which spell that should be?
Obviously, due to being more MAD than a wizard, spells that grant saves will be unappealing. I'll have to do some research there.
Cantrips won't be much of an issue since I can cast them a million times. If it takes me two tries to light up my buckler before entering the cave, it's no big deal.
Alright, so it looks like by level 2, I can be fighter1/wizard1 with 10% ASF (mithral chain shirt) and one "Free Still" spell. Then by level 5, I can take AAT for 0% ASF (or 5% if I upgrade to a mithral breastplate).
I need to research the wizard - never played one. But I think I'm getting close to a preliminary build here.
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Now that I think about it, going with a different martial class might be better as well.
I think cavalier could be a viable choice depending on the teamwork feat chosen. Shake It Off Out could be worth it for a short boost. Outflank you won't quality for, even if you went wizard 5 before going cavalier. Plus you get a mount which is either great at level 1 since you get an animal companion basically, or just something you can put equipment on once it's not useful anymore. A 2nd level gives you a order ability that might be good/bad based on your style and ideas.
Barbarian can be good as well, since you get fast movement. Rage isn't so useful except as hilarious uses to break down doors or if you are really scare of Will saves. A 2nd level would give you uncanny dodge, which is $$$, and a rage power. The rage power could be still mind or whatever you feel useful. The fatigue is always bad of course, but if you were to get caught turning it off when there's an encounter, you can cast spells instead of fighting.
Ranger might be good just to pick favored enemy humans. No combat feats unless you go 2 levels, but probably not worth that.
Gunslinger is probably the best. You get a gun (always fun), and in your case, you'd probably take a musket since you probably don't instead to do anymore levels, so the higher damage dice is the way to go. Mysterious Stranger is the best 1 level dip gunslinger archetype, since you can actually still do damage beyond just the dice, but a normal gunslinger does have gunslinger's dodge, so you can gain some quick AC versus ranged attacked when needed.
Just throwing ideas out there.
I don't know about taking the mysterious stranger -- quick clear is vital to not having a gun blow up on you, and if you aren't going to take 3 levels in gunslinger and take musket master then using a musket probably isn't the best choice available.
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No Magical Knack in PFS? That hurts!
I don't really play PFS myself, so someone please say something if I get anything wrong here, but in the general game, a mithral shirt will set you back 1,100gp, while a wand of Mage Armour (which should provide more than enough hour-long charges to cover your career until you can more happily cast in better armour) only sets you back 750gp, and has zero spell failure chance... not to mention working against all those incorporeal types too... Like I said, unless PFS changes the rules on such things.
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Agree with the general sentiment here...and chime in with my usual "D&D PrC holdovers are stinky-poo smelly -- avoid!"
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(Melee/w'HeavyArmor)1/Cleric[Crusader] of some deity with a domain which grants "signature" arcane spells will be more durable, have better AC, more feats (because he doesn't need Arcane Armor Training, et al), and 6th-level spells at PFS retirement. "Was it a Fireball or a Flame Strike? ...why yes; yes it was!"
Magus, of course, rocks in melee -- as does that InnerSeaMagic dawnflower dervish (who'd be an absurd +8/+8 at 12th if played straight class).
Various monk archetypes become quite wizard-like at higher level.
Just a quick list of fighter feats:
Spell Breaker, Disruptive, Greater shield focus, disrupting shot, impaling critical, pin down, point blank mastery, ray shield, shield specialization, greater shield specialization, teleport tactician, greater weapon focus, greater weapon specialization.
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The Goal: I want to be able to shift back and forth between melee and range. ...maybe one fight has good sniping points or a bottleneck and the next is just an open brawl with no room to hide) or from round to round (maybe I can't get to the front lines in one round and want to cast a spell on the way, maybe I take a crit to the gizzard and need to retreat and cast from the back).
Weapon usage will be focused on melee; ranged combat will be handled mostly with spells/wands (or abilities, as applicable).
Switch-hitter paladin (human):
STR:14
DEX:14
CON:12
INT:14
WIS:07
CHA+17
traits: Armor Expert, Dangerously Curious
01 pala1 Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot
02 bard1 [Dawnflower Dervish|InnerSeaMagic][Dervish Dance][Battle Dance]
03 fight1 Rapid Shot, Extra Traits [Defender of the Society, Maestro of the Society]
04 pala2 CHA>18
05 pala3 Power Attack
06 pala4
07 pala5 Manyshot
Weapons & armor: bardiche, scimitar, composite longbow, mithral breastplate, mithral quick draw light shield.
* Highly-skilled build with wide variety of weapons and tactics: S&B, 2hPA, archery.
* Precise Shot not taken since we do not fear melee, and most melee-bound opponents are within 30' of us (so move & attack).
* Dervish Dance requires a scimitar; but you can Battle Dance with anything so long as armor is light.
* Your mithral breastplate armor is treated as light, but it's still medium armor, and hence Defender of the Society's bonus applies.
* You won't have any high-end spells (save for Pal3, if anything on the list approximates a higher-level wiz/cle spell), but could own an awful lot of wands.
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(Melee/w'HeavyArmor)1/Cleric[Crusader] of some deity with a domain which grants "signature" arcane spells will be more durable, have better AC, more feats (because he doesn't need Arcane Armor Training, et al), and 6th-level spells at PFS retirement. "Was it a Fireball or a Flame Strike? ...why yes; yes it was!"
...Except it doesn't let me cast arcane spells. It lets me cast divine fireballs.
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Oh, don't want to be a goody-two-shoe, eh? <shrug> OK...play a Hidden Priest, and fake it. (Check out the badass art on p36 of Inner Sea Magic.)
Fighter1[Cad]/Cleric[Hidden]11
"Am I wizard? Why yes, yes I am!" (roll dice for uber Bluff check)
(Not sure if it's PFS legal, but you might be able to stack Crusader and Hidden]
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Magus, of course, rocks in melee -- as does that InnerSeaMagic dawnflower dervish (who'd be an absurd +8/+8 at 12th if played straight class).
Of course a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/ElK 6 is +9/+4 BAB at level 12, and casting as a level 10 Wizard (5th level spells), whereas a Bard or Magus would be +9/+4 BAB and casting spells a level lower... so it's swings and roundabouts, and depends on what you're after in the character.
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Magus, of course, rocks in melee -- as does that InnerSeaMagic dawnflower dervish (who'd be an absurd +8/+8 at 12th if played straight class).Of course a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/ElK 6 is +9/+4 BAB at level 12, and casting as a level 10 Wizard (5th level spells), whereas a Bard or Magus would be +9/+4 BAB and casting spells a level lower... so it's swings and roundabouts, and depends on what you're after in the character.
Yeah, but an EK can't do cool stuff like Spell Strike Vampiric Touch, or force multiple saves per round via Spell Strike Chill Touch and three Hasted attacks.
Bards eventually get their Inspire up as a move action, which makes their BAB penalty melt-away -- and have three times the skills once you factor in Versatile Performance a couple times. They're also full casters for level-dependent effects.
A human EK is relatively -7HP or -7skills from non-favored class levels.
I have played EK, and I have found out two things:
1. Transmuter is great for the extra spell, not for the ability boost. It's an enhancement bonus that does not stack with magic items, and you'll soon have these anyway.
2. You need to decide if you want to be
a) a fighter who augments his fighting prowess with spells for flexibility, boosts and out-of-combat usability
b) a caster who can fight
For variant a I would recommend a prepared caster variant like wizard. These types of casters can basically gather all spells available in the low levels. Since these are usually the most "useful" ones (not powerful) like boosts or protection, this adds a lot of flexibility to the character. Plus you can still use wands. EK is not so interesting with the PFS level cap though. Cooler for arcane archer if any prestige class at all.
For variant b you also got the option of prepared casters. I believe that sorcerer is quite viable though. Particularly the wild-blooded sage variant (lots of skills due to intelligence being the casting stat) or empyreal variant (wisdom being the casting stat, meaning great will saves, ability to multiclass into divine classes etc.) will be of great use there, though draconic is also always a great choice. If you went with a CHA-based sorcerer, the eldritch heritage tree is great to advance sorcerer powers as your character levels up (though it's probably not good with the PFS 12 level cap).
Sorcerer is great for spamming those spells that you like to have for every fight: shield (get the magical lineage trait for the shield spell to reduce metamagic cost by 1, plus the still spell feat to avoid spell failure chance), dimension door, true strike etc. There are quite a few useful spells without somatic components, for the rest you can get - and spontaneously apply if the spell really must work - still spell.
And just because someone mentioned cleric: It opens up the route to EK via the Holy Vindicator prestige class since that helps you meet the "all martial weapons proficiency" requirement. You could go cleric 1 (get two domains, cleric spells, cleric spell list for wands, small channeling etc.), empyreal sorcerer 6, holy vindicator 1, eldritch knight 4.
So possibly interesting combinations are IMO:
- fighter 1 / wiz 5 / EK 6 (classic)
- sage sorcerer 6 instead of wiz 5, then EK 5
- cavalier or samurai or paladin 1 / sorcerer 6 / EK 5
- cleric 1 / empreal sorcerer 6 / holy vindicator 1 / EK 4
- any martial class (except paladin) 1 / monk 1 / empyreal sorcer 6 / EK 4 (WIS bonus high due to sorcerer, monk ac bonus, flurry, monk weapons etc.)
- many other combinations...
Oh and don't forget: You can declare arcane strike when you hit first time, you don't need to state it beforehand (swift actions can be taken when you could take free actions), so you could still use the capstone in such a case if you scored critically.
Have fun :-)
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This is a non-standard Eldritch Knight build.
STR: 15 [7] DEX 14 [5] CON 13 [3], INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14+2 [7]
Sorcerer: Arcane Bloodline [Bonded Item: Bastard Sword]
Traits: History of Heresy [Will Save booster], Magical Lineage [Scorching Ray]
Favored Class: Sorcerer
Fighter 1st, Power Attack, EW Proficiency: Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword. +1+2+1-1=+3 to hit for 1d10+3+3
Sorcerer 1st, Shield spell, Magic Missile, 5 Cantrips (Favored Class), Bastard Sword becomes Masterwork. +1+2+1+1-1=+4 to hit for 1d10+3+3
Sorcerer 2nd, Fleet I (Surprisingly useful!) 2 Cantrips (Favored Class), +2+2+1+1-1=+5 to hit for 1d10+3+3+1, enchant sword to +1
Sorcerer 3rd, +1 STR, Grease, Identify, 1 Cantrip (Favored Class), STR Belt, +2+4+1+1-1=+7 to hit for 1d10+6+3+1
Sorcerer 4th, Scorching Ray, Still Spell, Expeditious Retreat,+3+2+1-1=+5 to hit for +3+4+1+1-1=+8 to hit for 1d10+6+3+1
Sorcerer 5th, Resist Energy, Invisibility, Ray of Sickening
Sorcerer 6th, Toppling Spell, Haste, Stone Call (Favored Class), +4+4+1+2-2=+9 to hit for 1d10+6+6+2, ench sword to +2
Eldritch Knight 1: +1 CON, Toughness, caster level 7 for Scorching Ray, +5+4+1+2-2=+10 to hit for 1d10+6+6+2
Eldritch Knight 2: Lightning Bolt, Create Pit, Ray of Enfeeblement, Vital Strike, +6+5+1+2-2=+12 to hit for 2d10+7+6+2, or +12/+7 to hit for 1d10+7+6+2, Upgrade STR belt to +4.
Eldritch Knight 3: Cantrip, Black Tentacles. Ench sword to +3, +7+4+1+3-2=+13 to hit for 2d10+7+6+3, or +13/+8 to hit for 1d10+7+6+3.
Eldritch Knight 4: Protection From Arrows, Fly, Summon Monster IV, Empower Spell or Arcane Strike, +8+4+1+3-3=+13 to hit for 2d10+7+9+3+3, or +13/+8 to hit for 1d10+7+9+3+3.
Eldritch Knight 5: Stoneskin, Communal, Caster level 11 for Scorching Ray. Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword, +9+4+1+3-3=+14 to hit for 2d10+7+9+3+3+2, or +14/+9 to hit for 1d10+7+9+3+3+2.
This character is not a skill monkey. At all. In any way, shape or form.
As a meleeist, you're usually running around with a Shield spell, and a Bastard sword, while wearing a chain shirt (and eventually a mithral breastplate) to keep moving at 35 or 65' per round once you can cast Still Expeditious Retreat. That's a base AC of 22 before any enchantments on the armor.
Your first level spell spots are more or less useless, so use them on things where you won't care if you blow an ASF. Getting Expeditious Retreat on in the first round of a fight is useful, but seldom critical.
Because of the Arcane bloodline arcana, any time you use a Metamagic ability on a spell (which will be most of the time, due to armor and Still Spell), you add 1 to the save DC of the spell, which effectively turns your CHA of 16 into a CHA of 18 for casting purposes, which helps make up for the MAD.
The third level bloodline ability to cast a metamagically enhanced spell without increasing casting time, coupled with Fleet, allows you to move 35' or 65' and cast a Scorching Ray once per day, which can be a lifesaver.
Because this character gets a pretty high BAB, primary spell offense is the Ray spells.
The 5th level spell was chosen because it's one that A) is a good party buff, and B) lasts long enough that you can take off the armor, cast it, and put the armor back on. For the most part, your 5th level spell slots will be used for Still Empowered Scorching Rays.
If you want something different, you could try Fighter 1/Witch 6 (strenght patron) with hexes beneficial to you (Fortune, Ward, Flight, Prehensile hair for a shield, etc.).
Don't bother with hexes affecting others since your save DC will be lame.
The spell list is quite ok actually - Looking only at the witch specific spells you get Beguiling gift for easy disarms, Ill Omen, Perceive cues is always nice to have up and Screech combined with combat reflexes and a good dex is scary.
Could be fun, actually.
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This is a non-standard Eldritch Knight build.
STR: 15 [7] DEX 14 [5] CON 13 [3], INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14+2 [7]
Um, that 14 CHA costs 5 points, not 7 - though the array does fit in 20pt.
I'll probably go with stats along those lines (possibly moving the +2 to STR).
Sorcerer: Arcane Bloodline [Bonded Item: Bastard Sword]
Heh, I was seriously considering using a Bastard Sword.
I'll probably post a rough build idea later today.
This is a non-standard Eldritch Knight build.
STR: 15 [7] DEX 14 [5] CON 13 [3], INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14+2 [7]
Um, that 14 CHA costs 5 points, not 7 - though the array does fit in 20pt.
I'll probably go with stats along those lines (possibly moving the +2 to STR).[/b]
Good catch! I guess that means that at level 12, you take a +1 CHA to get it up to 18 base, and 20-22 with a circlet (22 gets you a bonus 2nd level spell slot.)
Sorcerer: Arcane Bloodline [Bonded Item: Bastard Sword]Heh, I was seriously considering using a Bastard Sword.
I'll probably post a rough build idea later today.
If you can't get your strength mod over +5, a bastard sword and Falcata are roughly equal.
This character is a serious wand user. Wands of Shield are particularly useful. True Strike may be more useful than Shield at low levels since it has no ASF percentage, and remains useful for a very long time.
It is almost worth the -2 to use a Large bastard sword, with True Strike, at lower levels. (Mathematically, it certainly is worth it; the question is whether or not it makes the game fun for anyone else.)
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Alright, rough build idea version 1:
Human (or Ancestral Arms Half-Elf, depending on if I want the skill ranks or the other features)
STR 17 (15+2)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 07
Traits: Undecided
00:Human bonus feat: EWP(Bastard Sword)
01:Fighter1[Bonus Feat:Dodge], Toughness
02:Wizard1[Bonded Item:Bastard Sword][Specialty School:Foresight or Air(Elementalist)][Bonus Feat:Spell Focus]
03:Wizard2, Arcane Strike[+1]
04:Wizard3[2nd level spells][STR+1=18]
05:Wizard4, Arcane Armor Training
06:Wizard5[3rd level spells][Arcane Strike +2]
Then EK from here on out.
Thoughts?
Still Spell is more generally useful than Arcane Armor Training, albeit more so for a spontaneous caster than for a prepared one.
1) Both Arcane Strike and Arcane Armor Training take a Swift Action. While it's unlikely that you'll want to do both on the same turn, it does prevent a few other Swift actions.
2) One feat completely nullifies all ASF. Casting in full plate. Couple this with Mithral Full Plate and the Sash of the War Champion and you get full movement and ludicrous AC.
3) Pick your signature offensive spell and make it one you can get to early. If it's a ray spell, Weapon Focus: Ray and Point Blank Shot might be useful.
4) If your weapon's die size is a d10 or greater, Vital Strike pays out well as a feat. I do appreciate builds that don't take Power Attack, because it might as well be printed on the character sheet for fighters. :)
5) You may want to swap out Dodge for Combat Expertise and take Threatening Defender as a starting trait. Same net effect on your AC, and you can take Dodge later. I'd say this set you up for improved Feint, but...CHA of 7.
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Just had a thought... Wand of Shield on a weapon cord, along with the Foresight school's ability to always act in the surprise round... Maybe I should replace Dodge with Improved Initiative and take an init-boosting trait (total of +9 initiative, IIRC) and always act in the surprise round, starting with Shielding myself.
I think I like that idea...
"Always Going First, no matter what" is an excellent schtick for a diviner/EK - I think you'll enjoy Improved Initiative more than the +1 AC from Dodge.
And pre-rolling a d20 roll at the top of the round is extremely handy. If it's a crappy roll, don't use it. If it's an awesome roll, you can adjust your plans for the round accordingly.
At a cap of level 12, I don't think you'll run into too many issues with wanting/needing more than 1 swift action each round. If you're casting, you can use it on AAT and if you're swinging your sword you can use it on AS. It becomes an issue with the EK's capstone spell critical ability, but that's moot for Society play.
And using the surprise round to nearly always cast shield upon yourself is an excellent idea.
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"Always Going First, no matter what" is an excellent schtick for a diviner/EK - I think you'll enjoy Improved Initiative more than the +1 AC from Dodge.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I agree.
And pre-rolling a d20 roll at the top of the round is extremely handy.
Too bad I can't use Prescience for the initiative roll!
EDIT: Come to think of it, though, if I settle for a longsword instead of a bastard sword, I could have Improved Initiative and Dodge...
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I'd just like to chime in that the Agile weapon property from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide could be helpful for reducing the MAD here.
It is legal, and it's always something I think about, but...
It'll cost me a total of 8,300gp (and change) to get an Agile weapon. I'll also need sufficient Fame for that purchase, which (I don't have th Guide in front of me) is something like level 5. And besides the Fame restriction, there's the cost itself, with a character already planning to buy (and presumably enchant) mithral armor. I'm gonna be strapped for cash as it is.
So I'd have to be a real penny-pincher, and spend 4 levels dealing no damage beyond my weapon die (and a small die at that, given the need for a finessable weapon). I'd rather deal 1d8+4 and up than spend 4 levels dealing 1d6+1 so that I can eventually deal 1d6+5 and have +1 to my save DCs.
A reshuffle of my Sorcerer build, because I'm entertained by it.
I'm trying to get evenly set between Casty and Smashy.
STR: 15 [7] DEX 14 [5] CON 13 [3], INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14+2=16 [5]
Sorcerer: Arcane Bloodline [Bonded Item: Bastard Sword]
Traits: History of Heresy [Will Save booster], Magical Lineage [Scorching Ray]
Favored Class: Sorcerer
Fighter 1st, Power Attack, EW Proficiency: Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword.
Melee: +1+2+1-1=+3 to hit for 1d10+3+3
After 1st adventure, buy masterwork bastard sword.
After 3rd adventure, sell off armor and shield, and spend 2 PA for a wand of Mage Armor.
Sorcerer 1st, Shield spell, Magic Missile, 5 Cantrips (Favored Class), Melee: +1+2+1+1-1=+4 to hit for 1d10+3+3.
Sorcerer 2nd, Fleet I (Surprisingly useful!) 2 Cantrips (Favored Class), Melee: +2+2+1+1-1=+5 to hit for 1d10+3+3+1
Ranged: Magic Missile
Equipment: Enchant sword to +1 (Because it's your bonded item, this is the ONLY item crafting allowed in PFS)
Sorcerer 3rd, +1 STR, Grease, Identify, 1 Cantrip (Favored Class)
Melee: +2+4+1+1-1=+7 to hit for 1d10+6+3+1
Ranged: Magic Missile x2
Equipment: +2 STR Belt (first big purchase)
Sorcerer 4th, Scorching Ray, Still Spell, Expeditious Retreat,
Melee: +3+4+1+1-1=+8 to hit for 1d10+6+3+1
Ranged: Magic Missile x2, or Scorching Ray at 3+2=+5 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Mithral Breastplate, possibly +1.
Sorcerer 5th, Resist Energy (10 min/level buff), Invisibility, Ray of Sickening (Favored Class), True Strike (No ASF)
Melee: +3+4+1+2-1=+9 to hit for 1d10+6+3+2
Ranged: Magic Missile x3, or Scorching Ray at 3+2=+5 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Enchant sword to +2
Sorcerer 6th, Toppling Spell, Haste, Stone Call (Favored Class),
Melee: +4+4+1+3-2=+10 to hit for 1d10+6+6+3.
Ranged: Magic Missile x3, or Scorching Ray at 4+2=+6 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Enchant sword to +3, +2 CHA circlet
Eldritch Knight 1: +1 CON, Toughness,
Melee: +5+4+1+3-2=+11 to hit for 1d10+6+6+5
Ranged: Magic Missile x4, or Scorching Ray x 2 at 5+3=+8 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Improve STR belt to STR+CON belt, or STR+CON+DEX belt if wealth permits.
Eldritch Knight 2: Vital Strike. Lightning Bolt, Create Pit, Ray of Enfeeblement
Melee: +6+4+1+3-2=+13 to hit for 2d10+6+6+3, or +13/+8 to hit for 1d10+6+6+3
Ranged: Magic Missile x4, or Scorching Ray x 2 at 6+3=+9 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Sash of the War Champion, Mithral Full Plate +1 or +2
Eldritch Knight 3: Cantrip, Black Tentacles.
Melee: +7+4+1+4-2=+14 to hit for 2d10+6+6+4, or +14/+9 to hit for 1d10+6+6+4
Ranged: Magic Missile x5, or Scorching Ray x 2 at 7+3=+10 vs Touch AC, or 9d6 Still Lightning Bolt at a save DC of 10+3+5+1=19
Equipment: Enchant sword to +4, +4 CHA circlet.
Eldritch Knight 4: Empower Spell or Arcane Strike, Protection From Arrows, Fly, Summon Monster IV,
Melee: +8+4+1+4-3=+14 to hit for 2d10+6+9+4+3, or +14/+9 to hit for 1d10+6+9+4+3.
Ranged: Magic Missile x5, or Scorching Ray x 2 at 8+3=+11 vs Touch AC, or 10d6 Still Lightning Bolt at a save DC of 10+3+5+1=19
Equipment: No idea. Probably armor upgrade enchantments.
Eldritch Knight 5: +1 CHA, Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword. Stoneskin, Communal,
Melee: +9+4+1+5-3=+16 to hit for 2d10+6+9+5+3+2, or +16/+11 to hit for 1d10+6+9+5+3+2.
Ranged: Magic Missile x5, or Scorching Ray x 3 at 9+3=+12 vs Touch AC, or 10d6 Still Lightning Bolt at a save DC of 10+3+6+1=20
Equipment: Enchant sword to +5 if not there already...manual for +1 CHA.
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I'd just like to chime in that the Agile weapon property from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide could be helpful for reducing the MAD here.It is legal, and it's always something I think about, but...
It'll cost me a total of 8,300gp (and change) to get an Agile weapon. I'll also need sufficient Fame for that purchase, which (I don't have th Guide in front of me) is something like level 5. And besides the Fame restriction, there's the cost itself, with a character already planning to buy (and presumably enchant) mithral armor. I'm gonna be strapped for cash as it is.
So I'd have to be a real penny-pincher, and spend 4 levels dealing no damage beyond my weapon die (and a small die at that, given the need for a finessable weapon). I'd rather deal 1d8+4 and up than spend 4 levels dealing 1d6+1 so that I can eventually deal 1d6+5 and have +1 to my save DCs.
You can always tier up if there's the choice. I always tier up if I can. Risking death for more money is right up my alleyway.
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For one thing, AdAstraGames, you're rocking a 22pt build there. ;)
Second, I just noticed that your melee damage math involves attacking two-handed with the bastard sword. But that can be done with martial proficiency (which the fighter level has). You only need to burn the feat on EWP if you want to one-hand it.
I'm kind of torn on Still Spell. It'd be helpful early on (when I have 10% ASF), but once I have a mithral breastplate, it's a choice between spending a feat on AAT and having 5% ASF; or spending a feat on Still Spell and having all my spells but one need to be prepared in higher slots - meaning I'm effectively down one spell level at all times.
I think I'm more inclined to use my early feat for something else, suffer through the 10% ASF for a few levels, and then spend my level 5 feat to upgrade my armor while dropping to 5% ASF.
Unless you can make a really strong case for Still Spell instead.
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You can always tier up if there's the choice. I always tier up if I can. Risking death for more money is right up my alleyway.
If your GM is doing things right, you only have the option if your table's APL happens to fall into the one-level gap that some scenarios have between subtiers. So in a Tier 1-5 scenario (subtiers 1-2 and 4-5) you'd have to have APL 3 to choose to play up.
Doesn't happen that often.