
sleepydm |
I'm starting up an online game with two newbs and two others with slightly more experience, and I'm getting the feeling that maybe we ought to quit while we're ahead.
I laid the groundwork about 3 weeks ago, and it worries that we're still waiting on a people to finish their character sheets. I remember when my older brother introduced me, then in my teens, to 3.5 and it only took two days for him to teach me the rules and for me to figure the rest out on my own. Granted, distance is a factor in addition to the fact that the two newbs had to buy the rulebook (at the time I didn't know about the PRD), but it really seems like feet are being dragged here. It's not like they couldn't have Skype'd me if they needed a hand-holding.
When I offered my little sister (16) a chance to play, I tried to make it all contractual. "Ya gotta promise that if you play, you'll understand the rules, know what your character can do, make an effort, be self-motivated, yaddayadda." I said this many times in many variations, and there were "yes"'s all around. A few days ago I was riding her like a horse trying to get her to finish, quizzing her on various things like range increments, feats, class abilities, etc. I couldn't imagine why there was all this resistance to finishing a task, expected weeks in advance, that ought to take at most an hour, tops. It wasn't even a spellcaster.
So even with the complications of distance and newbishness, this still seems to take an inordinately long time. If the players had really wanted to play, why all the reluctance to get started? Are my expectations too much for what's a really a very complex game? I can't help but wonder if I'm missing a very obvious signal that's indicating lack of player interest, like they're just indulging a friend rather than really wanting to play the game.

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Sometimes it's easier to learn by starting with a base understanding of the concepts (movements, actions per round, what the numbers mean - AC, saves, attacks, damage, hit points, etc.) and get the deeper details (range increments, modifiers to DCs, etc.) as you play.
I wouldn't expect new players to have a very comprehensive understanding of the rules. There is a LOT to take in.
As for why it seems your new players aren't prepping as much as you like, one can only guess. You might want to communicate directly with them about it, and if the complicated rules are part of the problem, then make sure they have the base concepts down and watch their understanding of the deeper details as you play.

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I can't speak to the specifics of your cast of characters/players, but every online play by email game I have been in has dragged enormously compared to what one can usually do with a group of people sitting around a table top. My suggestion would be to establish a hard deadline for them, and let them know that if there are too many "no shows" that you'll simply cancel the campaign.

Darthnny |
Get character concepts and then play. Fill in the character sheets as you game. Create a blank sheet for each character and as you play give them stats. Ask the players what their characters are doing and how good they are at it. That might help them get an idea of what their characters are and who they want to play. Start the game off with some action to get them hooked. Usually if they are not interested they will come up with an excuse on why they can't play. You'll know pretty quickly.
Nny

Iced2k |

When I offered my little sister (16) a chance to play, I tried to make it all contractual. "Ya gotta promise that if you play, you'll understand the rules, know what your character can do, make an effort, be self-motivated, yaddayadda." I said this many times in many variations, and there were "yes"'s all around. A few days ago I was riding her like a horse trying to get her to finish, quizzing her on various things like range increments, feats, class abilities, etc. I couldn't imagine why there was all this resistance to finishing a task, expected weeks in advance, that ought to take at most an hour, tops. It wasn't even a spellcaster.
The last thing your 16 year old sister needs is to start playing Dungeons and Dragons...
Why stunt her socially like that on purpose?

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When introducing players to the game you will need to handhold for a while. Some players just want to play and don't care about the rules. As a DM you sometimes have to work with what you have.
I had a player who was new to 3rd ed and who had only played 1st ed for a few months back in the day. He wanted to be a wizard. We played for a few years through level 15 and even then I needed to explain basic stuff to him.
All my players in that game never really mastered the rules. As DM you will generally know much more about the rules than the players.

Count_Rugen |
When introducing players to the game you will need to handhold for a while. Some players just want to play and don't care about the rules. As a DM you sometimes have to work with what you have.
I had a player who was new to 3rd ed and who had only played 1st ed for a few months back in the day. He wanted to be a wizard. We played for a few years through level 15 and even then I needed to explain basic stuff to him.
All my players in that game never really mastered the rules. As DM you will generally know much more about the rules than the players.
This.
Important part bolded.Rules (especially in complex systems like PF) are the number 1 thing which holds back many interested people from ever joining the hobby. Walk them thru char creation (or just give them prefabs after finding out what they want to play) using the free online char gen. Some GMs are rather analytical and take to heavy math well, and tragically expect everyone to be like that. Most people aren't.
Know your players and know your role. Sounds like a couple of yours have no interest in learning the rules and just want to game. These are almost always the best players in my experience. :)

thegreenteagamer |

karkon wrote:When introducing players to the game you will need to handhold for a while. Some players just want to play and don't care about the rules.This.
Important part bolded.Rules (especially in complex systems like PF) are the number 1 thing which holds back many interested people from ever joining the hobby. Walk them thru char creation (or just give them prefabs after finding out what they want to play) using the free online char gen. Some GMs are rather analytical and take to heavy math well, and tragically expect everyone to be like that. Most people aren't.
Know your players and know your role. Sounds like a couple of yours have no interest in learning the rules and just want to game. These are almost always the best players in my experience. :)
In MY experience these players would be better served playing a different game. PF is great, but it IS rules heavy. Personally I like the multitude of complexities and the challenge of optimization and the like, but rules light systems can be just as fun...even more so for newbies and the less rules lawyer inclined.
Savage Worlds is a cinch. D&D |4th is pretty much marketed to a youmger audience. (I cant stand it but it was easy to learn, I'll give it that.) Its not like there's only one way to play.
st00ji |
everyone is different, but for me -
when im excited about a new campaign or whatever, then i think about it all the time. if the DM is open to it i'll be emailing them on a regular basis between tabletop meetings with various things.
if you havent heard a peep in three weeks from your players, its time to find new players.
as for the rules, i personally learn best by DOING. getting a basic understanding of how a system works makes it much easier to digest more complex rules as i relate them back to my own experiences. so if people are intimidated by the weighty tome that is the CRB, perhaps you need to just get into a game as was suggested above?

Kolokotroni |

Get to know your players and their tendencies. This may just be their way. There are members of my group that jump all over a new campaign idea and have a character built and ready a few hours after it is announced. There are others that just want to play and will make their character the day of. It isnt a failing on their part. Not everyone WANTS to think about RPGs hours every day. Most of us here on these boards obviously spend alot of time thinking about our games, or our characters, or the stories going on. Otherwise we wouldnt be here posting about pathfinder. But of my group, only I post here regularly, and only 2 others post here at all out of 10 people.
It isnt really a matter of you being ready or the group being ready, it is a matter of mentality and priorities.

Black Moria |

Sometimes, you just have to set a deadline. My experience is that if a deadline isn't set, most people assume the game will start whenever it is mutually decided and the end result is it takes forever to get the consensus to start.
Even I, for one online game, sat around waiting for the DM to announce the start, only to find out after several weeks, the DM was waiting for each of us to state we were ready to go. Simple miscommunication.
Tell the players that they have one week to finish their preparations and the game goes live on "insert date". Then see who shows for the session and go from there.

Orgavin |
When I offered my little sister (16) a chance to play, I tried to make it all contractual. "Ya gotta promise that if you play, you'll understand the rules, know what your character can do, make an effort, be self-motivated, yaddayadda." I said this many times in many variations, and there were "yes"'s all around. A few days ago I was riding her like a horse trying to get her to finish. quizzing her on various things like range increments, feats, class abilities, etc. I couldn't imagine why there was all this resistance to finishing a task, expected weeks in advance, that ought to take at most an hour, tops. It wasn't even a spellcaster.
How did you accomplish this? When I rode my sister like a horse, all I got was placed on this registry that keeps me from getting jobs.
In all seriousness, if you are playing on line. Be ready for SLOW play.