Is it possible for Paizo to make a new PDF (even if it's not free) of more classes for BB?
I'd want Paladin, Druid, Sorcerer and Ranger, if it's possible.
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I asked about the Ranger class in a different post, but I like this idea. I'd pay $10 to $20 for a beginners box expansion that had those classes in it, plus perhaps stats for half elves and halflings, and a few more opponents.
As I said in the other post, this is as much about the format of the BB classes as trying to get stuff on the cheap. Actually, it's more about the format. I really like it, and my players do, too.
By the way, to me, all these requests for more BB-format products are a sign that the BB is successful, and that maybe it can be expanded on, sort of like the (dare I say the name) other game company is doing with the essentials series, but in a better way!
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I wholehaeartedly agree. If there was a ranger or a druid, or halflings or gnomes, I can easily see my son expanding his character repertoire. Right now, he's elves (rogue, barbarian) all the way (which has always been my default race of choice, as well), and my nephew had thrown his lot in with the dwarves (fighter & wizard).
I think that all the freedom that we're used to in Pathfinder is kind of grating when we're teaching beginners to play and we want to show them this huge world of opportunity... and we've oly got humans, dwarves and elves, fighters, clerics, rogues, wizards and barbarians.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the beginner box. I've been having a great time GMing for these two. But I've been thinking about opening up races and a few classes from Pathfinder.
- Rich
This might sound like a stupid question, as I don't have the Beginner Box myself, so I don't know.
But I thought it's the PF rules and all, just all in one place or so and made easy for beginners? So can't you just take the Ranger or other classes/races from the SRD and play with that?
This might sound like a stupid question, as I don't have the Beginner Box myself, so I don't know.
But I thought it's the PF rules and all, just all in one place or so and made easy for beginners? So can't you just take the Ranger or other classes/races from the SRD and play with that?
I think what they are saying is that they want a nice neat character sheet like the ones in the box.
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There is the Beginner Box Player Pack and the Beginner Box GM kit that provides some more materiel for free. I think they have the barbarian class in there. While this may not be exactly what you are looking for the Pathfinder Core Rule Book PDF only costs 9.99, and from that PDF it should be very easy to adapt the ranger sorcerer or whatever you want to the beginner box. Quatar had an even better idea then mine..the SRD sounds like a great source, and its free.
I hope this helps
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I agree, there should be more classes in the thing, especially the sorcerer, oracle and Paladin. The Paladin is an iconic class of D&D and pathfinder, just as much as the fighter, rogue wizard and cleric are and if your going for the iconic classes I see no reason to leave the Paladin out of the picture. Secondly, I think that they should have really added either the sorc or oracle. The reason? While the wizard and cleric are great classes, the Beginner Box is made to teach people the game, and I must say that as far as casters go it is FAR easier for a beginner to handle a sorc or oracle. If I had my way wizard and cleric, despite being more iconic, would not be included and instead replaced with the sorc and oracle. Those classes can fill roughly the same functions and are FAR easier to grasp then the prepared casting and mirade of options that come with the wizard and cleric.
I'm also willing to pay for some extra BB support- whether classes, or a (for the tenth time I've probably mentioned it here or on ENWORLD), a "Expert" expansion set, and BB modules.
I have the PF core rule book as well as a few other PF hardcovers, but I'd rather pay to have the work done professionally, in the the same layout, and with the streamlined rules format of the BB. I'm sure it's hard for some people to fathom, but not all of us want, need, or are hardcore enough to enjoy, a game with a 600+ page rulebook.
I loves me some Beginner Box! :D
Paladin may be iconic, but honestly it's hard to play with the code and all that, and I certainly wouldn't say it's a "beginner" class. So I can see why it was left out.
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Nature's Champions pack: Barbarian, Ranger, Druid & Sorcerer (fey blooded or dragon blooded). Half-Orc and Gnome added to races. Throw in a wilderness adventure advice for GMs and a Hexploration adventure included. Add Survival skill, plus more feats.
Urban Heroes: Bard, Monk and Paladin. Add half-elf and halfling races. Advice for Running urban and mystery adventures. Add combat manoeuvers. Throw in a mystery adventure.
By this point the Players will either bs ready to play the full game or they won't.
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Of course, your mileage may vary, but I have found that it is not a matter of being ready for the "advanced" rules, so much as it is not wanting to add additional layers of complexity.
I have played every version of The Game, save the new, shiny edition, which I do not care for.
From the little brown books, to the pinkish boxed set, to the Advanced books, to 2nd edition, to 3.5.
I have tried, or read, most of the retro-clones.
I have mixed The Game with Gamma World, with WWII,even with Star Trek.
(Imagine being shot into the vacuum of space while wearing a Ring of Regeneration.I know...things were different in the 80's.)
I have played so many RPG systems through the years these new fangled,complex, modern rules systems do not scare me.
I am ready for the Big Books.I like the Big Books.
It is simply a matter of the elegant simplicity, wrapped up in a glossy, bright, candy-like package, that is easily digestible, easily portable, and supported by an awesome company like Paizo, that I like the Beginners Box.
I would like to use the BB rules to play an entire campaign up to a high level.Retire.Lather.Rinse.Repeat.
I don't want to have to censor and house rule the removal of interwoven, complex rule blocks from Pathfinder.Rules that I don't like, or don't want to use, so that it resembles the BB, only to find out that I broke the system somewhere.
Sure, Home-brewing is always a possibility,and somebody might do this with the BB rules as written, but I love what they have done with the BB.
I love how they did it with the BB.
I want more of the BB.
Just the way it is, only more of it.
I will pay more for the BB.
I don't think I am alone in these feelings.
I know,I have read the other posts that say it will not happen, and the reasons why, so all the balloon-popping posts can suck it.
Just giving my most humble opinion, and wishing for more of the good stuff.
+1
I totally agree with you. I play HERO System. I have played Rolemaster before. I am not afraid of rules heavy systems. I have been playing PFRPG regularly (about once a week or so) for over a year now. It is not that I can't or won't play the full game. I would just prefer a lighter version of the game. I am getting interested in Swords & Wizardry for this reason. I am really interested in Savage Worlds right now for this reason. I really like the PF classes (especially the Magus) and I really like Golarion. I just don't want to spend the time to port Golarion to another system and I don't want to spend the time disentangling the rules in order to make the system lighter. Paizo has a good start with the BB. I would like to see a BB #2 which adds classes and bumps the level cap.
Paizo has said repeatedly that they won't do this, however. They don't want to split the player base like TSR did with multiple games and numerous settings. I am sure they are also looking at failure of D&D Essentials as an example of what not to do. Evil Lincoln and several others have suggested a middle ground. According to some Paizo representatives the rules are supposed to be modular. I would like to see the CRB (Core Rulebook) reformatted so that modularity is obvious. That way we can easily move beyond the BB, keeping it rules light, without splitting the player base.
I'm not sure I agree with additional BB support is a splitting of the player/fan base as TSR did.
TSR had two very different products in their D&D line, vs. the AD&D line.
D&D was the simpler more free wheeling game with less emphasis on rules, yes, however it differed markedly from AD&D in things other than AC9 vs AC10, and race as a class. Eventually TSR with the mentzer era sets and beyond spun off an entirely divergent game- that had it's own wholly different (from AD&D) skills/proficiency system, it's own mass combat system, a whole different "end game" as regards to epic level play, a different level structure for PCs, a wholly new campaign setting with several boxed set expansions and sourcebooks, as well as treading the ground of new module lines (several each, for each set of the BECMI rules), DM screens, character sheets, weirder stuff of the latter line like the boxed boardgame-ish sets (dragon's den, etc), the D&D cartoon tie-ins, the Solo adventures with and without invisible ink entries, etc etc etc.
You can check out all that stuff at the following link to see what I'm talking about
http://tomeoftreasures.com/tot_dnd/classic_main.htm
I don't think any of the Paizo BB proponents are asking for ANYTHING remotely close to the business model (and resulting product line) that that TSR did with (OD&D) line through the 1980s and early 1990s. The BB is almost entirely if not wholly compatible from a rules standpoint with the Core PF rules. The BB is a clarified, and simplified version of the same game rules and mechanics as the core game-eliminating the more unwieldy and difficult to grasp concepts, while providing a cleaner layout that many of us love. It is not a completely different game/product line as the TSR era BECMI sets compared to the AD&D line.
I suspect most of us ( I know I am at the least), are simply asking for (and willing to pay for!) more expansions under this new layout/format, whether it be classes, races, spells, items, feats, monsters, adventures, etc. And all these would be entirely compatible with the core rules.
My 2 lunars.
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Is it possible for Paizo to make a new PDF (even if it's not free) of more classes for BB?
That was my only complaint about the basic box. i was hoping it would have a few class out of the apg or UC. I think that the Cav(Sam) and gunslinger are simple enough. Also I think the orical and alcamist would make great simple Classes. I think it is all the options that make them more complex.
But I agree I was very sad to see that he ranger and paladin where not in it. I have always though that the wizard was much more complicated then the sorc. So i do not understand that desition.
Preach it, brothers!!
This is what im sayin.
The BB takes me back to the simpler times without being simple, and it takes care of the glaring issues that the old systems had.
The retro clones are great, in their own ways, but I feel that I might as well just pull out my old books and play the originals.Plus,in trying to be truly "retro", these clones look like photocopies of my high school notebooks, doodle dragons, and sketch dungeons.
Nothing wrong with that,just the romance of the old school looks better in a glossy box, with full color books,pawns, and a dry erase map.
As a testament to its drawing power, I showed it to one of my old gaming buddies, expecting him to turn his nose up at it.He was genuinely interested in playing it.
And then I told him it goes up to 5th level, and then you gotta buy the big book.
Goodbye interest."Why do you have to buy another book to do what the box does?"
was the response.I understand about not splitting the product lines.I lived through all that, and went through the good, and really bad, times of TSR stuff.(Castle Greyhawk anyone...oh the horror..)
Wouldn't want that. But I would love to see more Pathfinder stuff in BB form.A modular rulebook is a great idea.One stop shopping, with something for everyone.
I would buy that too.
You don't need the CRB - don't forget about PRD...
Not that I wouldn't like to see the CRB revised and cleared, but it probably won't happen till some major revision is announced. Just imagine the sheer number of documents that reference the book for example.
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I'm not sure I agree with additional BB support is a splitting of the player/fan base as TSR did.
TSR had two very different products in their D&D line, vs. the AD&D line.
D&D was the simpler more free wheeling game with less emphasis on rules, yes, however it differed markedly from AD&D in things other than AC9 vs AC10, and race as a class. Eventually TSR with the mentzer era sets and beyond spun off an entirely divergent game- that had it's own wholly different (from AD&D) skills/proficiency system, it's own mass combat system, a whole different "end game" as regards to epic level play, a different level structure for PCs, a wholly new campaign setting with several boxed set expansions and sourcebooks, as well as treading the ground of new module lines (several each, for each set of the BECMI rules), DM screens, character sheets, weirder stuff of the latter line like the boxed boardgame-ish sets (dragon's den, etc), the D&D cartoon tie-ins, the Solo adventures with and without invisible ink entries, etc etc etc.
You can check out all that stuff at the following link to see what I'm talking about
http://tomeoftreasures.com/tot_dnd/classic_main.htm
I don't think any of the Paizo BB proponents are asking for ANYTHING remotely close to the business model (and resulting product line) that that TSR did with (OD&D) line through the 1980s and early 1990s. The BB is almost entirely if not wholly compatible from a rules standpoint with the Core PF rules. The BB is a clarified, and simplified version of the same game rules and mechanics as the core game-eliminating the more unwieldy and difficult to grasp concepts, while providing a cleaner layout that many of us love. It is not a completely different game/product line as the TSR era BECMI sets compared to the AD&D line.
I suspect most of us ( I know I am at the least), are simply asking for (and willing to pay for!) more expansions under this new layout/format, whether it be classes, races, spells, items, feats, monsters, adventures, etc. And all these...
I am on the same page with you. I am not asking for the second coming of TSR and their business model. The BB is entirely compatible with the CRB and should remain that way. I like the layout of the BB very much and want more of PFRPG presented using this, or a similar layout. I want to take the BB version of the game to level 20. I also want to see all the races and classes (not to mention all the spells) presented using the BB format. I am not asking for the D&D vs. AD&D split which TSR had. Both of them should use the Golarion setting. That one world is enough. Let the 3PPs make other settings. The various different settings for D&D were cool, but most people only ever played one or two. TSR had too many settings.
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Nature's Champions pack: Barbarian, Ranger, Druid & Sorcerer (fey blooded or dragon blooded). Half-Orc and Gnome added to races. Throw in a wilderness adventure advice for GMs and a Hexploration adventure included. Add Survival skill, plus more feats.
Urban Heroes: Bard, Monk and Paladin. Add half-elf and halfling races. Advice for Running urban and mystery adventures. Add combat manoeuvers. Throw in a mystery adventure.
By this point the Players will either bs ready to play the full game or they won't.
Ka-ching! That's a great combination! Add some natural opponents and outdoor adventures and some urban opponents and city adventures to each one respectively, and I'd shell out $20 bucks each for them, and be happy! As long as the format is the same as the BB, which I've found I like more every day--and, I've begun to realize that similar products from the other game company just tick me off with their complexity...
Nature's Champions pack: Barbarian, Ranger, Druid & Sorcerer (fey blooded or dragon blooded). Half-Orc and Gnome added to races. Throw in a wilderness adventure advice for GMs and a Hexploration adventure included. Add Survival skill, plus more feats.
Urban Heroes: Bard, Monk and Paladin. Add half-elf and halfling races. Advice for Running urban and mystery adventures. Add combat manoeuvers. Throw in a mystery adventure.
By this point the Players will either bs ready to play the full game or they won't.
>BUMP<
Another vote for this idea. I think you need to rethink your decision on this Paizo! As many others have said both here and on other forums, it's the presentation that people like.
I'd like to see a couple of things.
1)Themed class packs as Dudemeister suggests which expand our race and class options, with the appropriate feats, spells, etc to expand the BB system. Again, not a divergent product line, but a simplified one, to cater to those who don't have the time or desire to learn the complexity of the Core PF system.
2) BB Adventure Paths, again in the snazzy BB format. You could also dual-stat your APs, or maybe put an appendix in the back with the stat blocks for BB.
I'd buy some of this stuff, really I would, but I won't on PF Core products. I'm too old and time-crunched to invest in the minutia of the system.
Why not download some of the community created classes to incorporate? I'm currently running the Crypt of the Everflame module using Beginner Box rules and a community created Paladin and Druid class.
Why?
Because my entire group is new to Pathfinder, so the Beginner Box presented a good starting point. Several of us played through the included adventure with the premades, but after we had a completely new player join who was interested in a paladin (so I downloaded it) and one of the other players was interested in a druid (so I downloaded it). I'm using a converted Crypt of the Everflame to introduce the new guy since the others have been through the BB adventure...and I plan on phasing in full core rules as the adventure progresses.
As for the community options, they seem pretty solid and are very "Beginner Boxish". There is a PDF of a pregen Barbarian and Paladin on these forums that gives you a printable character sheet identical to the ones that Paizo provides. I can provide a Druid pregen if anyone is interested as I created one for my player.
-edit-
Link to the Amiri and Seelah Pregens
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I would be remiss if I were not to point you in the direction of EdoWar's Blog where he has done almost all the Classes in BB style. He only has Samurai and Ninja remaining.
He has also posted templates of the classes, races, feats, and posted a BB race addendum with Halfling, Gnome, Half Orc, and Half Elf.
These entries prompted my groups rewrite of the races I posted recently elsewhere in the forums for debate.
I'll probably have the Ninja done tomorrow, or by Thursday at the latest. :)
Ed, seriously, if I could buy you a drink I would.
Your conversions have virtually trebled the use of the BB.
I also LOVE that you're adapting monsters! I'd like to know how you make some of the decisions re: powers/abilities, as there are a number of critters I'd like to convert on my own....but cheers to you for the work you've done so far!!!
THANK YOU.
Oh, I already grabbed all of Ed's stuff. No doubt it's fantastic work and we are using some of it already. I just wanted to throw my support in for some official stuff from Paizo. I think they're missing out on a great opportunity here.
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Back in the day TSR had a whole alternate line based of its basic box. Essentially they had parallel games based of the same rule set. The basic box one had rules that went all the way up to becoming a god and a lot of the kiddies liked that sets friendlier rules and format plus a higher potential power level.
The problem is that TSR was using resources to publish books for two lines that were so very similar but different enough that you couldn't just convert one to the other easily. I think Paizo's approach of using the beginner box to get you to level 4 (or is it 6) and then push you over to "real" Pathfinder is the way to go. It prevents dilution of sales, manpower and capital but still give an in to the game.