I would be all over this set. I stopped running BB because there is no adventure support.In fact I just sold all my PF hardcovers and adventures last week because I have no desire for a game as complex as core PF, and stripping core adventures down to BB is more work than coming up with my own material to run. I am not a novice by any means, I started playing in the 70s with the LBBs, I just hate running 3.x full blast. Especially for the kids group (my 13yo son and his peers) who have no desire to learn complicated systems and get analysis paralysis with too much going on (we now mostly play a OD&D/S&W houseruled mashup, but we started with the PFBB nearly 2 years ago! )
I did keep my Beginner Box though because it is a fantastic product I believe in, hopefully this Sandpoint boxed set and other adventure material will surface for the BB! :)
Late to the party as well. Not a subscriber, but have been buying both the 3.5 and PF modules for the past two years for use in OD&D as well as PFBB and C&C games.. Getting ready to run D0 to kick off a PFBB campaign this weekend AAMOF. This change is disheartening to me. I am not a fan of the AP product model, and now it seems we will be getting minipaths spanning several levels too? Self contained smaller modules make my life easy as a DM and father of two with little to no prep time each week, and satisfy the variety of adventure types approach I and my players favor (my campaigns are more like a book of Conan or Fafhrd/Mouser short stories, vs. The Lord of the Rings or other epic type tales).
I am not a member of the PFS, at least an active participant,.the in game PFS does not exist in my Golarion, and frankly, like LGH 10+ years ago, i find these types of scenarios underwhelming.
I hope in the future Paizo will consider offering large and small module formats so that everyone can find a product that meets their needs.
Ordered some stuff from the BF sale and was really surprised to see it arrive coast to coast in 4 days. Awesome.
Although I own a few hardcovers, the BB and some Golarion books, I never have purchased any adventures as I am not a fan of the AP product model. That said, I picked up several of the old 3.5 standalones and I am digging them all. In particular Flight of the Red Raven, and the Pact Stone Pyramid are floating my boat. I will be converting these over to my system of choice to run. And now it seems I am going to have to look into others in the catalog.
I'm not sure I agree with additional BB support is a splitting of the player/fan base as TSR did.
TSR had two very different products in their D&D line, vs. the AD&D line.
D&D was the simpler more free wheeling game with less emphasis on rules, yes, however it differed markedly from AD&D in things other than AC9 vs AC10, and race as a class. Eventually TSR with the mentzer era sets and beyond spun off an entirely divergent game- that had it's own wholly different (from AD&D) skills/proficiency system, it's own mass combat system, a whole different "end game" as regards to epic level play, a different level structure for PCs, a wholly new campaign setting with several boxed set expansions and sourcebooks, as well as treading the ground of new module lines (several each, for each set of the BECMI rules), DM screens, character sheets, weirder stuff of the latter line like the boxed boardgame-ish sets (dragon's den, etc), the D&D cartoon tie-ins, the Solo adventures with and without invisible ink entries, etc etc etc.
You can check out all that stuff at the following link to see what I'm talking about
I don't think any of the Paizo BB proponents are asking for ANYTHING remotely close to the business model (and resulting product line) that that TSR did with (OD&D) line through the 1980s and early 1990s. The BB is almost entirely if not wholly compatible from a rules standpoint with the Core PF rules. The BB is a clarified, and simplified version of the same game rules and mechanics as the core game-eliminating the more unwieldy and difficult to grasp concepts, while providing a cleaner layout that many of us love. It is not a completely different game/product line as the TSR era BECMI sets compared to the AD&D line.
I suspect most of us ( I know I am at the least), are simply asking for (and willing to pay for!) more expansions under this new layout/format, whether it be classes, races, spells, items, feats, monsters, adventures, etc. And all these would be entirely compatible with the core rules.
My 2 lunars.
I had posted in the "kids" thread about my 12 yo son having some initial reservations about the BB after browsing through it. It was a bit overwhelming for him, though he loved the aesthetic look to the product. I have tried to get him to play D&D for about 5 years now with every basic set ever published (including Frank Mentzer's actual play copies I bought from him a few years ago on Dragonsfoot). It just never clicked for him until recently, and the 3.5 game was starting to become un-fun due to AoOs, and him wanting to run all the characters.
We had our first BB session yesterday, and it went over big time with him. The elimination of AoO, the beefing up of 1st level PCs, myself running the other characters (allowing him to concentrate on just his own character), along with a spectacular day of rolling high had him enjoying himself more than any previous session of the 3.5 Basic Set with a couple houserules, barring perhaps the first time we played.
He created his own character, a great axe wielding Fighter, and I ran Ezrin, Merisiel(sp), and Kyra as NPCs through Black Fang's lair.
As I mentioned, due to some spectacular rolls he sped through the dungeon pretty quickly. I also had him make all the d20 rolls for the NPCs attacks/saves, damage etc while I determined their actions. This way he got to roll dice alot.Some highlights:
The 2 Goblin guards were out in one round.
After having Kyra talk about what "humility" is (my son was unfamiliar with the term) the Flame trap in the Altar room nearly killed him and Meri, but they both saved for half damage, I rolled low, and the ruby was taken as they all crawled out to the next room under the sheet of flames.
He threw a bunch of gold in the fountain, and rolled a 10, granting the +2 bonus to AC. Kyra unfortunately rolled poorly, and suffered the reverse. Ezrin and Meri-whatever wouldn't have any part of the fountain.
My son got bold in the we room, guessing it as the lair of a spider, and he strode right in. The Giant spider got off a couple attacks, but missed, and my son''s Fighter took a big chunk out of it, and then Meri critted with her Rapier taking it out.
Ezrin identified the water runes on the Obelisk, but the PCs did not figure out it's magical property, and moved along quickly after writing down the cryptic warning.
The Island encounter was a highlight. My son was not keen on swimming across with or without his armor, and after some good roleplay, and a solid diplomacy check to back it up, he convinced Kyra to remover her armor and swim across, lol. Poor rolls left her sinking halfway to the island, eventually she made her way back to shore, spitting up water, and in need of rest. At this time the reefclaw moved in for a quick kill against a unarmored Kyra on the PCs side of the water. My son won the initiative round and stepped in front of Kyra and critted the creature with his great axe, but in it's last breath lashed out I rolled high, and it left a couple nasty cuts on the Fighter.
After gulping down the potion of healing they found, they moved into the Goblin King's area, and after deciding to to talk instead of risking a fight with 5 foes, the party offered up the dragon toy, the Goblins let them be, and warned them about the dragon (which my son had already deduced there was somewhere in the Dungeon).
Up the cliff went the fighter, who made it up halfway, then fell. Meri then proceeded to make it up with no problem dropping the rope which the fighter and Kyra quickly ascended with no issue. some bad rolls left poor old Ezrin at the bottom, as the 3 skeletons shuffled out of the darkness towards those who made it up. Of course I used this as a cliffhanger, as it was getting late and he needed to get back to his mom's house (we are divorced). He screamed NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and begged me to continue :O)
We had a discussion about the game on the way home, and he related that other than the good rolling, he loved
1)Making his own character instead of playing a pre-made one (I felt he understood the game better by making his own-it certainly showed up in how he played)
2) LOVED the pawns much better than the minis in the 3.5 set(which I found surprising- so yeah... WE NEED MORE PAWNS PAIZO!). He really likes the artwork.
3) He felt that the character sheet despite the initial complexity was easier to get around and find things during play(he was always flipping over the 3.5 sheets back & forth)
4)The beefed up PCs who could dish out and take a bit more punishment, and had more "stuff to do" (more spells, "powers", etc).
5) He liked the Flip mat more than the tiles of 3.5 set, because we could draw on them with the dry erase markers (I wholeheartedly agree!)
6)He enjoyed combat being more sparse, and enjoyed the traps and puzzles and talking his way out of a fight. The 3.5 dungeon was pretty lame in the way of traps/puzzles, and the combats were more frequent, swingy, and dragged on (c.f. #4)
A huge success yesterday for sure with the BB. I already was in love with it, but now I am even more-so because of how much fun my son had yesterday. I have a feeling we will be finished with Black Fang's Dungeon fairly quickly on our next session, and I have to get my rear in gear to get his next adventure written up, and mapped out (which will likely be a Haunted Mansion ala Tegel Manor, without the all the "wahoo")
Awesome job Paizo- I haven't had this much fun with D&D in YEARS.
P.S. obligatory "we need more BB products/content/adventures" statement! :O)
I'm also willing to pay for some extra BB support- whether classes, or a (for the tenth time I've probably mentioned it here or on ENWORLD), a "Expert" expansion set, and BB modules.
I have the PF core rule book as well as a few other PF hardcovers, but I'd rather pay to have the work done professionally, in the the same layout, and with the streamlined rules format of the BB. I'm sure it's hard for some people to fathom, but not all of us want, need, or are hardcore enough to enjoy, a game with a 600+ page rulebook.
I loves me some Beginner Box! :D
I got my 12yo boy one of these. I think Paizo has totally done a bang up job with this set. I have the core PF books, but I personally do not like running any 3.x games and gave up on them not long after 3.5 surfaced. I have a wife and two kids and not enough time in my life to play, let alone prep for a typical 3.X/PF style game.
However I finally have got my son into D&D with the WOTC "black dragon" basic 3.5 set. I have added in some bits from the PF core rules (like cleric's channeling, sneak attack works on undead, AoOs-stupid in retrospect, and a few other things) So I figured the BB would be a next great step for us both.
His evaluation- he LOVES the look of the product, and the art for the items, and monsters. I'd say it reminds him of his pokemon and other video game cheat books that he buys (reminds me of them anyway).He did get overwhelmed flipping through the player's book when he started reading the skill descriptions & combat section. He immediately let me know that he was getting a bit frustrated with the rules when we have been playing, and asked if there was a simpler version of the game. We had a discussion about older D&D games, what he liked/disliked about the rules we have been playing, etc, and at the time I decided Swords & Wizardry with some house rules, or Moldvay Basic would be a better choice. I think the gist of his concerns were combat was bogging down, he got a bit overwhelmed with all the info on his character sheets, modifiers, and AoOs- he likes the combats, but he also wanted to get on with the exploring the unknown (just like his old man).
After 2 days of pouring over my retroclones, working on some houserules, etc . I've realized that the big issues he has are largely my own fault. I never should have bothered with AoO's, The WOTC 3.5 box dungeon sucks (it's all combat really), and I should be playing a bigger part in actually playing the other characters as NPCs (and through their actions-teach him combat tactics as well as proper exploration "etiquette") instead of leaving him to coordinate all 4 as PCs (which he wanted to do from the get-go, I should have refused really).
The Beginner Box does such a good job of teaching the game, that I have decided that I will be running it when we start over again this weekend. I plan to have him create a character (he wants to make a fighter), run him through the solo, then on to Black Fangs dungeon, with me playing the pre-gens as NPCs, and have him just concentrate on what his PC needs to do. I will be sure to update this after our next session to let everyone know how it goes.
At any rate, I'm totally giddy over the BB and while I know there are no plans for a "expert set" detailing a few more levels of play, more items, feats, monsters, etc., using the BB rules and format, nor any plans for BB stand alone modules, I would totally throw Paizo my money left and right if they did so.
Sorry for the disjointed post :(
Thanks for the tip. With my PRIME shipping I'm saving $40 plus on both sets, which is more money for other gifts for my son, but looks like I'll hafta cancel if I want them on time.
Edit- yeah, I'm basically paying twice as much through Paizo direct, I think these will hafta wait for Xmas gifts. Not complaining mind you, just working within the family budget.
Evil Lincoln wrote:
For me , I see it as purely classic Vancian magic- as the words & symbols disappear from your mind they manifest physically as the spell is formed and cast.
James Jacobs wrote:
We don't yet have previews of the actual pages of the product online at this time, but we have previewed a fair amount of the art and bits in our blog, which lives here.
Thank You James, I'll take a look-see back through the Blog and see what I can find.
Of course if anyone has anything to share about the setting, I'm all ears. I've heard it's..err Greyhawk-ish, for lack of a better term (and not surprising if it is)
Hello-been lurking here for about a year or so but now I have a ? :O)
I'm interested in possibly picking up the PF Gaz or the Hardcover as I've seen some interesting tidbits on ENWorld. Are there any PDF previews or such of either item. This site is a bit hard to navigate so perhaps I missed them.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.