Critical Threat

[cybersavant]

OK, if a feat or circumstance "doubles the critical threat", i know that 20 becomes 19-20
19-20 becomes 18-20

after that is it just one more? 17-20, 16-20, etc?

thanks

[blackbloodtroll]

Yes.

[Larry Lichman]

We've always played it as written: Double the threat.

For example, Rapiers crit 18-20, so doubling that threat is 15-20.

Since 18-20 is a 3 in 20 chance, doubling that would be a 6 in 20 chance, thus, 15-20.

Hope this helps!

[Grick]

cybersavant wrote:

OK, if a feat or circumstance "doubles the critical threat", i know that 20 becomes 19-20
19-20 becomes 18-20

after that is it just one more? 17-20, 16-20, etc?

20 becomes 19-20 (Ex: Keen Flail)

19-20 becomes 17-20 (Ex: Keen Longsword)

18-20 becomes 15-20 (Ex: Keen Rapier)

-edit-
It's fully spelled out under the Keen Edge spell.

[Maxximilius]

Also, while you increase the critical threat range, it doesn't mean rolling a 15/16/17/18/19 is an auto-hit. Only by rolling 20 you hit automatically.

[blackbloodtroll]

No, increases in threat range do not work that way. Double, does not mean double in Pathfinder. Odd, but true.

[Jiggy]

Grick wrote:

-edit-

It's fully spelled out under the Keen Edge spell.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

No, increases in threat range do not work that way.

The text gives the same examples Grick used. Perhaps you're thinking of crit multipliers?

[Grick]

Here's some examples from the Bestiary.

The Bandit Lord has a Keen Rapier (15-20)

The Dullahan has a Keen Longsword (17-20)

The Dire Tiger has Improved Critical (bite) (19-20)

All of them follow the same formula.

[Bobson]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

No, increases in threat range do not work that way. Double, does not mean double in Pathfinder. Odd, but true.

Double means double, unless the number has already been doubled. Then it gets tripled (rather than quadrupled). So if you double your threat range, you actually double it. If keen and improved critical stacked (which they explicitly don't), then you'd double the doubled threat range, which would mean tripling it. So with stacking, you'd get:

20 -> 19-20 -> 18-20
19-20 -> 17-20 -> 15-20
18-20 -> 15-20 -> 12-20

Threatening a crit on almost a third of your attacks is just absurd, which is why that combination was expressly not allowed in 3.5 and PF. But if it was, that's how it'd work.

[Kobold Catgirl]

As everybody else has said, double is double. I used to play it the way Troll says, until I took a look at the Bestiary.
Yes, this makes rapiers pretty crazy. There's a reason critical range increases never stack. ;)
/\ I dunno if I agree with that, but it's totally moot. As you pointed out, only double the threat once. Unless it's a house rule.

[gbonehead]

Actually, just like other "doubling" effects, what doubling means is "increase the range by one step."

So, if the original critical threat range was 19-20, that's a range of two numbers, 19 and 20.

"Doubling" that adds a step (i.e. two numbers) which makes it FOUR numbers, i.e. 17, 18, 19 and 20.

"Doubling" it again adds another step of two numbers, making it six numbers, or 15-20.

Somewhere in the rules it talks about that. But all you have to remember is that "doubling" just means "+1 step."