Or even seen the beast? Most times I see anything about this it is assumed the wizard have near unlimited numbers of "Any spell I happen to need right now" ready. It also assumes the wizard has any and every spell they want. And can find or make any and every magic item they happen to want.This has never been a case in any game I have run or really ever played in.
In Theory wizards can pull off almost anything, in practice it never has been that way as far as I can see.
So anyone actually seen such a beast at the table or is it like most other myths and seen mostly on message boards?
Or even seen the beast? Most times I see anything about this it is assumed the wizard have near unlimited numbers of "Any spell I happen to need right now" ready. It also assumes the wizard has any and every spell they want. And can find or make any and every magic item they happen to want.This has never been a case in any game I have run or really ever played in.
In Theory wizards can pull off almost anything, in practice it never has been that way as far as I can see.
So anyone actually seen such a beast at the table or is it like most other myths and seen mostly on message boards?
In my experience, the god-wizard relies heavily on scrolls and wands to have any real practical effects. But it can exist; I've seen it.
The worst I've seen was getting advantage of the XP cost loophole in 3.5 organized play (living Greyhawk): players would scribe a lot of scrolls, that'd prevent them form leveling up and keep playing in lower APL despite their accumulated resources. By the time they reached 12th level; they'd have everything they need and more.
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Many years ago - pre Pathfinder - I had a player who had a God Wizard, who seemed to delight in making encounters boring.
He always seemed to have exactly the right spell for the occasion. Always.
So I had him write his daily spell memorization list down in ink and keep it in front of him where other players could see it...suddenly he seemed to be nowhere near as effective.
At which point, he started casting from a near infinite stockpile of scrolls...
Which I had him inventory. In ink. And then had him hand to the player to his left who tracked when they were used...
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Or even seen the beast? Most times I see anything about this it is assumed the wizard have near unlimited numbers of "Any spell I happen to need right now" ready. It also assumes the wizard has any and every spell they want. And can find or make any and every magic item they happen to want.This has never been a case in any game I have run or really ever played in.
In Theory wizards can pull off almost anything, in practice it never has been that way as far as I can see.
So anyone actually seen such a beast at the table or is it like most other myths and seen mostly on message boards?
Only ever seen in game one time. The GM running the game just let wizard have every spell possible whenever he leveled without paying costs or checks to scribe to his spellbook. Also his spellbook was non-existant, used whatever spell he wanted, and never ran out of spells. I left the game after the third session when it was clear he was the sole focus of the campaign.
I'm the only guy in my group capable of the accounting for it, and I prefer martials, so no.
Ive brought this up before, theory craft vs, practice. Every time i bring it up I'm savagely attacked.
In reality, when the rules are followed. No God wizards.
but the wizard-ites jump all over me on how "unfair' Im being by limiting this and that, or not allowing access to every spell, or how 'cumbersome' the paperwork is to track this or that.
God wizards are a result of three things, a) cheating b) poor book keeping or c) playing too many mmos (where yes it is broken and they are gods).
Every time my parties go up against a wizard as a solo enemy they tool it.
Ive always considered an evil cleric more of a scary solo enemy than a wizard, but maybe that goes back to several bad experiences in the temple of elemental evil.
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I am playing the God Wizard sorta. I took bonded item instead of familiar so at least once a day I would have the exact right spell. I am a conjurer and I find summoned creatures are usually what the doctor ordered.
When we sell stuff I usually blow my share on more spells so I have a lot of spells. I also create items (not the typical god wizard thing) but I find it is very useful to make the things the party needs as once we hit 5th level the magic mart had a lot less level appropriate items. I craft items that meet character's specific need which makes them more effective long term. I don't charge extra but they usually tip me well which lets me buy more spells.
When I don't spend time crafting weapons and such I use it to make more scrolls.
I am very effective and I have trivialized some tough encounters just by casting haste and then summoning. Most of the time that is all I need to do because the extra attacks really help our martially oriented party. I often spend round just rolling for my summoned creature and keeping out of the way.
I usually don't need to use scrolls except for tough fights. I usually end the game day with about half my spells intact as I am conservative in using them and don't want to waste them on monsters that will be dead in a round or two.
That said my DM is still learning how to effectively run monsters. We have been gviing him tips on more effective monster and boss tactics. I explained action economy to him and how our 6 person party needs a few more monsters to fight each battle.
i have seen god like PC but never a wizard, there have been barbarian, cleric and even rogues but all in 3.5 and all had like 6 or more books of info to make.
The worst I've seen was getting advantage of the XP cost loophole in 3.5 organized play (living Greyhawk): players would scribe a lot of scrolls, that'd prevent them form leveling up and keep playing in lower APL despite their accumulated resources. By the time they reached 12th level; they'd have everything they need and more.
Lol. I'm guilty of having done just that.
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Many years ago - pre Pathfinder - I had a player who had a God Wizard, who seemed to delight in making encounters boring.
He always seemed to have exactly the right spell for the occasion. Always.
So I had him write his daily spell memorization list down in ink and keep it in front of him where other players could see it...suddenly he seemed to be nowhere near as effective.
At which point, he started casting from a near infinite stockpile of scrolls...
Which I had him inventory. In ink. And then had him hand to the player to his left who tracked when they were used...
Exactly. Not to mention that pesky action to retrieve the scroll/wand...
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While it is not RAW, and a GM who is struggling with such a character would be within his rights to forbid it, there's a lot of logical sense to having a bandoleer or similar device to allow drawing such items 'as a weapon' to couple with Quick Draw.Exactly. Not to mention that pesky action to retrieve the scroll/wand...Many years ago - pre Pathfinder - I had a player who had a God Wizard, who seemed to delight in making encounters boring.
He always seemed to have exactly the right spell for the occasion. Always.
So I had him write his daily spell memorization list down in ink and keep it in front of him where other players could see it...suddenly he seemed to be nowhere near as effective.
At which point, he started casting from a near infinite stockpile of scrolls...
Which I had him inventory. In ink. And then had him hand to the player to his left who tracked when they were used...
Handy Haversack allows to retrieve it as a move action, which is as fast as you get. Logically you aren't just retrieving it to swing it like a quick drawn weapon, you are retrieving it, unrolling it, and reading it. That should at least be a move action. Meaning you ain't moving so I hope nothing is on top of you.
My wizards now keep all wanda, staves, and other such things on weapon cords. :P
For me it was always, "Alright, I can handle this -- give me fifteen minutes."
It's amazing how quickly the other players realized maybe they could do something when it was either do it or wait for me again.
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You don't think someone can train to deftly pull a scroll out of a bandoleer on their chest, unscroll it in the same motion, and immediately read it just like an Iai strike? (Save for the fact that the reading+casting itself is a Standard Action of course)
That was, after all, the point of noting such a concept as a bandoleer designed explicitly to allow drawing them 'as a weapon.'
I'll also note that there have been magic items along this line that don't require Quick Draw like this would, though whether or not Paizo has published any I can't say.
I don't think you should be able to retrieve a scroll as a free or even swift action, no.
My wizards now keep all wanda, staves, and other such things on weapon cords. :PYou can have more than one weapon cord per hand? That must be really interesting trying to pop up the right item xD
Color code them?
Or even seen the beast? Most times I see anything about this it is assumed the wizard have near unlimited numbers of "Any spell I happen to need right now" ready. It also assumes the wizard has any and every spell they want. And can find or make any and every magic item they happen to want.This has never been a case in any game I have run or really ever played in.
In Theory wizards can pull off almost anything, in practice it never has been that way as far as I can see.
So anyone actually seen such a beast at the table or is it like most other myths and seen mostly on message boards?
All my players have just wanted to blow things up(evocation). I ran one once, but only to level 5. I picked my spots, and helped the party out and it worked well.
As for the "any spell" issue. That is a myth. I have been in situations where I could almost always do something, but having the "best" spell always ready never happened.
I do thing wizards are a powerful class, but the poster often says he has spell X only after the poster list the scenario. The "thread wizards" also have the convenience of not having to go through several encounters which uses up spells.
In short it never works as well in the game as it does on the boards.
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I don't think you should be able to retrieve a scroll as a free or even swift action, no.Why?
Because then it is functionally the same as a memorized or cast spell. It is an intended limitation of the item, in the same way you can only wear two rings despite having 10 fingers.
It exists for the purpose of balance.
Logically, drawing a weapon and using it is very different from pulling out a scroll, unrolling it and then reading it. Mechanically for system purposes, you don't want a scroll to functionally be an extra spell slot with no penalty.
Dot
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I can't speak for everyone Wraithstrike, but I personally have a tendency to leave several slots open (a good rule of thumb is to leave your ability bonus slots open and prepare your class-based slots in the morning.) That way when an important general combat spell gets used up, you just take 15 minutes and refill it, rather than potentially wasting space preparing more than you need in the morning and never using them.
And you may also have a very kind DM who allows you to have an area in a combat zone with enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration, free from distractions such as exposure to inclement weather which prevents the necessary concentration, not to mention any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying.
YMMV
I'm currently playing a thassilonian teleportation conjurer prc'd into diabolist and i'm finding that with an object bond and imp companion with skill focus umd that god wizarding is quite possible and indeed quite easy.
As long as your accounting is good you should have access to something useful no matter what, i often cast a battlefield control (wall or grease normally) then a summon and a buff, maybe a blast if its called for from my staff. My roll in combat is pretty much done, having the perfect spell for the job is unneseccary when you can memorise great spells that work all the time. The schrodinger wizard would have the perfect spell, the god wizard has an adaquate one.
If anything the biggest lessons god wizards need to learn are preperation and utility, the top one is spell conservation. I always leave at least one open slot per level, i memorise my defensive suite for the day, a travel spell depending on what the party are doing (phantom steed, teleportation etc), a few standard controls and buffs (grease, enlarge, walls and haste) and a couple of my highest levels summons. If i cast more than four spells in a fight the gm has written a taxing encounter, after the fight i normally top up any of my must have spells with my open slots while the healer or my imp deals with wounds and the martials and skill users mop up and loot.
If we come to an encounter needing non adventuring skills we normally split the jobs up and roleplay it out but if we really need a spell i can arcane bond it or spend 15 mins filling a spare slot. Getting your hands on the spells shouldn't be a chore but we have a restricted spell list (we're discussing adding grease to it since i've been annoying with it on this char), and we always have a little chat before i go scroll shopping, some dice are rolled and some spells are discussed then i get about 80% of my shopping list since we live in absalom.
Ambushes are the biggest threat to any kind of wizard, with enough time and planning there is no fair encounter a wizard cannot over come, ofc if our skill monkey or brute can do it faster i let them get on with it and save my spells. Just lend them use of your intellect and knowledge skills when your in the planning stages.
On one occassion the gm did pass me a note telling me to hoard my magic for a few sessions due to an assassination threat, everyone got pissed off walking and not having access to magical cheat codes, made the game the gm had written more fun though so worked out well.
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Logically, drawing a weapon and using it is very different from pulling out a scroll, unrolling it and then reading it. Mechanically for system purposes, you don't want a scroll to functionally be an extra spell slot with no penalty.Isn't the scroll's cost a penalty?
Not sufficiently, no. The whole point of only knowing a limited number of spells is having to make the hard choices on utility spells and/or when deciding if you need to use a spell now or save it for later in the day. The cost doesn't nearly offset the benefit, particularly considering you get them at such a significant discount.
I have never been in a game with a wizard that didn't at some point have the party asking the wizard if they knew or had prepared a crucial spell, and more then half the time the wizard is responding with a "no."
Maybe it's the games I play, they tend to have little down time so not a whole lot of crafting goes on.
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Can use translate this argument into wand use?
Sorry about the questions, I'm a GM, and it's just that I like these things to be in my arsenal when this comes up in game. Personally, I've never seen this done with a wizard, but I have with Druids and Clerics.
If the wand is out, the wand is out. If you have a stack of wands that you need to draw (move action from a handy haversack) and then cast, that is the point.
If you happen to have the scroll you need out at the time you need it, you aren't penalized. It's the having to get what you need available to you at the time you need it.
It is looking pretty much as I thought, the "God" wizard is a myth more then fact. And yes I would like to leave theory craft elsewhere.
Well i would planar bind something to carry my wands for me, if i used wands often. Normally a god wizard would give wands to its familiar to umd and would keep scrolls of useful but not always useful spells on hand.
Having a few scrolls of prot evil and other such spells on hand lets you keep your very best spells in memory for more powerful castings. My group also puts spare change from loot into "party kit" for scrolls and wands, as well as resses etc.
Most of my scrolls and my imps wands aren't actually mine, the scrolls are for oh bugger moments which the party chips in for and my imp often spends time flying around invisibily casting cure moderate or enlarge person for other pc's with the wands they paid for or using up remaining charges on left over fireball and magic missile wands from npc spellcasters.
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If we discuss actual experience, I've never seen a wizard player have what they need every time all the time. I've seen this happen with a cleric, who, when their prepared spells went public as someone else mentioned, became much, MUCH less useful; the player was asked to leave a short time afterwards. I've seen the example used when someone played a Druid, and they left their spell slots open. However, that 15 minute waiting period can be killer.
More often than not, if the party is met with a situation that can't be overcome without a wizard's spell, they either:
A. Go back to town, rest, the wizard prepares the one spell.
B. They leave the dungeon and never return
As far as quick scroll and wand drawing? I've always allowed it as a free action with quick draw or as part of a move action; I've never seen that be 'too powerful' and wonder in what situation that it would be 'too powerful'.
It is looking pretty much as I thought, the "God" wizard is a myth more then fact. And yes I would like to leave theory craft elsewhere.
I think if God wizard means having the best spell all the time then it is theory, but if it only means has a spell that can have a substantial affect 95% of the time then it is possible, but the person has to know the game well. In those cases they can be ready with a sorcerer most of the timem also. They just have to depend on scrolls more.
In my experience, the god-wizard relies heavily on scrolls and wands to have any real practical effects. But it can exist; I've seen it.
That is again assuming you have wands or scrolls that you need , when ever you just happen to need them. This is simply never the case in any game I have ever seen.
So I had him write his daily spell memorization list down in ink and keep it in front of him where other players could see it...suddenly he seemed to be nowhere near as effective.At which point, he started casting from a near infinite stockpile of scrolls...
Which I had him inventory. In ink. And then had him hand to the player to his left who tracked when they were used...
This I would guess would be true for most "at table" god wizards.
it was clear he was the sole focus of the campaign.
Yeah not a god wizard as much as a GM fav.
In reality, when the rules are followed. No God wizards.
This is true from what I have seen as well.
It is looking pretty much as I thought, the "God" wizard is a myth more then fact. And yes I would like to leave theory craft elsewhere.I think if God wizard means having the best spell all the time then it is theory, but if it only means has a spell that can have a substantial affect 95% of the time then it is possible, but the person has to know the game well. In those cases they can be ready with a sorcerer most of the timem also. They just have to depend on scrolls more.
Which is what I am asking if anyone has ever really seen this.To hear people talk online this is the most common wizard. At every table, in every game, no need to play anything else ever. Yet I have never seen it and it seems most folks in this thread have never seen it either.
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Here's an interesting item to take into consideration (note the sort of item I was advocating still required the Quickdraw feat.)
Scroll Organizer (5 GP): This long strip of leather has an overlapping series of 15 pockets sewn along one side, each large enough to hold a scroll of a single spell. When slipped into a pocket, only the top of a scroll shows, allowing you to scan the scroll titles. Retrieving a scroll from a scroll organizer is a free action once per round.
Source: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0)
The 'free action once per round' bit could translate into a swift action (which would preclude any swift action spells that round) but it's still damned nice for 5 GP.
Hence why it has never been re-issued since 3.0 came out.
It was broken, someone hopefully slapped that Dev and put it in the "never mention this again" box.
I can't speak for everyone Wraithstrike, but I personally have a tendency to leave several slots open (a good rule of thumb is to leave your ability bonus slots open and prepare your class-based slots in the morning.) That way when an important general combat spell gets used up, you just take 15 minutes and refill it, rather than potentially wasting space preparing more than you need in the morning and never using them.
Which is a good idea, however it does not always work out. sometimes you do not have the time to do that or the safety.
Oh, you mean Schrodinger's Wizard. My bad.
I haven't seen him yet, so I can't say he exists.
No idea what that is, all I know is people keep calling em GOD wizards and I have never , ever seen this God like I can do anything wizard.