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She'll be lucky if her powers are not stripped by her deity for her lustful ways.
Except sexuality and fornication are not necessarily evil, and Paladins are not required to take vows of chastity. I like the Book of Exalted Deeds take on sex and fornication. As long as it is consensual and nobody is taking advantage of anybody, it is not immoral. Plus, fornication happens to be legal in most of the continent she lives on, so it isn't a violation of the law, either. Her sexuality does not violate the Paladin code of conduct, and is perfectly compatible with a Lawful Good lifestyle.
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Shelyn is NG. A paladin of Shelyn would emphasize the lawful aspects of Shelyn.
A paladins LG is different than anyone else's LG. They are exemplars of both lawfulness and goodness.
A little bit of chaos, aka seduction, makes about as much sense as just a little bit of torture and murder. They oppose both chaos AND evil.
I disagree. Seduction, so long as there is no abuse, blackmail, or the like involved, is rarely illegal and not immoral, and therefore is compatible with a Lawful Good alignment.
It's not so much that suduction seems chaotic (at least to me), it's that the personality seems more concerned with personal freedom in society than with society's rules.
Your character acts the same either way, but a paladin would, be more concerned with people fitting law, than law fitting people.
The flexibility of mind that redoing law to fit freedom requires would conflict, for me, with the need to have an inflexible Code of Conduct.In my opinion.
I do agree that it would give a strong role-play option, if the DM agreed with it.
But I wouldn't try to force the GM to agree with my opinion that this sort of paladin was main-stream.
Except she never violates the law, even when she disagrees with it. She believes that it should leave as much room for personal freedom as possible, but she also believes that laws are necessary to have and enforce in order to have a free society. It's not the standard lawful good, but it is lawful good nonetheless, as she upholds the law, even when she disagrees with it, and that's the important thing for a lawful alignment.
It's like people forgot that alingments should be indicators, not uber-strict codes that will yell "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG" unless you stick to a narrow view of WHAT the actual alignment entails, the character's actual PERSONALITY be damned. Also, using a succubus as an example is not very effective if you ask me, when those are spiritual beings that embody the SIN of lust. And like I said, again, lust and seduction are NOT the same despite being closely related...I agree that lust and seduction are different. Lust is fine. Seduction is not Lawful though.
act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth)Perhaps my definition of seduction is different from everyone else. I see it as deceitful manipulation into getting someone to do something for you under false pretenses.
If you define seduction as "trying to get laid", then yea, sure. It's not against the Code.
Do note that Calistria's portfolio includes "Lust" though. And deception. And charm. Shelyn's portfolio includes "Love". Take that as you will.
But enough about that. Everything that would be said has been said about that particular point, and I regret derailing the thread.
Kelsey, check out this: Paladin of Freedom. If this is Golarion, while it technically isn't allowed (JJ has repeated that the only paladins in Golarion are LG ones, and that they oppose chaos as much as evil), it would allow for no arguments about the character concept. Also, seems like it'd be a better fit anyways.
Well, she doesn't use seduction under false pretenses to get things. That would violate her code of conduct. She uses it to flirt and get laid. I think maybe I wasn't clear enough on what she uses seduction for.
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I agree that lust and seduction are different. Lust is fine. Seduction is not Lawful though....
act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth)Perhaps my definition of seduction is different from everyone else. I see it as deceitful manipulation into getting someone to do something for you under false pretenses.
Seduction (or temptation, for that matter) does not require deceit or false pretenses of any sort. You can seduce a person with complete honesty (eg: I honestly do want to have sexual intercourse with you tonight and I don't intend to continue our relationship tomorrow). You could seduce your spouse. It isn't as if a lawful person has to marry the very first person they ever hook up with (or the second, or the third, etc). You could even make a pretty solid argument that a swingers-style club is a lawful (in the terms of D&D alignment) organization providing it has clear rules and procedures and everyone involved is aware and consenting of their involvement. Seduction doesn't even have to be sexual. A musician can seduce your ear with a haunting melody, for example.
The definitions of seduction in the Oxford dictionary is:
1. attract (someone) to a belief or into a course of action that is inadvisable or foolhardy:
2. entice into sexual activity.
3. attract powerfully
Only one of those three definitions is inherently negative, and that definition doesn't even require deceit. You can conceivably seduce a person into an inadvisable course of action without lying to them in the process.
Anyway Kelsey, I don't see any problem with your character. In fact, I love the idea and wish you the best of luck. You said you're playing in a homebrewed setting, so I can't really suggest much in the way of setting material since I don't know your setting. However, power attack and improved critical would both compliment your high strength/high crit multiplier weapon. Unsanctioned Knowledge would also be a good idea, since it lets you pull some non-paladin spells onto your list. Some of the existing bard spells and illusion spells would compliment your concept. Just be careful taking charm spells. Some of them, like Daze Monster and Seducer's Eyes would work well, but be careful with those Charm spells! :-)
I've got her finalized ability scores:
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 16
I have five feats. I'm thinking of making them:
Unsanctioned Knowledge
Improved Critical (Scythe)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
I'm thinking of these magic items:
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 [Deep purple sash] (16000 GP)
+2 Scythe (8000 GP)
+2 Full Plate [Steel, coated in black lacquer] (4000 GP)
That leaves me 5000 GP for various minor items.
Are these selections good?
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Sexy Paladins! Got to Love it!
This is a great opportunity to POUR on the CHARISMA. Few things to consider. 1) Full plate is not sexy. You want to have as little encumber armor as possible. My suggestion:
Oracle of Lore 1/ Paladin 7 Sacred Servant/Hospitaler
16 Str (15 + 1 from 8th level)
7 Dex
15 Con
13 Int (12 + 1 from 4th level)
7 Wis
18 Cha (16 + 2 from Human)
1st level Paladin, +1 Atb, +2 fort and Will, 4 skill points, Favored class bonus - energy resist cold. Important for the scantily clad Paladin.
Traits - Dangerously curious +1 UMD, becomes a class skill, reactionary +2 to initiative
Feats
Power Attack, Improve Iniative
2nd level Oracle of Lore, +2 will, 6 skill points, 0 favored class bonus
Revelation: Side Step Secret - Add Charisma to AC & Reflex saves in place of dex.
Spells known - O lvl, stabilize, detect magic, read magic, plus whatever else you want.
1st level - cure light wounds, bless, protection from evil.
3rd level on - Paladin Sacred Servant, Hospitaler,
Equipment
Mithril Breastplate + 2
Headband of Charisma + 4
+1 keen scythe
Amulet of natural armor +2
Cloak of resistance +2
9th level wand of magic missles - this is your answer to ranged attacks
5th level wand of burning hands - this is your answer for swarms
1st level wand of shield - this is your answer for large opposition.
AC 29 +8 Armor, + 5 Cha( +6, but max is +5),+2 natural, +4 shield spell
AC 31 to 35 (+2 deflection for prot vs evil, or +6 smite deflection bonus)
Attack: +11/+6 (4d4+5 (19-20 x4 crit)
Power Attack: +11/+4 (4d4+11 19-20 x4 crit)(I might be wrong on die damage for the scythe)
Feats
1st level - Power Attack, Improve Iniative
3rd level - Furious Focus
5th level - Unsanctioned Knowledge
7th level - Greater Mercy
9th level - Channel Smite/Quickend Channel
Your sexy and confident, a little clumsy but you pass it off easily as you always look good doing it. Not the wisest of individuals, this leads you into nights of revelry that the rest of your order would probably frown on, but your faith is pure and it sees you through.
Skills to focus on, Use Magic Device, Perception, Diplomacy. The last focus skill could be whatever you want, or you could spread it around.
Use Magic Device is your back up weapon. You only need a 20 to activate and you should have a + 18 at this point, meaning you only fail on a one. Since this is one of the rare skill where you always fail on a one, you really don't have to focus on it any further than this.
Perception will always fall behind, but this is really just to give you a chance to not be caught flat footed. For roleplay purposes your just really attentive to everything around you.
Diplomacy is your way of seduction. Your not bluffing anyone, your just reasonably convincing them that having a good time with you is the best course of action. At a +17, you shouldn't have too much to fear here.
Now as for the focus on Hospitaler, Greater Mercy & Channel Smite:
Just in case you feel like getting a little "Twilight" action, you'll have the confidence in know should you and your special companion disagree in the bedroom, you've got a Smite Evil+ lay on hand + channel smite combo your happily carry around even in your birthday suit that will have a +17 to hit touch attack deal 5d6+14 with no save and an additional 2d6(3d6 if you use your divine servant for your holy symbol) with a will save of DC18 for half.
AC
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I've got her finalized ability scores:
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 16I have five feats. I'm thinking of making them:
Unsanctioned Knowledge
Improved Critical (Scythe)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great CleaveI'm thinking of these magic items:
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 [Deep purple sash] (16000 GP)
+2 Scythe (8000 GP)
+2 Full Plate [Steel, coated in black lacquer] (4000 GP)That leaves me 5000 GP for various minor items.
Are these selections good?
Ummm I am extremely ANTI Cleave...Only because it is very situational and may or may not come up enough to make it worth it. Take Shield of Swings IMO.
Drop that Full Plate to +1 and add Light Fortification...even a 25% chance of crit failure is great.
I've got her finalized ability scores:
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 16
I would change this up, if she is the sexy confident type. Charisma is the stat to pad. I would do something like:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 15
Int 11
Wis 13
Cha 20 (human+4/8)
Mind you I don't know the point by system well enough because I don't use it, but the Charisma, Charisma, Charisma with you characters personality. Otherwise you are just a re-skined milk drinking pally.
I would also pick a couple feats which utilize charisma as well as looking into lunge and whirwind attack progression in lieu of the cleave/great cleave(unless they are prereqs).
SGH
Radiant Charge (expend LoHs to do more damage in a charge. Great for BBEGs, but not that the target doesn't have to be evil.) and Greater Mercy (extra healing with LOH if they don't have a condition your mercy could remove) from Ultimate Magic are both great feats IMO. Greater moreso at lower-mid levels but it is a prereq for ultimate mercy (bring a dead character back to life with LOH uses) which is nice too. I'd take Radiant Charge and Greater Mercy over the Cleave feats.
Though I guess you'd have to rework your feats.. since you cant take Radiant Charge or Greater Mercy until 3rd level at the earliest.
1. Power Attack
H. ?
3. Greater Mercy
5. Radiant Charge
7. Improved Critical
Maybe take Weapon focus or toughness as your human feat? Maybe even Improved Initiative, so you can act earlier more often to get your charge in against the big bad guy!
If you do this maybe swap cha and str so you get another LoH, better saves, and have a better smite evil. Plus ultimate Mercy has a 19 charisma requirement.
So maybe...
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 13 (Increase at 12, you will want the HP! Possibly even drop wis and int by 1 each to increase now and bump int at 12 to get the skill points if you really want em.)
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 19
Full plate is not sexy.Depends on how it's shaped.
Plus, she doesn't wear her armor all the time, just in combat. Her armor is as practical as possible, but when she takes it off (which is any time she isn't expecting a fight), she wears all sorts of sexy outfits.
Oh...
If you are using 3rd party feats for the love of all that is power gaming take impoved reconnoiter.
SGH
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Unsanctioned Knowledge
Improved Critical (Scythe)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great CleaveAre these selections good?
Sure. Personally I don't like Cleave & Great Cleave because they are very situation. They aren't bad, mind you, but I'd suggest that you consider swapping them out for something that works with your paladin abilities like:
Word of Healing
Unsanctioned Detection
Greater Mercy / Ultimate Mercy
Reward of Life
Reward of Grace
Fearless Aura
Extra Lay on Hands
Extra Mercy
Voice of the Sibyl also fits your concept nicely.
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The Book of Erotic Fantasy had a bit to say about lawful good, Paladins in particular, and sexual encounters. Playing mind games with others over sex seems to be a bit off the rails as opposed to being straight up with your partners which LG's are supposed to be. What you're playing at is strongly Chaotic, perhaps Chaotic Good, but not what a Paladin would be.
Seduction, in an of itself, is not evil or unlawful. It is the act of convincing another to engage in amorous activity with you. There is 0 evil or chaotic in that endeavor as long as you are honest and forthright in the activity. Being in any way deceitful or dishonest in the process though would, IMO, be against the stated Paladin code of conduct to be truthful and honorable.
There CAN be social or religious restrictions on seduction or sexual activity, depending on the setting your playing in though, and Paladins are definately impacted by their settings moral, religious and social standards.
A lot on this character will heavily depend on the setting and how it treats in sex, same sex relations, etc. If they are a very open, lberal society where this is not seen as wrong or evil then there are no problems.
If they are not however then there could be issues with maintaining
Paladinhood. It really comes down to setting and the GM.
The Book of Erotic Something Or Other had a bit to say about lawful good, Paladins in particular, and sexual encounters. Playing mind games with others over sex seems to be a bit off the rails as opposed to being straight up with your partners which LG's are supposed to be. What you're playing at is strongly Chaotic, perhaps Chaotic Good, but not what a Paladin would be.Also, what do you guys think of her personality? I love the idea of a Paladin who's confident, spunky, clever, and sexy while still being Lawful Good. I also imagine her as rather seductive when she wants to be. Lawful Good may mean obeying the law, but it's perfectly possible to be edgy and roguish without ever doing something illegal, and that's what she does.
Except she seduces women specifically for sex, which isn't dishonest in any way. She may be flirty and as alluring as possible, but she doesn't lie about what she wants or seek to take advantage of her partners. I feel that this is consistent with the Paladin code of conduct.
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Except she seduces women specifically for sex, which isn't dishonest in any way. She may be flirty and as alluring as possible, but she doesn't lie about what she wants or seek to take advantage of her partners. I feel that this is consistent with the Paladin code of conduct.The Book of Erotic Something Or Other had a bit to say about lawful good, Paladins in particular, and sexual encounters. Playing mind games with others over sex seems to be a bit off the rails as opposed to being straight up with your partners which LG's are supposed to be. What you're playing at is strongly Chaotic, perhaps Chaotic Good, but not what a Paladin would be.Also, what do you guys think of her personality? I love the idea of a Paladin who's confident, spunky, clever, and sexy while still being Lawful Good. I also imagine her as rather seductive when she wants to be. Lawful Good may mean obeying the law, but it's perfectly possible to be edgy and roguish without ever doing something illegal, and that's what she does.
I think the problem is the terminology your using. Seduce and seduction imply a lure with either false pretense or extra intent. Your not going out with these girls with any other reason than mutual companionship, so in essence yours is less of a seduction and more of an invitation. Your code of coduct prevents you from forcing it, but you're more than welcome coming up to the girl and asking. Hence the reason I suggested higher charisma than strength. While I'm not saying lady bodybuilder can not be attractive, but even among the ladies for the ladies a chick with muscles from Brussels does not really do it for them.
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I'm thinking of these magic items:
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 [Deep purple sash] (16000 GP)
+2 Scythe (8000 GP)
+2 Full Plate [Steel, coated in black lacquer] (4000 GP)That leaves me 5000 GP for various minor items.
Are these selections good?
Don't forget to add the cost of the masterwork full plate itself. It should be 5650gp (4000 magic+1500 armor+150 masterwork).
A cloak of resistance is always a good idea, even with your already good paladin saves. You can never have too high a save bonus (or too many hit points).
You may want to check out folding plate from the Advanced Player's Guide. It is a bit pricier, but it is a suit of magical armor that neatly folds up into a necklace or something. Stylish. You could also consider dropping the bonus on your Scythe down to +1 and giving it an ability (ghost touch, flaming, etc). Maybe ask your DM if you could have a non-standard bane (against corrupt officials, rapists, and slavers). Or spend a little more money and just buy a +1 holy scythe.
I'm thinking of these magic items:
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 [Deep purple sash] (16000 GP)
+2 Scythe (8000 GP)
+2 Full Plate [Steel, coated in black lacquer] (4000 GP)That leaves me 5000 GP for various minor items.
Are these selections good?
Don't forget to add the cost of the masterwork full plate itself. It should be 5650gp (4000 magic+1500 armor+150 masterwork).
A cloak of resistance is always a good idea, even with your already good paladin saves. You can never have too high a save bonus (or too many hit points).
You may want to check out folding plate from the Advanced Player's Guide. It is a bit pricier, but it is a suit of magical armor that neatly folds up into a necklace or something. Stylish. You could also consider dropping the bonus on your Scythe down to +1 and giving it an ability (ghost touch, flaming, etc). Maybe ask your DM if you could have a non-standard bane (against corrupt officials, rapists, and slavers). Or spend a little more money and just buy a +1 holy scythe.
I was considering Holy or Ghost Touch for the scythe. I'll look into folding plate. It sounds absolutely perfect for her.
By GM rules the money is for magic only. Mundane things (such as the armor itself and the masterwork quality) are assumed to already be owned by my character, and are not taken out of the magical item allowance. I don't know if that's how it is by RAW, but it's how the GM is handling things.
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I'm not trying to attack your character's personality. It may be me, who just misunderstood it, but I want you to take this test:
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
I'm not trying to attack your character's personality. It may be me, who just misunderstood it, but I want you to take this test:
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
13. She's actually fairly low on the scale.
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I'm thinking of these magic items:
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 [Deep purple sash] (16000 GP)
+2 Scythe (8000 GP)
+2 Full Plate [Steel, coated in black lacquer] (4000 GP)That leaves me 5000 GP for various minor items.
Are these selections good?
Don't forget to add the cost of the masterwork full plate itself. It should be 5650gp (4000 magic+1500 armor+150 masterwork).
A cloak of resistance is always a good idea, even with your already good paladin saves. You can never have too high a save bonus (or too many hit points).
You may want to check out folding plate from the Advanced Player's Guide. It is a bit pricier, but it is a suit of magical armor that neatly folds up into a necklace or something. Stylish. You could also consider dropping the bonus on your Scythe down to +1 and giving it an ability (ghost touch, flaming, etc). Maybe ask your DM if you could have a non-standard bane (against corrupt officials, rapists, and slavers). Or spend a little more money and just buy a +1 holy scythe.
I was considering Holy or Ghost Touch for the scythe. I'll look into folding plate. It sounds absolutely perfect for her.
By GM rules the money is for magic only. Mundane things (such as the armor itself and the masterwork quality) are assumed to already be owned by my character, and are not taken out of the magical item allowance. I don't know if that's how it is by RAW, but it's how the GM is handling things.
Just save up for the Elemental Burst too...having a weapon that is x4 crit will be DEVESTATING if you pop on a couple Bursts to it.
I think folding plate is too expensive for my tastes. I may, however, shell out the cash for dragonhide, specifically a colossal black dragon. The APG mentions that most good characters find it abhorrent to wear the hide of an intelligent creature, but I have an idea about that.
Perhaps this black dragon was Lawful Good (I know good aligned black dragons are EXTREMELY rare, but that doesn't mean one can never, ever exist), and my Paladin decided to seek her out (as a rare good black dragon, she was famous) for advice and assistance with some BBEG when the dragon was reaching the end of her natural lifespan. In this campaign setting, virtually all dragon body parts have magical uses, and some of her organs, if brought to an Alchemist (perhaps an adventuring companion of the Paladin), could make very potent extracts for use against the BBEG. Knowing her life had reached it's end, the dragon told the Paladin to get as much use from her corpse as possible, and the Paladin did so. Having had her armor wrecked fighting the BBEG, she had the best parts of the scale and hide made into armor.
I think in this case a convincing argument could be made that wearing the dragonhide is not abhorrent, as the dragon the armor is made out of said to get as much use from her corpse as possible and the Paladin treats the armor with the utmost care and respect. It also adds a nice bit of backstory to the Paladin and her equipment, and dragonhide just plain looks cool. Add in an elemental burst scythe, preferably acid, and it fits well indeed.
Edgy... yes.
I have two issues with the personality.
The first is the big one. Fornication hurts people. You can't run around building and breaking relationships with various people without deliberately causing a lot of emotional harm. It is an extremely selfish behavior. This isn't something a good character would do.
The second one is less of an issue and more of a concern. It is theoretically possible to be witty, edgy, vulgar, ect. without actually being evil... but it may be hard to avoid tossing insults while being witty. Or difficult to avoid socially destroying some innocent who isn't as trendy but wants to be part of the 'In' crowd. Both seem rather un-paladin like. Not enough to fall on it's own here but definitely an area you are likely to need to be careful about.
Love the character though. Not a paladin with that first point in my opinion. But a cool concept regardless. The purple sash? Is that a reference to the trendy purple sashes worn by young trendy and single nobles in Cormyr? I had a ranger who wore one all the time from that setting.
Edgy... yes.
I have two issues with the personality.
The first is the big one. Fornication hurts people. You can't run around building and breaking relationships with various people without deliberately causing a lot of emotional harm. It is an extremely selfish behavior. This isn't something a good character would do.
The second one is less of an issue and more of a concern. It is theoretically possible to be witty, edgy, vulgar, ect. without actually being evil... but it may be hard to avoid tossing insults while being witty. Or difficult to avoid socially destroying some innocent who isn't as trendy but wants to be part of the 'In' crowd. Both seem rather un-paladin like. Not enough to fall on it's own here but definitely an area you are likely to need to be careful about.
Love the character though. Not a paladin with that first point in my opinion. But a cool concept regardless. The purple sash? Is that a reference to the trendy purple sashes worn by young trendy and single nobles in Cormyr? I had a ranger who wore one all the time from that setting.
I disagree with the first point. It would only be harmful if she deceived people into thinking she wanted something other than a one night stand, and she doesn't do that. She never lies about what she wants.
As for the second point, she knows when to keep her mouth in check, and she mostly aims her mouth at people who irritate her (Hypocrites, corrupt officials [if she can get away with it], bullies, liars, people who don't think their actions through), not at people with social awkwardness. She doesn't lord herself over people. She knows she's awesome and sexy, and she doesn't feel the need to bully or socially destroy others to prove it.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I have to agree with LazarX that this concept is more Chaotic Good than Lawful Good.
Being lawful is more than just obeying the law. It means valuing order over chaos. Obeying laws and then trying to overthrow those she doesn't agree with by using legal means is not lawful behavior - it is chaotic. You are trying to overthrow the existing order in favor of your own whims/desires/beliefs regardless of the means you use - it's not the method, it's the act. Paladins will strive to overthrow existing laws if they are unfair to the populace at large, or oppressive in any way, but your explanation indicates that she will do so for any laws she disagrees with. This is Chaotic behavior.
On the other side of Lawful Good, while the personality you describe may fit the definition of good, it falls a bit short of a Paladin's definition of Good. You may not be lying on the face of things by engaging in consensual interplay with other women, but because of your stature and high Charisma, it can be interpreted that you are taking advantage of your status and personality when you do so. Women may be sleeping with you because they simply can't say "no", which can lead to confusion and mental distress on the part of your partner/victim after the act is consummated - even if they willingly participated. This is not a Paladin-like behavior.
Throw in your explanation for the dragon-hide armor (really? A Paladin is going to skin her good friend and wear it as clothing? It would be more in line with a Paladin if the dragon were evil and she wears the armor as a warning to other evil-doers).
It's a good concept, and very well-thought out, but it is in no way a Paladin. I would go Fighter or Ranger, but not Paladin.
My 2 cents - take it for what it's worth.
I have to agree with LazarX that this concept is more Chaotic Good than Lawful Good.
Being lawful is more than just obeying the law. It means valuing order over chaos. Obeying laws and then trying to overthrow those she doesn't agree with by using legal means is not lawful behavior - it is chaotic. You are trying to overthrow the existing order in favor of your own whims/desires/beliefs regardless of the means you use - it's not the method, it's the act. Paladins will strive to overthrow existing laws if they are unfair to the populace at large, or oppressive in any way, but your explanation indicates that she will do so for any laws she disagrees with. This is Chaotic behavior.
I disagree. Lawful means following and upholding the law, and she does so. Trying to change the law in a legal manner to fit what she feels is right does not violate that, especially because she lives in a society similar to the US where that is considered perfectly acceptable behavior. To put it simply, as long as she upholds and obeys the law even when she disagrees with it, and she does, trying to change it by legal methods is not a violation of the code of conduct or unlawful behavior.
On the other side of Lawful Good, while the personality you describe may fit the definition of good, it falls a bit short of a Paladin's definition of Good. You may not be lying on the face of things by engaging in consensual interplay with other women, but because of your stature and high Charisma, it can be interpreted that you are taking advantage of your status and personality when you do so. Women may be sleeping with you because they simply can't say "no", which can lead to confusion and mental distress on the part of your partner/victim after the act is consummated - even if they willingly participated. This is not a Paladin-like behavior.
That's a more complicated issue. Use of the Sense Motive skill and not pushing the issue when a girl seems less than enthusiastic should work, though.
Throw in your explanation for the dragon-hide armor (really? A Paladin is going to skin her good friend and wear it as clothing? It would be more in line with a Paladin if the dragon were evil and she wears the armor as a warning to other evil-doers).
The dragon said to use everything she could from her corpse (the extracts those organs provided really saved the day), and she needed new armor. Dragonhide being superior to steel, I could see her going through with it and treating the armor with the utmost respect and care as the remains of a paragon of virtue, and I could see the dragon in the afterlife happy that her remains served to assist the Paladin in her crusade against evil by keeping her alive in battle.
The first is the big one. Fornication hurts people. You can't run around building and breaking relationships with various people without deliberately causing a lot of emotional harm. It is an extremely selfish behavior. This isn't something a good character would do.
I disagree with the first point. It would only be harmful if she deceived people into thinking she wanted something other than a one night stand, and she doesn't do that. She never lies about what she wants.
As for the second point, she knows when to keep her mouth in check, and she mostly aims her mouth at people who irritate her (Hypocrites, corrupt officials [if she can get away with it], bullies, liars, people who don't think their actions through), not at people with social awkwardness. She doesn't lord herself over people. She knows she's awesome and sexy, and she doesn't feel the need to bully or socially destroy others to prove it.
Ok you convinced me on the second point but not the first one.
Whether you are up front or not many people expect a certain bond when engaged intimately. To later find out they don't have one hurts. Larry has a good point too. You are going to be a social magnet. Many girls will not have the option of saying no.
Is it absolutely vital to you to leave the fornication in the character? It could be removed without damaging the concept or personality. You could even leave in the flirty side... she just wouldn't head home with anyone afterward.
The first is the big one. Fornication hurts people. You can't run around building and breaking relationships with various people without deliberately causing a lot of emotional harm. It is an extremely selfish behavior. This isn't something a good character would do.
I disagree with the first point. It would only be harmful if she deceived people into thinking she wanted something other than a one night stand, and she doesn't do that. She never lies about what she wants.
As for the second point, she knows when to keep her mouth in check, and she mostly aims her mouth at people who irritate her (Hypocrites, corrupt officials [if she can get away with it], bullies, liars, people who don't think their actions through), not at people with social awkwardness. She doesn't lord herself over people. She knows she's awesome and sexy, and she doesn't feel the need to bully or socially destroy others to prove it.
Ok you convinced me on the second point but not the first one.
Whether you are up front or not many people expect a certain bond when engaged intimately. To later find out they don't have one hurts. Larry has a good point too. You are going to be a social magnet. Many girls will not have the option of saying no.
Is it absolutely vital to you to leave the fornication in the character? It could be removed without damaging the concept or personality. You could even leave in the flirty side... she just wouldn't head home with anyone afterward.
If that's true, why is the fighter iconic Neutral Good?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I have to agree with LazarX that this concept is more Chaotic Good than Lawful Good.
I'm going to venture in here and disagree with a couple of your specific points (though I agree with other parts):
Obeying laws and then trying to overthrow those she doesn't agree with by using legal means is not lawful behavior - it is chaotic.
I disagree here. A person of any alignment can take issue with a given law/rule/custom/tradition. It's just that the different alignments will react to differently to that situation. A chaotic person will simply not follow the rule they don't like - it's extremely unlikely they'll try to take legal measures to get it changed. They'll disobey, they'll encourage others to do the same (if they're feeling benevolent), or if it's really serious they'll threaten/kill the person making/enforcing the law they don't like. But they won't ever use "legal means" to change a law.
It's the lawful people who respond to a bad law by trying to get it changed. They'll generally obey in the meantime (unless there's something really serious going on, like something blatantly Evil if you're LG), and start going through proper channels to get things amended. They'll write letters to legislators, maybe lobby some influential VIPs, give public speeches to sway the sentiment of the constituency... you get the idea.
A lawful person can oppose a law. They'll just do it in an orderly fashion. And to do so is almost NEVER chaotic.
Throw in your explanation for the dragon-hide armor (really? A Paladin is going to skin her good friend and wear it as clothing? It would be more in line with a Paladin if the dragon were evil and she wears the armor as a warning to other evil-doers).
I've seen enough books/movies/videogames where a dying character tells their friend "take my X, use it to defeat him!" to see this as acceptable. It becomes something of an heirloom to the surviving warrior, used in honor of their fallen comrade's last gift and sacrifice. The survivor would typically feel conflicted at the time of the bequest, but would know that to refuse would dishonor the memory of He Who Kept Fighting Even After Death.
If that's true, why is the fighter iconic Neutral Good?
Probably because the writer of that iconic doesn't agree with me.
Besides even if a neutral good character could walk a fine line and get away with it. A Paladin has to be an exemplar of both Law and Good.
I think the black dragon hide armor is a bit over the top. Unless there is precedence in official books I wouldn't let this slide as a GM as you are already fudging the paladin(somethings are just plan evil, period). If you are going to do it then you are going to do it, I hope the cost of the armor reflects the rarity of it, it should be outrageously expensive something like 5 times the normal value.
If that's true, why is the fighter iconic Neutral Good?Probably because the writer of that iconic doesn't agree with me.
Besides even if a neutral good character could walk a fine line and get away with it. A Paladin has to be an exemplar of both Law and Good.
I just don't find myself agreeing with you on this.
Whether you are up front or not many people expect a certain bond when engaged intimately. To later find out they don't have one hurts. Larry has a good point too. You are going to be a social magnet. Many girls will not have the option of saying no.Is it absolutely vital to you to leave the fornication in the character? It could be removed without damaging the concept or personality. You could even leave in the flirty side... she just wouldn't head home with anyone afterward.
I have to agree about the fornication. Eventually someone, or a bunch of someones are going to get hurt. You may not lie to people, but they will lie to themselves. They will try to change you, claim you, tame you, and get hurt when it doesn't work. Jealousy, possessiveness (that's a lot of s's), obsession, desire, none of these things lead to clear thinking. Just because you told the girl you're taking home that this is a one time thing, doesn't mean she's not going to be hurt or jealous when she sees you taking someone else home the next night. You don't have any control over what they feel, no matter what you say. This is something I've learned.
Now, this doesn't mean you can't be that way and still be a paladin, especially if you're yound. Paladin's aren't perfect, as much as they may try to be. So the whole sleeping around hurts people is something that you're Paladin may learn in the game as events unfold. Or maybe she's skilled enough to prevent it from happening. It could be what leads to crisis' of faith and moments of temptations. Flawed paladins are the most fun.
Also the reason she's doing it will matter as well, is she doing it just to get her rocks off, selfish. Is her doing it tied to her religion (the whole Shelyn creating beauty thing), then it may work better.
The Dragon idea sounds like a great one. I've often found that abberrations like a Good black dragon work best in backstory anyway.
I've seen enough books/movies/videogames where a dying character tells their friend "take my X, use it to defeat him!" to see this as acceptable. It becomes something of an heirloom to the surviving warrior, used in honor of their fallen...
Yeah the Dragon Armor is just literary license, not an alignment issue.
I think the black dragon hide armor is a bit over the top. Unless there is precedence in official books I wouldn't let this slide as a GM as you are already fudging the paladin(somethings are just plan evil, period). If you are going to do it then you are going to do it, I hope the cost of the armor reflects the rarity of it, it should be outrageously expensive something like 5 times the normal value.
By RAW, dragonhide is twice the price of a masterwork suit of armor made from steel, so non-magical dragonhide full plate is 3200 GP as the rules say it.
As for the good aligned black dragon, the Bestiary says chromatic dragons are almost universally evil. The use of the word almost implies that a good aligned black dragon could exist, but would be extremely rare, which is what I wrote into the armor's backstory: she sought out the black dragon because she was famous, and she was famous for being one of the highly rare good aligned chromatic dragons.
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So in your OP you state pretty plainly that the campaign was Ebberon inspired. One of the most unique facets about Ebberon, aside from Magi-Tech/ Final Fanstasy 6 inspired thematics and technology is that it is very plainly stated throughout the main book and several other that dragons could be of ANY alignment. That said, your Lawful Good aligned Black dragon just went from radically rare to just about as common as any other alignment. I very specifically recall an Ebberon adventure where it was a Young Copper dragon that decided that the party was good muchies, where as later the White dragon saved our cans against frost giants.
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Edgy... yes.
I have two issues with the personality.
The first is the big one. Fornication hurts people.
Who took the time machine to 1952?
Seriously, dishonesty hurts people. Casual sex between two people who know what it is isn't hurtful. Unless you have some serious social disorder.
So in your OP you state pretty plainly that the campaign was Ebberon inspired. One of the most unique facets about Ebberon, aside from Magi-Tech/ Final Fanstasy 6 inspired thematics and technology is that it is very plainly stated throughout the main book and several other that dragons could be of ANY alignment. That said, your Lawful Good aligned Black dragon just went from radically rare to just about as common as any other alignment. I very specifically recall an Ebberon adventure where it was a Young Copper dragon that decided that the party was good muchies, where as later the White dragon saved our cans against frost giants.
We aren't using everything from Eberron, and black dragons are mostly evil. I like Eberron's any alignment dragons, but they aren't in this campaign setting.
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Hedonism is always seen in DnD as chaotic but being gay and having a sex life doesn't have to be that way. This characters flavor sounds more chaotic than lawful which is only a factor because of a paladin opposing chaos as much as evil. What i personally would do is ask to play a paladin of freedom, a CG varient
Hedonism is always seen in DnD as chaotic but being gay and having a sex life doesn't have to be that way. This characters flavor sounds more chaotic than lawful which is only a factor because of a paladin opposing chaos as much as evil. What i personally would do is ask to play a paladin of freedom, a CG varient
The issue is that she never actually disobeys the law, and tries to uphold it. As edgy and roguish as she is, if she's obeying and upholding the law she's lawful, even if she tries to change certain laws through legal methods.
Kelsey,
Not everyone is going to agree with you on everything, if your GM allows it fantastic. So what is the final build going to be like? What are you going to do?? Have you tweeked the stat numbers to better suit your character's personality/background or changed feats at all?
SGH
"Except she seduces women specifically for sex..."
...oh, boy. I admit, my first response here is: Are you a guy posting this? I don't care what your profile says--people lie on those on the internet. Because sure, it's the internet. :)
Yet unless it is done well? Then that's just discomfort at the gaming table, and every Mary Sue waiting to happen. That's being That Sleezy Gamer Guy.
So if you're going to do it, treat it respectfully.
Otherwise, I don't see an issue with a paladin being slightly off-kilter.
However, don't be the Sleezy Guy who describes his PC in a g-string at the table while trying to have sex with any and every female NPC. It's not to say a guy can't play a female character--I'm saying, to beat a dead horse, do it respectfully. It makes a number of women, and men, uncomfortable.
On the other, I could see a woman playing this concept for attention at the table as well. Perhaps you are, and you aren't doing that. Perhaps you're intending to treat it respectfully when out-of-character, and you aren't doing this for attention.
In that case, good for you. :)