Alright, so as we all know, there are the basic core deities. Cayden Cailean, Calistria, Torag, and the like. I'm even certain most of us know about the other deific figures and powers in Golarion. This is a thread to discuss (and perhaps even speculate, why not?) those lesser deities, or other 'powers', that you would personally like to see more of.
I personally would love to see more of Besmara. This goddess, with her trusty ship Seawraith, not only sails the Maelstrom of all things... But she regularly makes raiding trips into Heaven, Axis, Elysium, and even Hell. Now, I dunno about you guys, but anybody brave enough to piss Asmodeus off by sailing right into his back yard, just to take his little pink ceramic flamingos, is definitely worth more attention... Ok, so I'm not saying Asmodeus actually HAS pink flamingos in his yard... But I'm fairly certain Besmara, from the sounds of it, would take them too, just because she could. I'd also LOVE to see how her and Cailien get along. Gotta love Chaotic Neutral.
I'd also like to see more of Sivanah... No particular reason, I just happen to like her portfolio and her fluff.
So, what lesser deities and other powers would ya'll wanna know more about and see more info on?
I want to know more about Apsu and related deities. And Zon-Kuthon and Shelyn's wolf father (and mother).
Groetus, too.
And (still not looked to Book of the Damned 3, so I don't know how many info there are about it, but...) the Oinodaemon.
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Milani! She might be the only golarion deity I actually like.
Other than that, something that would be cool is a deity of white necromancy (using undead to fight undead), especially if said deity is good. Pharasma from the core book, not the setting.
A few new heroes make it through the star stone, and offer somethings that the existing deities don't.
Maybe a new deity of Humans.
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My favorites would be Sivanah and Brigh and the interpretation of Desna as being a prehuman god, more related to Shub-Niggurath than Shelyn.
Some of the gods that could be my favorites, like Pharasma and Nethys, seem to be more defined by what they *don't* tolerate than by what they do. (With Nethys refusing to grant Imbue with Spell Ability, on his Magic Domain list, and Pharasma refusing to grant Animate Dead, Create Undead or Greater Create Undead on her Death Domain list. Having dieties that are vehemently opposed to abilities that are so representative of their spheres of influence that they appear on their Domain lists, feels like a misstep.)
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Some of the gods that could be my favorites, like Pharasma and Nethys, seem to be more defined by what they *don't* tolerate than by what they do. (With Nethys refusing to grant Imbue with Spell Ability, on his Magic Domain list, and Pharasma refusing to grant Animate Dead, Create Undead or Greater Create Undead on her Death Domain list. Having dieties that are vehemently opposed to abilities that are so representative of their spheres of influence that they appear on their Domain lists, feels like a misstep.)
I'll grant you the Nethys one is just odd, but I like the fact the god of death does not like undead and will not promote undeath. I grew tired of death gods having to be evil and having undead all the time.
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I'll grant you the Nethys one is just odd, but I like the fact the god of death does not like undead and will not promote undeath. I grew tired of death gods having to be evil and having undead all the time.
After Greyhawk, with a non-evil death goddess, and the Realms, with Myrkul being bumped off in favor of an undead-hating non-evil death god, I kinda feel the other way. Yet another non-evil death god who isn't fond of undead didn't feel terribly new to me.
I'm more interested in Pharasma for her fate aspect than her life and death aspects, as well as her interactions with Groetus (if any). Also, how old is she? Did she create the Boneyard or claim it or what? And so on. Despite having read Gods and Magic and her writeup in Faiths of Balance, I admit to being curious still.
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I'll grant you the Nethys one is just odd, but I like the fact the god of death does not like undead and will not promote undeath. I grew tired of death gods having to be evil and having undead all the time.After Greyhawk, with a non-evil death goddess, and the Realms, with Myrkul being bumped off in favor of an undead-hating non-evil death god, I kinda feel the other way. Yet another non-evil death god who isn't fond of undead didn't feel terribly new to me.
She seems very inspired by Dc comics death to me in many ways. But I can understand where you are coming from, I just like non-evil primary death gods.
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She seems very inspired by Dc comics death to me in many ways. But I can understand where you are coming from, I just like non-evil primary death gods.
I'd rather zip right past 'non-evil' and have a *good* death god.
Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth.
I'd rather zip right past 'non-evil' and have a *good* death god.Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth.
I am not sure about a good death god, but I agree with the others.
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A CG god of Death (and Madness. . .) would be amazing. I know it's probably a joke, but <Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth> sounds pretty sweet to me.
I am not getting the good god of death. I feel you could most likely make one, but I am getting nothing for it off the top of my head. And if the flavor and history fit, why not. It's just not something I would normally do myself. I must now however think on this and make one, just because.
On the other hand this <nearly enough good gods with death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth>
I totally agree with. I have done so in some game myself
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You don't get the concept of/desire for a good deity of death, or you don't think it is a good idea?
Personally, I just want to be able to play a White Necromancer Cleric (and much less so a Wizard/Witch), that sort of bends the alignment rules for spells. I can easily see a Good aligned Death deity, teaching that death is not the end, not to be fear, is to be respected and understood as the next step on ones journey towards something better.
Or using Undead (. . . I mean Deathless, um um um) to fight undead, and those that would bypass the natural order, or use Undead for evil purposses.
I didn't get a concept for a good death God. But now I have this idea for a Goddess of Mercy, compassion, personal sacrifice and merciful death in my head.
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A CG god of Death (and Madness. . .) would be amazing. I know it's probably a joke, but <Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth> sounds pretty sweet to me.
Definitely not a joke. I love the roads not taken. A desert culture could see the Sun as harsh, cruel and merciless, a ruthless judge, who scours away all that he regards as weak, while the goddess of the soothing protective night shelters her people from his burning gaze, and keeps them safe from the winged predators that own the daytime sky, drifting on thermals and seeking those struck down by the sun's fury. And so we end up with a LE destructive sun god (with the white feathered Egyptian vulture as his holy animal!) and a CG protective goddess of the night.
Similarly, snakes in cultures not wrapped up in the Eden/serpent thing have been associated with ancient wisdom (even as psychopomps) and fertility and healing, making a god with Good, Healing, Knowledge, Repose (or Death) and Scalykind a possibility.
Dionysus would be an interesting sort of non-evil god of Madness.
A god or goddess of pure art and inspiration, creativity and dreams, a goddess of *passion,* would be a neat patron of domains like Artifice, Charm, Chaos, Knowledge and Madness. (Scoffing at the usual association of Artifice with Law, in addition to being a non-evil patron of Madness.)
Anubis might make a good death god. Guardian of graves, escort to the Hall of Judgment, that sort of thing.
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She seems very inspired by Dc comics death to me in many ways. But I can understand where you are coming from, I just like non-evil primary death gods.I'd rather zip right past 'non-evil' and have a *good* death god.
Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth.
Pluswon to this.
Benign deities and empyreals representing death, darkness, and scaly creatures would be great to have. Same for the evil deities and archfiends representing those other domains.
An evil god of Glory and Community could result in some truly terrifying places whereever that faith takes hold, whether it results in The Wicker Man(original film only folks) situations or something on the scale of Hermea.
And how nervous would a Liberation-focused demon lord make people in a setting that has Rovagug in it?
She seems very inspired by Dc comics death to me in many ways. But I can understand where you are coming from, I just like non-evil primary death gods.I'd rather zip right past 'non-evil' and have a *good* death god.
Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth.
+1 on this!!
Thinking about this, I think it's a shame that the Death god (who is also a god of Darkness) I made for one of my homebrew races is Lawful Neutral, and his generally a-hole disposition would make it hard for him to be shifted to Lawful Good. Also, why do I feel like the Community domain SORT OF fits Lamashtu in a sick, twisted way? Also, I really, REALLY want to see a deity with "Vermin"/"Spiders" or "Blood" in their portfolio that is actually Good, or at least Neutral.
Also, Mikaze. I am so going to make a Demon Lord or Daemon (Devils don't seem crazy enough to fit the bill) that gets that idea. Then again, they'd be considered insane even by others of their kind. Lamashtu wants the world for her children, and having Rovagug freed would pretty much ruin that plot. And now I am left to wonder about two things: How will I use Groetus in my own campaigns (he's pretty interesting), and will I ever be able to manage finishing my deity for another homebrew race I created? (And as I keep editing this post, I realized that these posts become very erratic when I've overdosed on caffeine)
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I ... actually would like to see more greater spirits and philosophies. Don't get me wrong, the demigods all of you have mentioned are great and I would love seeing more of them, but I like philosophies. I enjoy seeing ways that people can compress the worship of multiple gods or forces into a coherent whole and I find it especially useful to have some non-theistic sources of power out there.
Razmir and Rahadoum are blessings to the setting. Now tell me more about those white-gloved Prophets of Kalistrade ...
I think the only problem is that the philosophies don't grant any special powers like they could in some other settings. Also, the Whispering Way is kinda cliche as a philosophy, but Golarion still makes it sort of awesome.
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Hurm. Too true. But I can always hope there are more philosophies out there.
I'm tempted to go write up an Andorran-native philosophy right now. Make a whole organization devoted to overthrowing governments around the world, drawing power directly from liberty while occasionally patronizing Cayden, Milani, Desna and a few others. Spread the revolution and break the Lie that holds you!
I also want Tien-Xia to have native philosophies. But that's me.
Oh, snap!! Your Andoran liberty idea reminded me of the Order of the Godclaw. It's one of my favourite Hellknight organizations, partly because one of the higher-ranked members is actually a Paladin and not a Lawful Evil jerk.
I'd really like to learn more about Ketephys...
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Milani! She might be the only golarion deity I actually like.
Other than that, something that would be cool is a deity of white necromancy (using undead to fight undead), especially if said deity is good. Pharasma from the core book, not the setting.
A few new heroes make it through the star stone, and offer somethings that the existing deities don't.
Maybe a new deity of Humans.
More Milani as well.
Interestingly, I wouldn't mind some of the other minor dieties if the setting is ever moved 'forward' in time move up and become more powerful. A couple of successful revolts, for example and you could have her as the 'patron' of, say Cheliax and suddenly she's a major goddess.
Another aside, I once thought it would be cool to make a shirt w the DC comics death, only replacing the Ankh with Pharasma's holy symbol.
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Milani. Besmara. Groetus. Shamira.
(oops... I just realized that all powers I stated are on the chaotic side of the spectrum...)
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A CG god of Death (and Madness. . .) would be amazing. I know it's probably a joke, but <Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth> sounds pretty sweet to me.
I subverted it for a MM PBP campaign on another board, in the gods of the Orcish religion. I made the orcs hate the sun more than anything, and they have a sun god as their main antagonist--an insecure, stupid, yet all powerful sun god who desperately needs to organize everything because it's the only way he makes sense of the world.
Although the main Orcish hero-gods are evil, the main Orcish villain-gods are also evil.
An evil sun god? Cheers for another break from the norm!! Anyway, I would love to see a deity with the Void domain that isn't evil. I think Desna would fit the bill, but her domain slots are already more-or-less filled out, right?
Which gods fit well as gods revered by witches? Maybe broken out by alignment? Which gods seem particularly inappropriate?
Which power sources for witches seem most fitting, and are they typically gods, spirits, other outsiders, etc?
How different can the two be? I mean, is it possible for a Witch to follow Sheyln, but knowingly or unknowingly her power source could be a demon, or even Asmodeous?
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Which gods fit well as gods revered by witches? Maybe broken out by alignment? Which gods seem particularly inappropriate?
Gyronna and Mestama seem the most 100% perfectly appropriate.
But almost any god or goddess, or demon lord or empyreal or whatever, could be rationalized as a source of power (or, if not the god themself, one of their servitors), depending on the 'patron.'
Sivanah would make a fine patron for a Shadow witch, Calistria one with the Deception or Trickery patrons, Urgathoa for Plague, Gozreh for Water, Desna for Wisdom, etc.
Most patrons wouldn't necessarily be gods at all, as the patron being all mysterious and unconfirmed is part of the Witch 'package,' so a Witch who worships Shelyn, but whose patron is something like a demon lord or Asmodeus would be quite possible.
Witch patrons are even *less* tied to dieties than Oracle mysteries, so, really, there's no need for any god or demon lord or whatever to be involved. There might not even be a conscious entity behind the title of patron, with the source of power being more like an archetypal concept, or a vestige or something.
But, if gods are part of the patron option, then any god or demon lord or archdevil, etc. with the Magic domain would likely be a perfect choice. Abraxas, for instance, or Asmodeus, could serve as a patron for Witches, with those lacking a gift for wizardry (or the opportunity to get into an apprenticeship or academy) being chatted up by a black cat or hissing viper in the middle of the night and offered a different path to arcane power, without all the books and the expensive tutors and being friends with the right people...
Even gods not associated with magic might sponsor a witch or two. Rovagug seems a good fit for an Elements patron, for example, and a half-orc witch who gets his dark inspiration into blasting evocation spells from a chittering centipede would be appropriately thematic.
I'd prefer to keep it mysterious, although any particular witch might be dead sure where she gets her power from (without necessarily being correct about that...). One witch might be totally sure that Desna is her 'Star' patron, while another is equally sure that Baba Yaga is her 'Winter' patron, and they might both be wrong.
I think Zon-Kuthon fits as a Shadow Witch patron as well, and I'd either go for a Cleric/Witch/Mystic Theurge or a Cleric/Pain Taster of Zon-Kuthon with my own character. Also, Winter Witches are now an archetype as well, and I would love the idea of playing an illegitimate grand-daughter of Baba Yaga who ended up out of Irrisen's political circle and ending up adventuring.
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She seems very inspired by Dc comics death to me in many ways. But I can understand where you are coming from, I just like non-evil primary death gods.I'd rather zip right past 'non-evil' and have a *good* death god.
Not nearly enough good gods with Death, Darkness, Madness, Scalykind, etc. and not nearly enough evil gods with Community, Glory, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Sun, Travel and so forth.
+1 on this!!
Thinking about this, I think it's a shame that the Death god (who is also a god of Darkness) I made for one of my homebrew races is Lawful Neutral, and his generally a-hole disposition would make it hard for him to be shifted to Lawful Good. Also, why do I feel like the Community domain SORT OF fits Lamashtu in a sick, twisted way? Also, I really, REALLY want to see a deity with "Vermin"/"Spiders" or "Blood" in their portfolio that is actually Good, or at least Neutral.
(snip)
Like her?
Grandmother Spider's probably Good, and definitely includes spiders in her portfolio, along with stars and creation and artifice in general.
Holy crap, that is AWESOME!!
The Eldest and Brigh
The Eldest. Also the Empyreal Lords. 'Cause we've got a metric ton about bad deities (the hells, the abyss, abaddon, etc). I'd like to see a few more good ones in the spotlight.
Also, I believe a certain iconic witch has it heavily implied that Desna is her patron...
It seems quite clear that Desna will gladly stab evil in the face whenever she wants/gets a chance if she really is that iconic Witch's patron. That's one reason to like her despite all the sources being so conflicting about what kind of rituals her clerics have...
Also, I really need to work on that Finnish pantheon (cheers for Mielikki and other such deities!!) as well as the pantheon from one of my original settings. With the latter idea, I tried to go for an approach that Golarion seems to have taken when it comes to the attitudes of the deities (no direct interference on mortal affairs), though their portfolios are slightly more flexible (the goddess of blood has a lot of stuff on her table, given how many things are related to the stuff) and clerics have slightly more alignment flexibility like in Eberron (though generally they will end up in trouble for heresy if they get caught).
The Eldest. Also the Empyreal Lords. 'Cause we've got a metric ton about bad deities (the hells, the abyss, abaddon, etc). I'd like to see a few more good ones in the spotlight.
Also, I believe a certain iconic witch has it heavily implied that Desna is her patron...
I entirely agree.
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I once ran a campaign using the Golarion deities and i added a little twist to all of the 'big 20'. Each one had a 'good side' and an 'evil side'. I didn't go too much into why they did, i just said they did. so Sarenrae was the goddess of healing, light, honesty, good ect. as preached by the good version of her church. But her cult/evil church worshipped her as the goddess of inquisitions, heat, scorched lands, thirst, ect. Even the normally evil gods had a good side. Asmodeus was of course, the evil god of slavery, tyranny, pride, and hell; but his good, and therefore socially-accepted side was the god of law, contracts, justice, courts, ect.
I think I gave each of their versions their own domains, so that in the end, all the domains were available to both good & evil clerics.
I once ran a campaign using the Golarion deities and i added a little twist to all of the 'big 20'. Each one had a 'good side' and an 'evil side'. I didn't go too much into why they did, i just said they did. so Sarenrae was the goddess of healing, light, honesty, good ect. as preached by the good version of her church. But her cult/evil church worshipped her as the goddess of inquisitions, heat, scorched lands, thirst, ect. Even the normally evil gods had a good side. Asmodeus was of course, the evil god of slavery, tyranny, pride, and hell; but his good, and therefore socially-accepted side was the god of law, contracts, justice, courts, ect.
I think I gave each of their versions their own domains, so that in the end, all the domains were available to both good & evil clerics.
I did much the same thing with my RW myth Earth campaign, to deal with why religions of good god did bad things. Every god had a shadow or at least morally ambiguous aspect.