Enchanter Advice


Advice


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So I'm thinking of making an enchanter wizard and wanted to know what your advice would be. He'd be the main caster as well as the party face. Character concept is a Varisian hypnotist/mentalist.

-What should the stat priority look like, now that Charisma matters?
-What should the arcane bond be?
-What are some good feats for an enchanter?
-Should I go for any of the enchanter archetypes? Or any of the other archetypes?
-Are there any traits that are work well?
-Do any prestige classes work well with this?
-What are the really good/bad enchantment spells I should get/avoid?

I'm okay with throwing in some non-optimized choices, so if you have a clever idea go for it.


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It seems I really like sharing my opinion, but if I were you I'd seriously reconsider the class. Wizards aren't designed to be good at being the face. I'd go for a Cha based class like Bard, Sorcerer, or Oracle.

However, if you insist on an Enchanter:

Int > Dex > Con > Cha > Wis > Str

I'd go for Familiar unless you know that your DM would NEVER target your bonded item.

Cosmopolitan to get two class skills and two languages. Examples would be Bluff, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive.

I'd go for the Manipulator subschool. Dazing Touch just sucks, and this replaces it with a decent ability. You get to keep the bonuses to skills as well.

I'd focus on traits that make you a better face and/or get you a +2 to Initiative.

No prestige classes come to mind.

Spells:

Sleep is awesome at first, but drops off quickly.
Charm Person works quite well.
Hideous Laughter is really good.
Confusion is amazing.
Dominate Person and Feeblemind are good.

Stay away from spells that require touch attacks or that fascinate.


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I'll second the familiar...

But I would do the stats a bit different:

Int > Cha = Con > Dex > Wis > Str

I would go with the subschool for manipulator.

Witch would probably be a better pick though.

A level of sorcerer for crossblooded serpentine and undead bloodlines would work really well. Honestly however taking the eldritch heritage traits for rakasha wouldn't be a bad idea either.


nategar05 wrote:

It seems I really like sharing my opinion, but if I were you I'd seriously reconsider the class. Wizards aren't designed to be good at being the face. I'd go for a Cha based class like Bard, Sorcerer, or Oracle.

However, if you insist on an Enchanter:

Int > Dex > Con > Cha > Wis > Str

I'd go for Familiar unless you know that your DM would NEVER target your bonded item.

Cosmopolitan to get two class skills and two languages. Examples would be Bluff, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive....

Wow, thanks! I can see what you mean about going with Sorcerer or Bard, but I'm gunning for Wizard. Cosmopolitan sounds like a great idea, definitely going for that. I like the Manipulator subschool as well. Thanks a lot!

Any other ideas?


I would go with half elf or elf as surprising as that might be.


Abraham spalding wrote:

I'll second the familiar...

But I would do the stats a bit different:

Int > Cha = Con > Dex > Wis > Str

I would go with the subschool for manipulator.

Witch would probably be a better pick though.

A level of sorcerer for crossblooded serpentine and undead bloodlines would work really well. Honestly however taking the eldritch heritage traits for rakasha wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Those stats are what I'm gonna go for, no doubt.

Definitely going with a Viper familiar to start with, not sure what I wanna do with Improved Familiar though. Probably a Faerie Dragon.

I think the Eldritch Heritage with the Rakshasa bloodline. Maestro would definitely fit with the whole hypnotist theme.

With the Witch suggestion I presume you're talking about the Charm hex? Definitely a good option, though I don't know how much I like dipping into other classes just for one trick.


Well I was talking going witch instead of wizard -- but if you are tied to wizard that's obviously a no go -- personally a single level dip of sorcerer as mentioned above would do you a lot of good.

Another option would be to dip bard for performance so you can take the spellsong feat to hide your spells.


Witch can be good but watch out for some missing key spells such as suggestion. What's an enchanter without suggestion? :O

It's still doable.

Deception is a decent patron for an enchanter and grants quite a few useful spells that while not enchantment do help out your beguiling ways. Ventriloquism, and invisibility are real boons. Oh, and time stop as the bonus 9th level spell.

Well, dang. Confusion is already a witch spell. If you can persuade your GM, swap that patron spell for something that isn't already on the witch list.

Don't bother with the Enchantment patron. Most of that is already on the witch spell list.

Didn't anyone doublecheck these?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you're still looking at bonded objects then for fluff reasons you should probably choose the amulet, just so you can go with the whole, "Watch the coin/crystal/pocketwatch," hypnosis shtick.

A snake makes a good choice for a enchanter's animal familiar though, given a snake's "hypnotic" abilities in fiction.


One level sorcerer dip for fey bloodline does nasty things if you like compulsions.


clawoftiamat wrote:
One level sorcerer dip for fey bloodline does nasty things if you like compulsions.

Skipping a level of wizard just for a +2 on compulsion? No thanks. Why would I want to spend more time not knowing Dominate Monster? Or Time Stop? Or Wish? Might take Spell Focus: Enchantment if my DM lets me come up with a feat similar to Augment Summoning or something.

Liberty's Edge

To make an enchanter and party face Id second Sorcerer.

Serpentine Sorcerer can enchant many more types of creatures than a normal enchanter. Add in Threnodic Spell to the Serpentine Sorcerer and the list grows to include undead as well.

Could also go Human Crossblooded Fey/Serpentine and eventually add in threnodic spell as well. I mention human b/c as crossblooded you'll want their favored class bonus. But adding in Fey to the mix will give a +2 to do the DC of all compulsion spells.

So considering a lvl 1 Crossblooded Fey/Serpent Sorcerer with a 20 cha the DC for sleep becomes 18 without feats. The Sleep would work on humanoids, monstrous humanoids, animals, and magical beasts. Add in Spell Focus Enchantment and your compulsion spells DC for a lvl 1 spell is 19 while your charm spells DC is 17.

Just a thought. Of course if you are sold on wizard enchanter then I'll second the above suggestions on stats, feats, and manipulator school.

Shadow Lodge

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Other things to consider:

A human can return the bonus feat for Eye For Talent. That will give the enchanter a +2 Sense Motive, and the familiar gets a free +2 to any ability score. This is true even with Improved Familiar, so if there's a certain trick you want to run with your familiar, this will help.

I do like Eldrtich Heritage (Rakshasa), and you just need to make sure you have a use for the Skill Focus (Disguise).

Don't forget traits! If you need to get Bluff, Disguise, Sense Motive, and/or Diplomacy in your class skill list, take a couple traits to fill your gaps.

Progression could be something like this:

Traits: Fast-Talker, Ease of Faith
1: Skill Focus (Disguise), Cosmopolitan (Disguise and Sense Motive)
3: Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa)
5: Spell Focus (Enchantment), Piercing Spell

and so on...


I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.


nategar05 wrote:
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.

Well he could always just be an elf.


hgsolo wrote:
nategar05 wrote:
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.
Well he could always just be an elf.

Fair point, Elves make awesome Wizards. However, every bit helps so I'd try to Perception as a class skill anyway.


nategar05 wrote:
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.

You know, this isn't something I buy. Don't get me wrong, Perception is definitely important and everyone should have a couple ranks in it at least, but I've found that maxing it out is a waste for characters that need it. Rogues, Rangers, Inquisitors, Bards, and Barbarians of course should get it close to max, but when I play a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or whatever I haven't really felt like its something I desperately need. I'll let the Rogue take care of that and save my limited skills for Spellcraft, Knowledges, Fly, Craft, and Linguistics. Besides, after staying up late reading by candlelight for 10 years my eye's aren't what they used to be.


OmegaZ wrote:
nategar05 wrote:
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.
You know, this isn't something I buy. Don't get me wrong, Perception is definitely important and everyone should have a couple ranks in it at least, but I've found that maxing it out is a waste for characters that need it. Rogues, Rangers, Inquisitors, Bards, and Barbarians of course should get it close to max, but when I play a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or whatever I haven't really felt like its something I desperately need. I'll let the Rogue take care of that and save my limited skills for Spellcraft, Knowledges, Fly, Craft, and Linguistics. Besides, after staying up late reading by candlelight for 10 years my eye's aren't what they used to be.

That's fair, flavorwise.

Mechanically, that's also fair for a Sorcerer or Cleric. As a Wizard, however, you should have a lot of skill points per level. You should have enough for everything you listed AND max ranks in Perception. Yes as long as someone in the party has it, things will be easier as far as things go. However, acting in surprise rounds and helping look for things really comes in handy no matter what character you are or role you have. Also handy is being able to act in surprise rounds. IMO anyway.


Wizard's actually make a good choice for high perception checks -- especially if elf with a familiar -- after all you got a +2 for being elf and then alertness from the familiar and two checks from having the familiar too.

If you go half elf you are even better off since you'll have alertness, skill focus and keen senses (that's a +7 before ranks).


nategar05 wrote:
hgsolo wrote:
nategar05 wrote:
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest finding a way to get Perception as a class skill as well. It's a really really really important skill.
Well he could always just be an elf.
Fair point, Elves make awesome Wizards. However, every bit helps so I'd try to Perception as a class skill anyway.

As with everything else, depends on your game. If your DM is the type to throw a lot of random encounters at night when keeping watch, absolutely everyone should max perception (or you could set up an alarm spell). If you are only expecting to need perception for surprise rounds, scouting, etc. you should be ok if a couple of people have it maxed.

Although, Abraham makes a good point about how easy it is to go high perception with your wizard.

Dark Archive

I would not bring charisma above a 12 for this. The benefit of being an enchanter is the +2 (eventually higher) bonuses you get to all your social skills, which simulate that higher charisma. The Cosmopolitan feat has already been mentioned, but get it.

Cosmopolitan to get Bluff and Sense Motive as class skills, the Ease of Faith trait to get +1 to Diplomacy and get it as a class skill, and go with a Thrush familiar at first level.

Half-Elf is great for this because you can also bring in skill focus. Gnome is less optimal but will boost up charisma if that matters to you a bunch.

As a Half-Elf Enchanter with a thrush familiar, stats looking like:

Str 8 (-1), Dex 14 (+2), Con 14 (+2), Int 18 (+4), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 12 (+1)

Feats Cosmopolitan, Skill Focus (Diplomacy

Your Bluff score is +7, your Sense Motive is +4, but your Diplomacy is a ridiculous +14 (+1 rank, +1 Cha, +1 trait, +2 enhanter, +3 feat, +3 class skill, +3 thrush)

As a matter of fact, your thrush, who can speak common can aid another on your diplomacy attempts (at -1 at first level) and if he rolls an 11 or higher, your attempt just went up to a +16.

Everyone is your friend.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
Witch can be good but watch out for some missing key spells such as suggestion. What's an enchanter without suggestion? :O

Is d20pfsrd in error? Because it totally lists Suggestion as a witch spell, and I'd hate to have been cheating with my Witch-enchanter (who is totally awesome).

And its totally worth the level for Serpentine/Fey bloodlines. Hold Person/Animals/MagicalBeasts/MonstrousHumanoids as a level 2 spell with a ridiculous DC is worth waiting an extra level for the bigger stuff... and you're still on par with getting new spells with a base Sorcerer.


If you don't want to spend the feat on cosmopolitan, you can pick up traits to cover two of the three social skills, and since frankly sense motive isn't that necessary (your wis focused class can cover that) you're good to go. You don't NEED a high charisma for an enchanter, but it can't hurt to put a few points into it, especially cause when they try and resist your effects it can help mitigate a broken spell.

Ditto on the Thrush or viper familiar. Especially coupled with a Half elf, your bluff or diplomacy can go through the roof, ending up even higher than a sorc or bard the whole way.

As mentioned above, if you want to dip into Serpent and Undead bloodlines of a sorc, you suddenly get the ability to cast mind affecting spells on just about any animal or undead as well, making charm person that much stronger.

Good feats include Spell focus, skill focus, and even some stuff like Antagonize, Taunt (if you're small), any of the other , and a bunch of ones from the 3.0/3.5 splat books can be fun if you don't mind spending a turn to mess with your opponents rather than casting a spell at them. In addition the ubiquitous toughness and improved init always help, since survival is key, and going first means you can enchant the evil character before they get into combat.

Skill wise, keep in mind that you can't take fly till you actually have the ability to practice ever day, which means at the earliest level 5.

Prestige classes are few and far between in Pathfinder, but if you can get your DM to allow 3.0/3.5 ones there are a few that might suit your purposes. Just bare in mind that you'll not gain any ability progression in your school abilities if you take a prestige class, so waiting till at least level 8 is good.


KrispyXIV wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Witch can be good but watch out for some missing key spells such as suggestion. What's an enchanter without suggestion? :O

Is d20pfsrd in error? Because it totally lists Suggestion as a witch spell, and I'd hate to have been cheating with my Witch-enchanter (who is totally awesome).

Oops. My bad. It's there. I dunno how I managed to miss it. I must have been thinking of something else.


our RotRL party has an enchanter/red wizard (we play in FR) stated with cha 14 n int 18 (we made em with 18 points) andhe is the party face, has diplomacy, intimidate n sense motive, plus al lthe useful knowledges, and besides that, he is the key player every time we fight, a confusion well placed wreaks havoc between monsters :P (barbarian and samurai do the rest)

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