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Going to start a lv 10, 1 shot game in 2-3 weeks and I need some serious advice!
Stats are, 20 point build. All Pathfinder material, NO 3rd party/3.5e sources. Lv 10 starting gold, 60k?
Party set up is:
1) lv 10 Fighter
2) Lv 10 Rogue Scout/Sniper(Range)
3) Lv 10 Wizard (not sure the specifics)
4) Lv 10 me... Cleric/Paladin
The DM has told us that the Party will need a party face, aka someone who can diplo, intermediate..etc . I think the rouge is going to cover that...
Deities are Golarion, but no deity clerics should still be possible.
No evil alignments/Deities.
So... What should I make??? A summoner Cleric? A healbot Cleric? A healer Paladin(Is there even such a thing?) A High intimidate Paladin who use Dazzling Display to scare the good into any foe? (I think I can hit a 27+ at lv 10 in Intimidate BEFORE the d20 roll.)
What should I play?!?!?!?
PLEASE HELP!!!
Thank you.
I would say archerdin, but the rogue should shine somehow, and the paladin would so completely outshine him it's not even funny.
Why are you set on cleric / paladin? If it's due to healing, a bard, witch, oracle, ranger, alchemist, or Inquisitor can do it too.
Holy Tactician can be fun!
Play whichever one you think you'll have the most fun with. It's a one shot, so you don't have to worry about any long term growth for the character.
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There are several feats in Ultimate Magic that boost what happens when you use Lay on Hands.
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy
Radiant Charge
Reward of Grace
Reward of Life
Word of Healing
If you end up going with Paladin, these feats can be choices to consider.
Also, do not under value the Heal skill if your party is going to get some down time. Like resting for the night.
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I would say archerdin, but the rogue should shine somehow, and the paladin would so completely outshine him it's not even funny.
Why are you set on cleric / paladin? If it's due to healing, a bard, witch, oracle, ranger, alchemist, or Inquisitor can do it too.
Holy Tactician can be fun!
(?)As in the Paladin would outshine the Rogue? @_@?
As for why Cleric/Paladin, I was originally going to play a Paladin in the 1 shot, but when one of the players dusted off a lv 10 fighter of his to use, I decided that it might be better to play a dedicated healer for the party.
I am thinking of a summoning Cleric, with a focus on Sacred Summons and spamming Lantern Archons. (The ideal came from some manga I once read. :P)
Also, these 2 classes, specifically the Cleric, are classes I am familiar with.
I HATE pure Oracles (the 1 spell level behind the Cleric is so not worth it... bad experience), not sure about Bards... (they look complex.), find Alchemists... wanabe healers and have no ideal how to play a Inquisitor.
Only other class that interest me is the Witch, but again... I have NO IDEAL where to start!
So other then a summon Lantern Archon spammer what other options are there? (I am asking cos I have no time to read through each and every class to discover their hidden gems.)
Going to start a lv 10, 1 shot game in 2-3 weeks and I need some serious advice!
Stats are, 20 point build. All Pathfinder material, NO 3rd party/3.5e sources. Lv 10 starting gold, 60k?Party set up is:
1) lv 10 Fighter
2) Lv 10 Rogue Scout/Sniper(Range)
3) Lv 10 Wizard (not sure the specifics)
4) Lv 10 me... Cleric/PaladinThe DM has told us that the Party will need a party face, aka someone who can diplo, intermediate..etc . I think the rouge is going to cover that...
Deities are Golarion, but no deity clerics should still be possible.
No evil alignments/Deities.So... What should I make??? A summoner Cleric? A healbot Cleric? A healer Paladin(Is there even such a thing?) A High intimidate Paladin who use Dazzling Display to scare the good into any foe? (I think I can hit a 27+ at lv 10 in Intimidate BEFORE the d20 roll.)
What should I play?!?!?!?
PLEASE HELP!!!
Thank you.
Why not make a Warpriest? Emphasis order goes Str, Con, Wis, Dex, Cha, Int, or Int then Cha, depending on your preference.
A Human cleric could look like this at 1st level:
18 (16+2), 14, 14, 7, 14, 9, which nets you a +4 hit / +6 damage, 2 skill points per level (3 if favored class is applied), and up to 4th level spellcasting.
By 10th level you should comfortably be able to drop a stat point into Wisdom and afford a +3 wisdom item (9,000 gp) bringing your Wisdom to 18. Put your other stat point into Constitution and grab a +3 Constitution item (another 9,000 gp), bringing your Con to 18, for another +20 HP. That's 18,000 gp out of 62,000 gp. We will be using bull's strength to bring your Str to 22 during adventures, but the Wisdom gives you some bonus spells, and Constitution keeps you healthy.
For weapons, I'd get a good 2-hander such as a +2 longspear (about 8,305 gp), and perhaps a sling since it applies your full strength bonus to your attacks. The +2 longspear will be your main weapon. Consider wearing some spiked gauntlets or armor spikes as well, in case you need a backup weapon in a grapple.
That's 26,305 gp. We need some protective items. Go ahead and grab a +3 resistance item (such as a cloak or ring) for another 9,000 gp, bringing us to 35,305 gp. With the rest of your money, consider buying utility items such as boots of striding (2,000 gp for +10 ft continuously), a CL 1 ring of resist energy (acid, cold, fire, and electricity) for 16,500 gp to give you 10 points of resistance to different energy types.
That leaves 8,125 gp. Since you'll probably want to be a melee cleric, consider picking up a generic enlarge person item. As a free action you'll be able to enlarge yourself for a total of 10 rounds per day (needn't be consecutive) for 400 gp + 400 gp for every 10 additional rounds per day you want to be able to enlarge yourself. For simplicity, let's go with the 10 round minimum at 400 gp.
With the remaining 7,725 gp, grab a +2 breastplate for 4,350 gp, leaving you with 3,375 gp. With that, grab a handy haversack at 2,500 gp, and spend the rest of holy symbols, a mount, and some traveling conveniences.
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Basically the idea is to be a melee bruiser, while buffing and healing your party. See if you can get your party to go in on some healing wands with your combined party funds.
When preparing spells, save DCs aren't your primary concern, so stick with buff and support spells. If you believe trouble is on the wind, buff with bull's strength to get a quick +2/+3 to hit and damage that will last you 10 minutes at this level. Use spells like shield of faith, and greater magic weapon on your friends. Good spells to prepare virtually always include death ward and freedom of movement.
This should get your basics covered.
If you want advice on domains, I'd suggest the Liberation domain. It's a good domain and it suits a warrior cleric very well, because it auto-hits you with freedom of movement when that would be convenient, and allows you to ward your group against terrible conditions. This helps you be a better bruiser, tank, and supporter all around.
You could also consider taking a level of Fighter or Barbarian for weapon or armor proficiencies and movement speed. If you're lawful good, you could consider a Paladin dip. If you're good at all, you should consider using the bestow grace spell on an item to enhance your ability to successfully defend against spells, making you a better front-liner.
If you're allowed to be Neutral, I'd suggest making use of animate dead when useful. Undead are already dead, and if your enemies are destroying them then they're not killing your party. 50 gp per hit die seems like a lot, but it is far less than the price to have someone raised and restored, or the price of a total party kill.
If you have a spellcaster who enjoys spells like stinking cloud or cloudkill, your undead would be a great asset to the party combined with them, since you could send your undead into the clouds to fight foes who are incapable of taking actions (nauseated) and taking Constitution damage, both of which undead monsters are immune to. It also allows you to treat monsters you fight as treasure. If you are attacked by a hydra, animate it as a fast zombie and ride it.
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The rogue is a glass cannon; someone who does quite a lot of damage to one target, but can't take much damage. The paladin, as an archer build (think smite evil, rapid shot, and manyshot), does MUCH more damage to a target than the rogue would. And he's a face, and a tank, and he can heal.
...in fact, why does anyone play a rogue any more?
...oh, wait. Skills.
The rogue is a glass cannon; someone who does quite a lot of damage to one target, but can't take much damage. The paladin, as an archer build (think smite evil, rapid shot, and manyshot), does MUCH more damage to a target than the rogue would. And he's a face, and a tank, and he can heal.
...in fact, why does anyone play a rogue any more?
...oh, wait. Skills.
Bards are better at skills. Rangers are about as good at skills but are better fighters and have more utility both inside and outside of combat.
EDIT: Don't feel bad. Rogues have always been pretty poor. Even in pre-3E D&D, rogues have the fastest XP progression, as some sort of balancing factor for the fact they don't fight very well or cast spells, but you usually wanted one for traps, so it made multiclass X/rogues more viable, or made rogues a little more attractive due to being able to level up faster.
Problem was everyone kind of stopped leveling around 10th level, where you suddenly stopped getting lots more HP and stat bumps every level, and XP slowed to a crawl unless you were actually following the rules and getting XP for all the wealth you were amassing (many people didn't).
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Only other class that interest me is the Witch, but again... I have NO IDEAL where to start!
take the hedge witch archtype so you can spontaneously cast cure spells as needed, other wise focus your feats on hexes. I've heard of people getting a familiar that can use UMD, have said familiar use a wand of ill omen(no save) quickly followed by you placing misfortune hex on them, they'll have to roll twice and take the worst save, and if they fail, then they are rolling twice for everything if you can keep it up with cackle.
so many good hexes too, cackle, evil eye, flight, healing, misfortune, slumber.
for your major hex, i'd really recommend retribution, although major healing might help more with healing, but then again, with 60k gold, being a single stat caster and the fun fact that wands of CLW (CL 1) are cheap you could just rely on wands for healing
get a head band of int (+6) if you can, you could pump your int up to 28, which make the saves for your hexes 24. just remember to use evil eye on their saves (-4) then get ill omen off before you use misfortune
actually, with everyone starting with 60k gold on a one off adventure, you could probably tell everyone to buy one wand of CLW each, give them to you and then you could make what ever you want
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Going to start a lv 10, 1 shot game in 2-3 weeks and I need some serious advice!
Stats are, 20 point build. All Pathfinder material, NO 3rd party/3.5e sources. Lv 10 starting gold, 60k?Party set up is:
1) lv 10 Fighter
2) Lv 10 Rogue Scout/Sniper(Range)
3) Lv 10 Wizard (not sure the specifics)
4) Lv 10 me... Cleric/PaladinThe DM has told us that the Party will need a party face, aka someone who can diplo, intermediate..etc . I think the rouge is going to cover that...
Deities are Golarion, but no deity clerics should still be possible.
No evil alignments/Deities.So... What should I make??? A summoner Cleric? A healbot Cleric? A healer Paladin(Is there even such a thing?) A High intimidate Paladin who use Dazzling Display to scare the good into any foe? (I think I can hit a 27+ at lv 10 in Intimidate BEFORE the d20 roll.)
What should I play?!?!?!?
PLEASE HELP!!!
Thank you.Why not make a Warpriest? Emphasis order goes Str, Con, Wis, Dex, Cha, Int, or Int then Cha, depending on your preference.
A Human cleric could look like this at 1st level:
18 (16+2), 14, 14, 7, 14, 9, which nets you a +4 hit / +6 damage, 2 skill points per level (3 if favored class is applied), and up to 4th level spellcasting.
By 10th level you should comfortably be able to drop a stat point into Wisdom and afford a +3 wisdom item (9,000 gp) bringing your Wisdom to 18. Put your other stat point into Constitution and grab a +3 Constitution item (another 9,000 gp), bringing your Con to 18, for another +20 HP. That's 18,000 gp out of 62,000 gp. We will be using bull's strength to bring your Str to 22 during adventures, but the Wisdom gives you some bonus spells, and Constitution keeps you healthy.
For weapons, I'd get a good 2-hander such as a +2 longspear (about 8,305 gp), and perhaps a sling since it applies your full strength bonus to your attacks. The +2 longspear will be your main weapon. Consider wearing some spiked gauntlets or armor spikes as well, in case you...
Never thought to play a warpriest before. The drop to 7 Int is not allowed in my play group for common sense reasons, but the whole ideal looks intresting. I will have to look more into this and see if my party is ok with another melee in the party.
Thank you for coming up with this comprehensive and detailed build. I just might play it!
PS: Sorry if this is a noob question, but how do you calculate items that give spell like effects via charges? The Core Rule Book only says Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)... what does this means?
The rogue is a glass cannon; someone who does quite a lot of damage to one target, but can't take much damage. The paladin, as an archer build (think smite evil, rapid shot, and manyshot), does MUCH more damage to a target than the rogue would. And he's a face, and a tank, and he can heal.
...in fact, why does anyone play a rogue any more?
...oh, wait. Skills.
My friend stated that one of the archetypes lets you sneak attack by moving 20 feet before you attack?
He has been playing for a long time, so I think he knows what he is doing. (cross fingers... :P)Only other class that interest me is the Witch, but again... I have NO IDEAL where to start!take the hedge witch archtype so you can spontaneously cast cure spells as needed, other wise focus your feats on hexes. I've heard of people getting a familiar that can use UMD, have said familiar use a wand of ill omen(no save) quickly followed by you placing misfortune hex on them, they'll have to roll twice and take the worst save, and if they fail, then they are rolling twice for everything if you can keep it up with cackle.
so many good hexes too, cackle, evil eye, flight, healing, misfortune, slumber.
for your major hex, i'd really recommend retribution, although major healing might help more with healing, but then again, with 60k gold, being a single stat caster and the fun fact that wands of CLW (CL 1) are cheap you could just rely on wands for healing
get a head band of int (+6) if you can, you could pump your int up to 28, which make the saves for your hexes 24. just remember to use evil eye on their saves (-4) then get ill omen off before you use misfortune
actually, with everyone starting with 60k gold on a one off adventure, you could probably tell everyone to buy one wand of CLW each, give them to you and then you could make what ever you want
Humm... the witch does look very interesting. Only worry about playing one is the fear that the class is a "not here, not there" class. Aka it seems to get a bit of everything, but does not seems to excel in any one field... or maybe thats just the feel I am getting. Thanks for the information.
Never thought to play a warpriest before. The drop to 7 Int is not allowed in my play group for common sense reasons, but the whole ideal looks intresting. I will have to look more into this and see if my party is ok with another melee in the party.
Before I go further, I want to know what you mean by "common sense reasons". Characters are sentient and can communicate and function in society at Int 3. The difference in ability between someone with a 5 Int and a 10 Int is only 15%, and you are allowed to drop to 7 for a reason.
Real heroes have weaknesses. A rule of thumb is people who excel are compensating for something else (I wish I could find the dollhouse scene where Topher explains this concept). But I seriously want to know what is "common sense" about banning a human with 7 Int.
I say this as someone who would likely be statted with a 7 Charisma if mechanized.
Thank you for coming up with this comprehensive and detailed build. I just might play it!
You're very welcome. Glad you like it.
PS: Sorry if this is a noob question, but how do you calculate items that give spell like effects via charges? The Core Rule Book only says Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)... what does this means?
Not a problem. The magic item rules are a very effective, but they can be very difficult to use without previous experience, and it is very easy to make mistakes.
In this particular instance, we are pricing it in the same way the Boots of Speed item is priced (you can check the boots of speed item in the Wondrous Item section). The boots of speed allow you to use a free action to gain the benefits of a haste spell on you for up to 10 rounds per day, and it needn't be consecutive. A haste spell has a duration measured in rounds, and at caster level 5 gives five rounds. The boots effectively have 2 charges spread over rounds of use.
We take this and apply it to the enlarge person. We determine the value of enlarge person continuously, which is Caster Level 1 * Spell Level 1 * 2000 gp. Since Enlarge Person is measured in minutes, the base value is multiplied by 2. So it becomes 4,000 gp (1 * 1 * 2000 * 2). We now divide this base price by 5 to determine the cost per charge (or in this case 10 round increments), resulting in 400 gp per minute to be enlarged per day.
By looking at the rules for creating items and then reverse engineering existing items, you can learn how they priced things. Truthfully, they are very, accurate to the price formulas.
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PS: Sorry if this is a noob question, but how do you calculate items that give spell like effects via charges? The Core Rule Book only says Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)... what does this means?Not a problem. The magic item rules are a very effective, but they can be very difficult to use without previous experience, and it is very easy to make mistakes.
In this particular instance, we are pricing it in the same way the Boots of Speed item is priced (you can check the boots of speed item in the Wondrous Item section). The boots of speed allow you to use a free action to gain the benefits of a haste spell on you for up to 10 rounds per day, and it needn't be consecutive. A haste spell has a duration measured in rounds, and at caster level 5 gives five rounds. The boots effectively have 2 charges spread over rounds of use.
We take this and apply it to the enlarge person. We determine the value of enlarge person continuously,...
The base value(Caster Level 1 * Spell Level 1 * 2000 gp) is the one that is divided by 5? Not the final value(Multiplied by x/per level)?
I guess what I am trying to say is that I understand your explanation up till the point where you wrote "Since Enlarge Person is measured in minutes, the base value is multiplied by 2. So it becomes 4,000 gp (1 * 1 * 2000 * 2)". I don't quite understand what do you mean by this sentence...
Is the final cost is multiplied by whether the spell is 1round/level or 1min/level, 10mins/level, 1hr/level and so on? If so how much is the multiplication raised each time? x2, x4...etc?
I guess what I am trying to say is that I understand your explanation up till the point where you wrote "Since Enlarge Person is measured in minutes, the base value is multiplied by 2. So it becomes 4,000 gp (1 * 1 * 2000 * 2)". I don't quite understand what do you mean by this sentence...
Sorry, I was very tired and explained it pretty poorly.
Let's look at the chart. On the chart, it gives the basic cost formulas for the magical effects. For a continuous or use activated effect, the starting cost is Caster Level * Spell Level * 2000 gp. However, it has a superscript "2" noting there is a special consideration. At the bottom of the chart, we see a summary of these special situation.
Specifically: "2 - If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half."
The spell we are emulating (enlarge person) is measured in minutes, so the cost of the item is 1 (CL) * 1 (Spell Level) * 2000 * 2 = 4,000 gp. Now we can decide to give it charges per day, so we divide 4,000 gp by 5 to see the cost per charge (in this case, 800 gp). Since we're modeling the item after boots of speed, the charge itself is the duration of the spell (10 rounds) split however you desire.
I will apologize for giving the wrong values earlier. It should have been 800 gp, not 400 gp. For some reason, briefly, I was thinking about you crafting it yourself which would half the cost (probably because most of my clerics will take Craft Wondrous Item). I apologize if this caused you confusion.
The "final cost" is the cost after all the little multiplications, divisions, and sometimes additions are done. That is the final price of the magic item.
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Also, as a bonus...
You might be wondering why anyone would choose to have a magic item that is divided by charges/duration instead of continuous. There are two major reasons. In the case of spells like enlarge person, having it active constantly could be very annoying, especially when it came to squeezing through areas or being unable to move through spaces, or generally just having a set of drawbacks.
Then, there is the case of material components. Spells that require costly material components are far more expensive to make into magic items. For example, let's pretend we want to make a magic item that gives us the benefit of the stoneskin spell. That's a pretty sexy spell, right? Who wouldn't want to have a bit of damage reduction?
The thing is, stoneskin has a material component that costs 250 gp. You have to provide this cost for every charge the item will have (if it runs out of charges like a wand), or you have to provide the cost 100 times for a continuous or at-will item, and 50 times if it has a limited number of charges per day.
Thus an item that would give the benefits of stoneskin 24/7 would be valued as followed: 7 (CL) * 4 (Sp. Level) * 2000 * 1.5 (10 min/level duration) + (250 * 100 = 25000) = 109,000 gp. That's pretty darn expensive!
Making it grant stoneskin for 7 minutes per day (or until the stoneskin was consumed) would cost:
7 (CL) * 4 (Sp. Level) * 2000 * 1.5 (10 min/level) + (250 * 50 = 12500) / 5 = 19,300 gp. Wow, that's a huge difference.
Now we could also have made it a consumable item that breaks when you use it, or burns out. We would follow the same pricing formula as the first example, except we would divide the price by 50 to determine the final cost. So 109,000 gp / 50 = 2,180 gp.
So if you wanted a wondrous item, such as a balm of stoneskin that hardened your flesh or created a protective barrier on you for 7 minutes, it would cost 2,180 gp.
Does any of this help?
There are optimization guides floating around for Witch and Inquisitor, both of whom could also do quite well. They're not hard to find. They're listed in a thread or two for lists of guides. If all else fails you can Google for them.
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I guess what I am trying to say is that I understand your explanation up till the point where you wrote "Since Enlarge Person is measured in minutes, the base value is multiplied by 2. So it becomes 4,000 gp (1 * 1 * 2000 * 2)". I don't quite understand what do you mean by this sentence...Sorry, I was very tired and explained it pretty poorly.
Let's look at the chart. On the chart, it gives the basic cost formulas for the magical effects. For a continuous or use activated effect, the starting cost is Caster Level * Spell Level * 2000 gp. However, it has a superscript "2" noting there is a special consideration. At the bottom of the chart, we see a summary of these special situation.
Specifically: "2 - If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half."
The spell we are emulating (enlarge person) is measured in minutes, so the cost of the item is 1 (CL) * 1 (Spell Level) * 2000 * 2 = 4,000 gp. Now we can decide to give it charges per day, so we divide 4,000 gp by 5 to see the cost per charge (in this case, 800 gp). Since we're modeling the item after boots of speed, the charge itself is the duration of the spell (10 rounds) split however you desire.
I will apologize for giving the wrong values earlier. It should have been 800 gp, not 400 gp. For some reason, briefly, I was thinking about you crafting it yourself which would half the cost (probably because most of my clerics will take Craft Wondrous Item). I apologize if this caused you confusion.
The "final cost" is the cost after all the little multiplications, divisions, and sometimes additions are done. That is the final price of the magic item.
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Also, as a...
Yap, I understand your explanation. Thanks again for going into such detail over this.
Just one more thing... what feats are appropriate for a Warpriest? Should I focus on a specific weapon? Or do I grab stuff like extra channeling for more healing?
Lol, sometime I feel that whoever wrote the Core Rule Book wrote it from the perspective of someone who has been playing 3.5/PnP RPGs all the time and never thought that what is written could be confusing to new players like myself. (Which is most likely true... lol)
There are optimization guides floating around for Witch and Inquisitor, both of whom could also do quite well. They're not hard to find. They're listed in a thread or two for lists of guides. If all else fails you can Google for them.
I read some of them. Is just that I am kinda busy at the moment and don't have time to read them in detail or go about looking at the specific feats,powers etc. That's why Ashiel detailed break down on what to get helps a lot.
Paladins are more fun than clerics.
Yap, I understand your explanation. Thanks again for going into such detail over this.
Not a problem. Glad to help. ^-^
Just one more thing... what feats are appropriate for a Warpriest? Should I focus on a specific weapon? Or do I grab stuff like extra channeling for more healing?
Well the nice thing about a Warpriest is the fact you're not really locked into any particular feat choices. Much of your combat ability will come due to buffs from your spells or magic items you have created, so I would indeed recommend Craft Wondrous Item, and maybe Craft Magic Arms & Armor. I would usually give Wondrous Item priority if you are going with a build that is fairly feat-starved, however.
Believe it or not, I'd actually say you can skip Power Attack if you want to. Because your BAB is lower than a strait-martial character, the sudden dive in accuracy will more than likely make you loose damage due to missing often.
Instead, consider picking up feats that make you more versatile on the battlefield, or improve your defenses. Here's a quick rundown of a few feats that kind of jump out for doing this.
- Blind-fight: This feat allows you to ignore most of the penalties for being blinded, and roll twice for concealment to determine if you actually hit. This feat is worth having, especially given the ways to grant concealment or put your lights out.
Blinded Condition:Blinded: The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and takes a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against the blinded character. Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone.
- Armor Proficiency (Heavy): As a warpriest cleric, you will probably want to wear armor heavier than medium, but you don't begin proficient in it, and not being proficient will be terrible for your attack rolls. You can either burn a feat, or dip into a class with heavy proficiency, such as Fighter or Paladin. A LG warpriest might consider the Paladin more attractive for stuff like Divine Grace, while a Fighter 5/Cleric 15 can get weapon specialization and a +3/+3 weapon training while moving in full speed in mithral plate mail and enjoying a few bonus feats. Or you can burn a feat and go Cleric 20 if you prefer the casting.
- Combat Reflexes: Since I'd recommend using a pole-arm (any pole arm) regularly, and Combat Reflexes allows you to make opportunity attacks while flat-footed, this one is worth considering as well.
- Combat Casting: This feat helps you to cast spells while in melee, which is something you may have to do from time to time.
- Save Boosters: Feats such as Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will are actually pretty good defensively speaking. Each is a +10% to that respective saving throw. The greater versions of these feats aren't bad either.
- Improved Initiative: Often argued to be the best feat in the game in 3.x, it still holds true here. Improved Initiative cannot do you wrong, as acting first - or having the option to act first - is a good thing.
- Toughness: This is an extra 20 hit points over 20 levels. At 10th level it's +10 HP. Having it is like having a d10 HD, or +2 Con for the purposes of HP. Not bad for a front-line priest.
- Leadership: Often banned in games (but not in my games :3), leadership is a good feat if you want a few followers, which is pretty thematic for a religious icon like a sufficiently leveled cleric. If you can take this feat, you might consider grabbing an arcane caster to function as a buff-buddy for your party (someone who hangs back and casts stuff like haste, bull's strength, displacement, blur, and so forth). If you have him grab crafting feats as well, you and your minion can craft items for the party as well as yourself (if you have Craft Wondrous, and he has Scribe Scroll, Craft Arms & Armor, Craft Wand, Craft Ring, Craft Rod, and Craft Construct, the two of you can work together to create almost anything).
- Extend Spell: This feat is pretty decent for extending the duration of some of your favorite buff spells, allowing you keep up certain spells for longer durations.
- Quicken Spell: Also a good spell for warpriests because it allows you to rapidly buff up as needed. Spells like Divine Favor are good options for this (divine favor quickened allows you to give yourself a +3 to hit and damage for 10 rounds; though if you have time to cast divine power, it's much stronger and uses a lower level slot, but we're getting our buffs quick this way).
Quicken spell is also useful if you want to create magic items that let you cast spells as a swift action. For example, you might not want to spend actions casting things like bless. It makes the item far more expensive, but can allow you to do things like create swift-action true-strike items. A once per day swift-action true strike would be useful as a surprise when trying to bind someone in a grapple, for example.
- Step-Up: This feat is excellent for screwing with archers and spellcasters. There's an advanced version in the APG which allows you to move up to 10 ft as an immediate action as well. Always a good consideration for a front-liner.
But ultimately it depends on what you're doing and why. A lot of your strength will come from your spells, so you have a bit of leeway when determining your feats. Try to get an idea as to exactly how you want to play your warpriest. For example, if you're going to be a secondary tank, you might prefer to be more sturdy, whereas pressing for more damage means you might want to focus on offensive feats more, such as Step-Up. There are also good feats in the APG, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. Just take about 10-20 minutes and browse through them and see if anything jumps out at you.
Lol, sometime I feel that whoever wrote the Core Rule Book wrote it from the perspective of someone who has been playing 3.5/PnP RPGs all the time and never thought that what is written could be confusing to new players like myself. (Which is most likely true... lol)
You're right. There's a lot of stuff that seems to have been taken for granted in the PFRPG because the creators have been playing it for a long time, and their target audience had been playing for a long time. Because of this a few explanations, notes, and even some instructions were accidentally left out, and needed to be errata'd back in (IIRC, there was something about the core rulebook not explaining ability score increases from leveling, and stuff like that).
Anyway, hope this helps. Happy gaming.
PS: I'm still curious as to what you meant by the ability score thing.
You can easily run a healing Witch if you want, utilizing the Hedge Witch archetype, Healing Hex, Major Healing Hex (I'd skip this for level 10, personally, but it is a second Hex heal per day per person), and Scars Hex (VERY IMPORTANT due to the unlimited range on Hexes bonus it grants vs. the target, which means ranged healing).
Personally, I find Clerics to be boring. An Oracle is just as strong a healer (and will still have the same cap out on spell levels), particularly if you take the Life Mystery. The Paladin will just barely be walking into 3rd level spells, but the real meat of the Paladin is not healing. You'd be much better off with a Litany of Righteousness/Smite sort of thing and keeping a wand or two around. To really be a healing Paladin, you have to heavily invest in your Lay on Hands. Hospitaler is a good archetype for this (it divorces your Channel Energy uses from your Lay on Hands uses, meaning more uses per day all around), while the Divine Hunter gives the best ranged healing option for the Paladin that you'll ever see, though this treads on a number of other things you might not be so keen on.
Lastly, Bards and Inquisitors are great healers. Spontaneous casting is a wonderful thing for your spell slots and, as such, both have some tremendous advantages.
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Just a little extra info, I'm going as a healer cos I realize that most of my fellow players don't seem to like playing proper healing classes. To some of them healing means able to use a CLW. Which is fine for out of combat healing... but is lacking in-combat.
The other 2 players that do play Healers have settled on non-spellcasting classes.
Yap, I understand your explanation. Thanks again for going into such detail over this.Not a problem. Glad to help. ^-^
Just one more thing... what feats are appropriate for a Warpriest? Should I focus on a specific weapon? Or do I grab stuff like extra channeling for more healing?Well the nice thing about a Warpriest is the fact you're not really locked into any particular feat choices. Much of your combat ability will come due to buffs from your spells or magic items you have created, so I would indeed recommend Craft Wondrous Item, and maybe Craft Magic Arms & Armor. I would usually give Wondrous Item priority if you are going with a build that is fairly feat-starved, however.
Believe it or not, I'd actually say you can skip Power Attack if you want to. Because your BAB is lower than a strait-martial character, the sudden dive in accuracy will more than likely make you loose damage due to missing often.
Instead, consider picking up feats that make you more versatile on the battlefield, or improve your defenses. Here's a quick rundown of a few feats that kind of jump out for doing this.
[list]
Blind-fight: This feat allows you to ignore most of the penalties for being blinded, and roll twice for concealment to determine if you actually hit. This feat is worth having, especially given the ways to grant concealment or put your lights out. ** spoiler omitted **...
The List of feats is almost similar to what a caster cleric (I'm currently playing one) has. So the focus is to make you more of a versatile melee fighter. You can melee and while you are not as good a pure fighter or ranger you have a ton of spells to back you up.
What is your take on Prestige Classes? in place of Multi-classing?
I am thinking of going 8 levels of Cleric and 2 levels of Fighter for a more combat focus character.
Or
10 levels straight in Cleric and be human for the extra feat. This way I get access to Breath of Life, a just in-case for when the s*%~ hits the fan.
Is there any PC that is a better option?
Anyway, hope this helps. Happy gaming.
It helps a lot! Thanks.
PS: I'm still curious as to what you meant by the ability score thing.
I'm going to try my best to explain this.
My group frowns on dropping any stat pass 8. The reason is part against min/maxing and part for RP reasons. This is especially so on stats like Intel and Ste. (Stats like Cha and Will have more leeway.)
The reasoning is that since an Ogre has about 6 Int, at 7 Int you are almost as dump as one. Also since 10 Int is what a normal NPC, aka the average person has, you an Adventurer shouldn't be be more stupid then them.
That said IF one of us is to RP a specific character, we can drop stats to 7. Say a Big Dump Barbarian (No offense to Barbarians.). A drop to 7 in Intel is ok, as long as you make some effort to RP the "stupid-ness" of your character.
The problem for Clerics, is that they are consider by group as a spell-casting, book reading, proper adventurer type character. In another words, they CANNOT be TOOoo stupid. Otherwise how do they even remember the gestures and words for their spells, even if are divine spells. 7 Int just seems weird to us.
Again if the character is say a "mad priest" archetype, then I suppose 7 Int is ok. But Otherwise for a average/normal Cleric, 7 Int is just too low...
You can easily run a healing Witch if you want, utilizing the Hedge Witch archetype, Healing Hex, Major Healing Hex (I'd skip this for level 10, personally, but it is a second Hex heal per day per person), and Scars Hex (VERY IMPORTANT due to the unlimited range on Hexes bonus it grants vs. the target, which means ranged healing).
Personally, I find Clerics to be boring. An Oracle is just as strong a healer (and will still have the same cap out on spell levels), particularly if you take the Life Mystery. The Paladin will just barely be walking into 3rd level spells, but the real meat of the Paladin is not healing. You'd be much better off with a Litany of Righteousness/Smite sort of thing and keeping a wand or two around. To really be a healing Paladin, you have to heavily invest in your Lay on Hands. Hospitaler is a good archetype for this (it divorces your Channel Energy uses from your Lay on Hands uses, meaning more uses per day all around), while the Divine Hunter gives the best ranged healing option for the Paladin that you'll ever see, though this treads on a number of other things you might not be so keen on.
Lastly, Bards and Inquisitors are great healers. Spontaneous casting is a wonderful thing for your spell slots and, as such, both have some tremendous advantages.
I get what you say about Clerics being boring as spell-casters. The party expects you to heal them and if you allow them to, they will make you feel like a heal bot. (That is why I became a summoner cleric in my current party. Scared Summons is SO POWERFUL for a Cleric.)
I'm reading up more on the Witch, but I think I'm set to play a Divine caster class for this 1 shot. I want to give Warpriest a try.
On Spontaneous casting, in my current game as a Cleric I can spontaneous cast healing spells which allows me to prepare my spells with quite a bit of flexibility. The access to my full spell-list has allowed me to pop in a spell via the "15 mins pray for spell" whenever my party needs a specific spell that the bard or the wizard did not learn.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that other then the Witch (cos of her Hexes) I feel other classes don't add up to provide healing as much as the Cleric. The Bard is a secondary healer and more of a skill monkey/knowledge and Buffer! The Oracle is always 1 level behind the Cleric and it shows when the party needs stuff other then healing, like restoration spells. And I'm not familiar with the other classes.
I going to look a lot more into the Witch. The class seems fun and if another 1 shot comes along, I will be sure to try her out.
Just a little extra info, I'm going as a healer cos I realize that most of my fellow players don't seem to like playing proper healing classes. To some of them healing means able to use a CLW. Which is fine for out of combat healing... but is lacking in-combat.
In-combat healing is generally pretty bad. I wrote an article once explaining the general concept behind this, and how it really doesn't work, even at low levels, and works less at high levels. The exception to this is the heal spell and its greater variations (such as mass heal, which heal great amounts of HP per burst (literally hundreds).
More often than not, you will want to avoid damage as much as possible. Avoidance is better than healing, essentially. Also, the DPR camp will happily tell you killing your foes is the best form of healing (removing the source of damage), but I won't go far into that at the moment. Suffice to say that if you are going to be healing in combat, it should only be during emergencies.
In all other cases, out of combat healing is preferable. A CL 1 wand of cure light wounds heals an average of 250 HP, and as party funds is very cheap (750/4= 187.5 for the equivalent of 2,500 gp worth of heaing potions).
For in-combat healing, I would recommend a few options.
[list]
In short, it's best to avoid combat healing if at all possible. Try to make sure your entire party is equipped with things like lesser cloaks of displacement to get 20% concealment (ignore 1/5 attacks) and prevents getting sneak attacked. Try to get some energy resistances (why I recommended the 5 resistance ring) to lesson or immunize yourself from certain attacks.
The List of feats is almost similar to what a caster cleric (I'm currently playing one) has. So the focus is to make you more of a versatile melee fighter. You can melee and while you are not as good a pure fighter or ranger you have a ton of spells to back you up.
What is your take on Prestige Classes? in place of Multi-classing?
I am thinking of going 8 levels of Cleric and 2 levels of Fighter for a more combat focus character.Or
10 levels straight in Cleric and be human for the extra feat. This way I get access to Breath of Life, a just in-case for when the s%*~ hits the fan.
Is there any PC that is a better option?
Pathfinder doesn't really have any prestige classes that jump out at me as being great for clerics. They have prestige classes for plenty of arcane stuff. The Holy Vindicator isn't a bad option.
I'm going to try my best to explain this.
My group frowns on dropping any stat pass 8. The reason is part against min/maxing and part for RP reasons. This is especially so on stats like Intel and Ste. (Stats like Cha and Will have more leeway.)
The reasoning is that since an Ogre has about 6 Int, at 7 Int you are almost as dump as one. Also since 10 Int is what a normal NPC, aka the average person has, you an Adventurer shouldn't be be more stupid then them.That said IF one of us is to RP a specific character, we can drop stats to 7. Say a Big Dump Barbarian (No offense to Barbarians.). A drop to 7 in Intel is ok, as long as you make some effort to RP the "stupid-ness" of your character.
The problem for Clerics, is that they are consider by group as a spell-casting, book reading, proper adventurer type character. In another words, they CANNOT be TOOoo stupid. Otherwise how do they even remember the gestures and words for their spells, even if are divine spells. 7 Int just seems weird to us.
Again if the character is say a "mad priest" archetype, then I suppose 7 Int is ok. But Otherwise for a average/normal Cleric, 7 Int is just too low...
Well, I don't really agree with this at all, but now that I know I won't bring it up again. For the record, the mental ability scores do not mean the same thing for everything. This is evident with races who have modifiers to their ability scores for entirely different reasons, and also evident by creatures in the Bestiary who share the same scores but have them represented in wildly different ways.
Using your Ogre as an example, compare it to Gargoyles, Bearded Devils, and even some angels acting as spiritual guides.
We can see they all have Int 6, but what it means depends entirely on the creature in question. Likewise, an Int 7 Human might have Int 7 due to memory problems (mild amnesia), lack of education ("You've never went outside of the monastery as a child?"), learning disability, ignorance, or any number of other things. I'm playing a Mummy in a Curse of the Crimson Throne game on Mondays that has a 3 Intelligence after being transformed (-4 Int due to mummy). This is being roleplayed as a vicious sense of amnesia and fragmented memories which make it difficult to answer questions, remember skills, and so forth, combined with not being exceptionally knowledgeable to begin with for growing up on the street as a beggar-child.
In short, mental ability scores are far "softer" in terms of how they are described than physical scores. The game would be very boring, and very lame, if literally every creature could be summed up purely by what number it had in an arbitrary number that grants a bonus or penalty. Instead, you have a bonus or penalty, and you get to decide what that represents. Even a 3 in a mental stat is only a -20% difference between an 11 in terms of how if affects your character.
I'll stop babbling about it now. It just seems very meta-gamist to me, and is something of a pet peeve. I hope my posts for you remain helpful. ^-^
I played an Oracle of Life a few months ago, and had a fine time keeping people alive during combat. Channeling, healing spells with no caps, and Holy Smites can go a long way. I even summoned a few times for some extra support.
Also, speaking of summons, many of them can be used for buffing and/or healing.
- Lantern Archons: These can cast aid at will, granting 1d8+3 temporary HP for 30 rounds, in addition to morale bonus.
- Lillend Azatas: These summoned monsters come pre-loaded with 7th level bard abilities (such as inspire courage), as well as CL 7 cure serious wounds 2/day (an average of 20.5 HP per casting), and CL 7 cure light wounds 5/day (an average of 9.5 HP per casting).
- Ghaele Azatas: Can cast aid and cure light wounds at will, heal 1/day, raise dead 1/day, restoration 1/day, cure serious wounds 3/day, lesser restoration 2/day, the should probably have cure moderate wounds instead of aid as a 2nd level spell because no Azata would be dumb enough to prepare Aid when they cast at-will as a spell-like ability at the same caster level, and shield of faith.
- Astral Devas: Remove disease at-will, cure light wounds 7/day, heal 1/day.
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Also, speaking of summons, many of them can be used for buffing and/or healing.
- Lantern Archons: These can cast aid at will, granting 1d8+3 temporary HP for 30 rounds, in addition to morale bonus.
- Lillend Azatas: These summoned monsters come pre-loaded with 7th level bard abilities (such as inspire courage), as well as CL 7 cure serious wounds 2/day (an average of 20.5 HP per casting), and CL 7 cure light wounds 5/day (an average of 9.5 HP per casting).
- Ghaele Azatas: Can cast aid and cure light wounds at will, heal 1/day, raise dead 1/day, restoration 1/day, cure serious wounds 3/day, lesser restoration 2/day, the should probably have cure moderate wounds instead of aid as a 2nd level spell because no Azata would be dumb enough to prepare Aid when they cast at-will as a spell-like ability at the same caster level, and shield of faith.
- Astral Devas: Remove disease at-will, cure light wounds 7/day, heal 1/day.
Wait a min... Lantern Archons are lv 3 summons, but Lillend Azatas and Ghaele Azatas? These 2 are not on the list... so how do I summon them? Am I missing something here?
On ability/stats distribution: Its just how my group sees it. They just don't want min/max abuse by dumping any one stat too much.
And your posts are VERY helpful! :)
The Lillend is on the 6th(available at 11th level for clerics) level table, while the Ghaele is on the 9th(available at 17th level for clerics) level list.