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Think you quoted while I was fixing SideKick I have six in my current post.
but i still argue that 6d8 is "better" for damage then at best 2d6 as your base. add in a +5 static damage and attack i still say 7 ,near, guaranteed hits with a possible damage out come of 8x42 damage for as many rounds as you can keep it up > 10 successes ( sohei would not get 10 successes often at all) at 2d6+5.
bane is a free action and adds +2d6 damage and +2attack, not just to favored enemies.Those spells and banes take time to set up. The ranger has a head start, and by the time the battle is over the ranger should come out ahead.
It seems everybody is ignoring 1 to 5. I did not even see it. :)
With that said I...i didnt ignore it i mis read it lol.
but i would say not to the ranger with bane at 5 an inquisitor takes the cake, and spells to boot.
Bane is a swift action, and I assumed since you mentioned spells those would be cast also, not that swift or free matters if no spells are bing cast.
The ranger comes in with a +4 to hit and attack. the 2d6 from bane averages out to a +7 damage. The ranger will also have more feats. I guess if the fight lasted long enough or there were multiple enemy types the inquisitor could catch up.
What it comes down to you need:
dice increase for each attack > damage from an extra attack
For you to be right.
So run the math and see where the break even point is.
For the Zen Archer this included strength bonus, deadly aim, weapon enhancement, point blank shot, and weapon specialization.
For the Sohei this includes all of the above and that +6 from weapon training.
All in all the Zen Archer doesn't have a chance at level 20 against the Sohei -- 11 total attacks with bigger bonuses to hit and damage will simply kill whatever the Zen Archer manages to pull out.
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What it comes down to you need:
dice increase for each attack > damage from an extra attack
For you to be right.So run the math and see where the break even point is.
For the Zen Archer this included strength bonus, deadly aim, weapon enhancement, point blank shot, and weapon specialization.
For the Sohei this includes all of the above and that +6 from weapon training.
All in all the Zen Archer doesn't have a chance at level 20 against the Sohei -- 11 total attacks with bigger bonuses to hit and damage will simply kill whatever the Zen Archer manages to pull out.
honestly i dont want to spend the time to do that, sorry. i will tell you i have done it in the past and the zen archer is the best archer i could build. i didnt know about the sohei at the time so you may be right but a zen archer destroyes EVERY other ranged character in damage for the duration of his ki pool lasting.
also
I believe that there is actually a considerable debate over whether gravity bow would work with a zen archer's "fists for damage" ability.
The main thing being that you use your unarmed damage dice. Not your unarmed damage as a ranged weapon.
I'm not sure how to better explain it, but I think most people agree that gravity bow won't actually work with Ki Strikes or whatever it is.
Enlarge Person and/or Lead Blades on the other hand...Those unambiguously work.
quote:
At 5th level, a zen archer may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to change the damage dice of arrows he shoots to that of his unarmed strikes. This lasts until the start of his next turn. For example, a Medium zen archer's short bow normally deals 1d6 damage using this ability, his arrows deal 1d8 damage until the start of his next turn. This ability replaces purity of body.as you see there you are mearly changing the "dice" not applying unarmed damage at a range. lol ive had this discussion AT LEAT 10 times before now. people hate that zen archers can do this and that it does stack with enlarged person.
mind you not trying to be a know-it-all i just love this archetype
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quote:
At 5th level, a zen archer may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to change the damage dice of arrows he shoots to that of his unarmed strikes. This lasts until the start of his next turn. For example, a Medium zen archer's short bow normally deals 1d6 damage using this ability, his arrows deal 1d8 damage until the start of his next turn. This ability replaces purity of body.as you see there you are mearly changing the "dice" not applying unarmed damage at a range. lol ive had this discussion AT LEAT 10 times before now. people hate that zen archers can do this and that it does stack with enlarged person.
mind you not trying to be a know-it-all i just love this archetype
You shoud really read more carefully when you're trying to tell smoeone they're wrong. He didn't say that enlarge person didn't work, he was saying gravity bow doesn't work. And he's right.
Gravity bow makes your bow do more damage. But you're replacing your bow's damage dice (and thus everything that modifies it) with your fist's damage dice and everything that modifies that. That is why he said to use lead blades instead of gravity bow.
actually if you read the spell gravity bow the spell is place on the arrow, it then says blah blah blah for and instant the density and weight of the ARROW is increased to be one size larger. so by RAW if a medium, yes medium, arrow does 4d8 it would be increased by one step in damage. i NEVER said cheapy was wrong but that RAW states it does work for both spells.
There are so many different ways to interpret the interactions of these spells that I don't know what to think. Before, in may, I thought EP and GB stacked. They now seem mutually exclusive.
Besides, I'd rather get an extra attack I think.
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actually if you read the spell gravity bow the spell is place on the arrow, it then says blah blah blah for and instant the density and weight of the ARROW is increased to be one size larger. so by RAW if a medium, yes medium, arrow does 4d8 it would be increased by one step in damage. i NEVER said cheapy was wrong but that RAW states it does work for both spells.Ok, great, you make 1d8 arrows do 2d6. You then spend the point of Ki to change your normal arrow damage for your unarmed combat damage.
actually after reading your post i see the confusion of logic over text, im trying to apply to much logic to my theory and we all know logic has no place in pathfinder. then i would use lead blades.
I think that in a low levels game (1-5) Zen archer may be the way top go for access to point blank master at 3rd. Full attack flurry even in melee combat is kind of big in low level games. Also in a compressed battle area inside a building, etc which are harder to manipulate through alternative movements etc at low levels also favor the monk as the levels increase though and flying, dimension door, etc become more viable it may be less so.