...I grab a Pearly White Spindle Ioun stone. A Cracked one, why not. 1700gp cost for me.
I Implant the stone in the back of my head.
"AM BARBARIAN" comes along, and attempts to Sunder the f*ck out of that shiny thing in the back of my head. He misses, and instead completely Decapitates me.
He sees my head roll to the ground, Laughs, loots my body for things to make better axes with, and leaves.
A few days later... There's a naked, fully regrown body of Me laying on the ground, just gaining consciousness?
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The stone just says it regenerates damage, not body parts.
The ioun stone "works like a ring of regeneration": the ring of regeneration "continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage..." Reducing you to -CON hp killed you, and the stone is powerless to help. However, if AM BARBARIAN was wielding a vorpal weapon to behead you, then - ironically - you might be fine, since the ring of regeneration also "regenerates" missing body parts as per the spell (taking 2d10 rounds). I guess it depends on whether the GM rules that your head is still 'alive' until you run out of oxygen and blood loss.
hmm...
Well, I suppose then the following does Not apply:
Regeneration (Ex)
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0
...That means there's no true definition here stating that you Cannot Die. But that probably does not apply here... No idea.
The Ring makes the caster immune to Bleed damage... so, no worries about Bleeding to death (strangely). I don't know if this carries to the Stone.
What if the wording can be read This way:
"This stone grants the wearer the ability to regenerate 1 point of damage per 10 minutes. Regeneration works like a ring of regeneration. It only cures damage taken while the character is using the stone."
What if this Only refers to the ring's restriction, which is that it Only heals health from damage that's been caused while wearing the ring?
The stone just says it regenerates damage, not body parts.
...This is questionable.
I'm looking up the Pearly White ioun stone via the SRD.
In its description, every single mention of "regenerate" or "regeneration" Links back to the excerpt for Regeneration (Ex), listed under the Universal Monster Rules page.
This is what Originally led me to believe it functions similar to Regeneration (Ex), But only for damage dealt while the Stone is in use.
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The stone just says it regenerates damage, not body parts....This is questionable.
I'm looking up the Pearly White ioun stone via the SRD.
In its description, every single mention of "regenerate" or "regeneration" Links back to the excerpt for Regeneration (Ex), listed under the Universal Monster Rules page.
This is what Originally led me to believe it functions similar to Regeneration (Ex), But only for damage dealt while the Stone is in use.
the srd make a lot of mistakes when it links things. like when describing the strength of a dwarven beer it'll link the work Strength to the stat page, when thats not what is being talked about in this context
In the D20PFSRD, that is a common error. In almost all cases of the word Heal, for example, it is linked to the Heal spell. I would not go by what is linked where on that site for rules citations.
Yeah, the CRB refers you to the ring, which carries its own description that is actually more like Fast Healing... except that you can regrow body parts.
the srd make a lot of mistakes when it links things. like when describing the strength of a dwarven beer it'll link the work Strength to the stat page, when thats not what is being talked about in this context
Alright, Will do, and lesson learned.
Can we get a Final Verdict on this anyways? ^_^ As detailed as possible...
Is little ol' me gonna regenerate a whole body, after AM BARBARIAN comes along with his sunder-lust?
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In the D20PFSRD, that is a common error. In almost all cases of the word Heal, for example, it is linked to the Heal spell. I would not go by what is linked where on that site for rules citations.Yeah, the CRB refers you to the ring, which carries its own description that is actually more like Fast Healing... except that you can regrow body parts.the srd make a lot of mistakes when it links things. like when describing the strength of a dwarven beer it'll link the work Strength to the stat page, when thats not what is being talked about in this contextAlright, Will do, and lesson learned.
Can we get a Final Verdict on this anyways? ^_^ As detailed as possible...
Is little ol' me gonna regenerate a whole body, after AM BARBARIAN comes along with his sunder-lust?
you do realize SKR up there is a developer. right? thats as official of an answer as you get
you do realize SKR up there is a developer. right? thats as official of an answer as you get
-_-
Is it going to prevent Bleeding?
Is it going to restore an equal amount in nonlethal damage?
Is this regeneration basically on par with Fast Healing, with 10 minute long and/or hour long intervals?
...Just pretend I was asking for Details, and let me keep my dignity; No, I didn't actually notice Sean at a glance. New to the community.
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you do realize SKR up there is a developer. right? thats as official of an answer as you get-_-
Is it going to prevent Bleeding?
Is it going to restore an equal amount in nonlethal damage?
Is this regeneration basically on par with Fast Healing, with 10 minute long and/or hour long intervals?...Just pretend I was asking for Details, and let me keep my dignity; No, I didn't actually notice Sean at a glance. New to the community.
once you heal a point, it'll stop bleeding
yesyup
once you heal a point, it'll stop bleeding
yes
yup
Thank you. ^_^
Though I do have one more question: Why is it worded as Regenerate, and not Heal, like virtually any other item or spell that recovers health?
The stone just says it regenerates damage, not body parts.
Two question concerning that:
1. The table states that ring heals 1 point of damage per 10 minutes while the text states that it works like ring regeneration which would also involve regenerating missing body parts and immunity to bleeding. Usually it is the text that has precedence over tables. Is it exception to this?
2. Ioun stone heals 1 point of damage while PF ring of regeneration heals 1 point of damage per round. In 3.5 both ring of regeneration and ioun stone healed 1 point of damage per hour (which honestly made them less than glamorous for their price). I understand that changed healing rate was deliberate, but was making those items having different rate between each other made on purpose?
Also, small suggestion - with next printing/errate could you consider replacing term regenerate 1 point of damage per 10 minutes with term heal 1 point of damage per 10 minutes in ioun stone table like it was written in ring of regeneration description? It would avoid confusion with regeneration special quality.
1. The table states that ring heals 1 point of damage per 10 minutes while the text states that it works like ring regeneration which would also involve regenerating missing body parts and immunity to bleeding. Usually it is the text that has precedence over tables. Is it exception to this?
Meh, just looked at the table text and skipped the description underneath. Sadly, the stone works like the ring, and the ring regrows body parts, so the stone regrows body parts.
2. Ioun stone heals 1 point of damage while PF ring of regeneration heals 1 point of damage per round. In 3.5 both ring of regeneration and ioun stone healed 1 point of damage per hour (which honestly made them less than glamorous for their price). I understand that changed healing rate was deliberate, but was making those items having different rate between each other made on purpose?
That's a Jason question, I don't know why he did that or if there was an important reason for it.
Alright. Thus it Does regrow body parts, However, unlike the special quality, it does Not keep the creature from dying.
To address the first example: So, what you'd have is a head that takes Slightly longer to actually fully go brain dead, since the stone Attempts to regenerate the rest of the body, and if I'm not mistaken, would not Bleed. Anything from Fast Healing to Regeneration blocks bleeding; This stone would be the special exception if it doesn't...
...Quite the way to die. ^_^;;
Might be useful to prevent bleeding, though. Probably not the case.
"AM BARBARIAN" comes along, and attempts to Sunder the f*ck out of that shiny thing in the back of my head. He misses, and instead completely Decapitates me.
The bigger question: How the heck did AM miss? Dude has over a +70 to sunder. Natural 1?
1. The table states that ring heals 1 point of damage per 10 minutes while the text states that it works like ring regeneration which would also involve regenerating missing body parts and immunity to bleeding. Usually it is the text that has precedence over tables. Is it exception to this?Meh, just looked at the table text and skipped the description underneath. Sadly, the stone works like the ring, and the ring regrows body parts, so the stone regrows body parts.
2. Ioun stone heals 1 point of damage while PF ring of regeneration heals 1 point of damage per round. In 3.5 both ring of regeneration and ioun stone healed 1 point of damage per hour (which honestly made them less than glamorous for their price). I understand that changed healing rate was deliberate, but was making those items having different rate between each other made on purpose?That's a Jason question, I don't know why he did that or if there was an important reason for it.
One answer possibly explaining the difference (and also why would ioun stone only heal damage and not provide regeneration/immunity to bleeding) would be that it was done deliberately due to great cost difference between those items (mere 20 thousands for stone - which does not occupy slot as extra bonus, versus 90 thousands for ring) but it is only a guess on my part that occured to me while I was finishing my previous post.
"AM BARBARIAN" comes along, and attempts to Sunder the f*ck out of that shiny thing in the back of my head. He misses, and instead completely Decapitates me.The bigger question: How the heck did AM miss? Dude has over a +70 to sunder. Natural 1?
...I said "Miss" because I didn't feel like saying "Actually only slices off my head, since an Implanted Ioun Stone can't be sundered or targeted by effects"... XD
...I said "Miss" because I didn't feel like saying "Actually only slices off my head, since an Implanted Ioun Stone can't be sundered or targeted by effects"... XD"AM BARBARIAN" comes along, and attempts to Sunder the f*ck out of that shiny thing in the back of my head. He misses, and instead completely Decapitates me.The bigger question: How the heck did AM miss? Dude has over a +70 to sunder. Natural 1?
Okay. That makes much more sense.
How are you getting the stone for 1/10th the price, and where are the rules that allow you to implant it inside your head?
Again, I'm looking at the SRD.
I forgot in which book or where Implanting ioun stones was mentioned, but it made it into the SRD, so I'm assuming it's official from Somewhere. It takes quite a few checks, a few days of fasting, and someone with a decent Heal skill to actually implant it.
As for the price? Simple; I'm attempting to create a Cracked one. Market price is 3,400 gp for a Pearly White Spindle that's cracked. It only provides a sixth of the bonuses though. Still useful for regrowing a limb!
How are you getting the stone for 1/10th the price, and where are the rules that allow you to implant it inside your head?
Its the flawed version and the pathfinder guide has the implant rules.
Even on a natural 1, AM BARBARIAN kills the living $#!+ out of castys.
..You know, I kinda wondered... What if AM BARBARIAN stuck my head on a spear, as a warning to other castys? Had my original presumption been correct, and I Regenerated my entire body... Would I officially regrow with a spear stuck up my a**? Would I be in a constant state of agonizing near-death stuck on a spear?
Anyways. An Actual question:
What is the Rate at which a Ring of Regeneration can regrow a limb? Would it be the typical 2d10 rounds?
If so, it's Actually Possible to regrow a limb or torso, Before you suffocate by the RAW's constitution based standards, no?
Would this rate in turn transfer to the Ioun stone?
EDIT: The above questions are assuming that AM BARBARIAN hasn't decided to play a game of 'Castys Butcher' (or worse, 'Doctor') with my regrowing corpse.
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BARBARIAN HIGHLY DISTURBED BY THE CURRENT CONVERSATION.
CLEARLY, BARBARIAN TAKE SHINY LOOT OUT OF HEAD ONCE BARBARIAN AM DONE WITH SMASH. ELSE, AM SUNDER CASTY ONE MORE TIME, THEN SHOVE IN SPARE HAVERSACK AND THROW OFF BRIDGE TO TEST OF STARSTONE INTO INFINITY PIT WHILE NOBODY WATCHING.
2. Ioun stone heals 1 point of damage while PF ring of regeneration heals 1 point of damage per round. In 3.5 both ring of regeneration and ioun stone healed 1 point of damage per hour (which honestly made them less than glamorous for their price). I understand that changed healing rate was deliberate, but was making those items having different rate between each other made on purpose?
Since the prices are radically different, I don't think it's a big stretch to have the rates be different.
Since the prices are radically different, I don't think it's a big stretch to have the rates be different.
Unfortunately, there is Nothing to suggest such a proportionate rate. The Ring of Regeneration simply does it "as per the spell". If the Ioun stone acts as a Ring of Regeneration, then it too would regrow limbs "as per the spell".
The spell has a fixed rate of 2d10. (or One round if the limbs are present and being touched, to be reattached)
Since the prices are radically different, I don't think it's a big stretch to have the rates be different.Unfortunately, there is Nothing to suggest such a proportionate rate. The Ring of Regeneration simply does it "as per the spell". If the Ioun stone acts as a Ring of Regeneration, then it too would regrow limbs "as per the spell".
The spell has a fixed rate of 2d10. (or One round if the limbs are present and being touched, to be reattached)
I'm talking about the healing rate, not the limb-growing rate. The ability to regrow limbs is worth jack squat. :-)
I'm talking about the healing rate, not the limb-growing rate. The ability to regrow limbs is worth jack squat. :-)
Having the ability to Regrow a limb, and Immunity to bleeding, not to mention an aide for long-term healing, for the low low price of 1700gp, and an implanting...
...I truly and utterly beg to differ.
How are you getting the stone for 1/10th the price, and where are the rules that allow you to implant it inside your head?Again, I'm looking at the SRD.
I forgot in which book or where Implanting ioun stones was mentioned, but it made it into the SRD, so I'm assuming it's official from Somewhere.
I take it you mean www.d20pfsrd.com when you refer to "the SRD", which is not an official site. That site aggregates rules from the Pathfinder RPG rulebooks and additions from various Pathfinder Campaign Setting and Pathfinder Player Guide books and other Paizo source books, but also third party stuff and even homebrew stuff here and there. If you want official, use the PRD, which is published by Paizo themselves. And, there is no such thing as an "SRD" for the Pathfinder RPG, it is called PRD, so it is not confused with the original SRD which belongs to Wizards od the Coast.
I take it you mean www.d20pfsrd.com when you refer to "the SRD", which is not an official site. That site aggregates rules from the Pathfinder RPG rulebooks and additions from various Pathfinder Campaign Setting and Pathfinder Player Guide books and other Paizo source books, but also third party stuff and even homebrew stuff here and there. If you want official, use the PRD, which is published by Paizo themselves. And, there is no such thing as an "SRD" for the Pathfinder RPG, it is called PRD, so it is not confused with the original SRD which belongs to Wizards of the Coast.
I'll be honest, I use the former Only because I find the layout more appealing. Usually, when it comes to a controversial subject I switch to the "official"... But such wasn't the case this time. ^_^ Typically, they're identical, both in navigation and content...
...And in this case, it seems identical Anyways.
If you're referring tot he whole blunder with the d20pfsrd links to Regeneration (EX), that was already apologized for. ^_^
The wording for the Pearly White ioun stone remains consistent, and poses the same confusion.
The only things lacking are the Implanting of Ioun stones, and the Flawed & Cracked versions... It was mentioned above that the pathfinder guide has that ( I believe Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society? ), and I find that reason enough to use a site like d20pfsrd (especially for some Fast-play format, offered for skills and such. ^_^ ) for General use.
I didn't know ioun stones COULD be implanted. If one of my players tried to do that I would either:
1 say it caused immediate death
2 reduce their CON by 5, and INT by 10
3 cause some form of insanity
or 4) have some other horrible irreversible punishment for trying to add more stats to their character.
edit: googled it, seems it's entirely possible, I don't really like ioun stones in the first place, so I've never felt the need to drop one in the world
edit: googled it, seems it's entirely possible, I don't really like ioun stones in the first place, so I've never felt the need to drop one in the world
You should see the Ioun Angel 3rd party prestige class... Bit overpowered, much?
Able to craft ioun stones the moment the class is taken
2nd level = stones crafted at a quarter price, instead of half
10th level = able to use a 25gp dull grey stone as a material cost for Any spell - including wish.
Can't believe someone conceived that thing. XD
Anyways. all gestures aside. Yes, by a Paizo published guide, you can Implant an ioun stone within your flesh for full effects, and freedom from any sunder or effects that would otherwise target it.
If there are official rules allowing the implanting of Ion Stones, they just became a whole lot more attractive.
Seeker of Secrets
If there are official rules allowing the implanting of Ion Stones, they just became a whole lot more attractive.
There are indeed such rules in Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society, but they are not part of the Pathfinder RPG rules, although they for the Pathfinder RPG and are are part of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting and may or may not apply to other settings, at their GMs' discretion.
The Ioun Angel class indeed looks dubious, and one of the problem I see with the d20pfsrd.com site is that they list these kind of things alongside the general Pathfinder RPG and the more specific Pathfinder Campaign Setting rules. Yes, I know, they do say on their site that it's third party stuff, but, believe me, players tend to overlook that, and this leads to entitlement issues. ("It says this right here in the SRD! Why am I not allowed to take this for my character?") As a GM, I don't actually have that kind of issues with my players, but still I discourage the use of the site and recommend the use of Paizo's PRD only for them.
3P Class guides are marketed to players so the temptation to throw aside balance for wish fulfillment is pretty compelling. When someone designs a class, you can always tell how much of their time was spent on either side of the GM screen.
edit: googled it, seems it's entirely possible, I don't really like ioun stones in the first place, so I've never felt the need to drop one in the worldYou should see the Ioun Angel 3rd party prestige class... Bit overpowered, much?
Able to craft ioun stones the moment the class is taken
2nd level = stones crafted at a quarter price, instead of half
10th level = able to use a 25gp dull grey stone as a material cost for Any spell - including wish.Can't believe someone conceived that thing. XD
Meh, the idea of the class wasn't bad -- the last power was.
Meh, the idea of the class wasn't bad -- the last power was.
Completely agree, which is why I plan only to take the first 2-3 levels of it, if a GM allows. Makes good money, and allows anyone with a large enough funding to permanently enhance themselves for a lot cheaper. So I plan to take it in my final levels, if my character Ever gets there.
But back to the main topic:
Cracked Pearl White Ioun Stones are legal.
Implanting is Legal.
Is 1700gp and a few skill checks all I need, to have a Constant Limb-regrowing Regeneration effect As per the Ring of Regeneration ( regrows as per the spell, which is 2d10 rounds if completely severed, or 1 round if limb is held touching ) As well as the Immunity from Bleeding effects?
What do you mean by legal?
What do you mean by legal?
I mean Paizo published the book that suggests and allows them. Therefore, I'd say that's the equivalent to being the RAW to abide by. Until there are corrections, or erratas declared, I'm perfectly justified in sticking a floating crystal into my head and calling it Mine, My Own, My Unsunderable.
...Shortly put; It's okay to do unless the GM says it's not. XD
As well as the Immunity from Bleeding effects?
I do not believe that you obtain immunity to bleed damage, or at least not fast enough to stop you from bleeding out.
You gain a hit point once hour with a cracked Ioun Stone, so you obtain magical healing after 600 combat turns of taking damage.
Even without any skill points in Heal, you would be better off taking twenty to stop the bleeding.
I do not believe that you obtain immunity to bleed damage, or at least not fast enough to stop you from bleeding out.You gain a hit point once hour with a cracked Ioun Stone, so you obtain magical healing after 600 combat turns of taking damage.
Even without any skill points in Heal, you would be better off taking twenty to stop the bleeding.
By Logic, Yes. ^_^
But I desired a final verdict on such. Almost every single other case out there deals with either an Instantaneous healing ending bleed damage, or a Sustained once-per-round fast healing / regeneration / other effect, effectively ending all bleed damage (And the latter being about the equivalent to immunity)
By RAW, I can't seem to find much on such a Prolonged health over time's effect on bleeding, and the Ring of Regeneration specifically states immunity. If the Ioun Stone is going to recover a limb at the same rate as the Ring, by RAW, then *Perhaps* it also gives the immunity to bleeding.
Naturally not going to push it too far with Any GM. XD But, so long as I'm here... It's nice to have a verdict.
It would also be nice to have a verdict on the Speed at which an ioun stone recovers a limb. Because, realistically, it *Should* be between 1200-6000 rounds (2-10 hours), if it's proportionate to the health/time, and would outright disallow reattaching, due to the limb withering away too soon, unless the character managed to catch the limb the Milisecond it was severed, and hold it in place. However, the Ring does it as per a spell, with a Set rate. So too, then, should the Ioun stone?