Under RAW, a Vampire must be evil. I'm not disputing that. However, what if I wanted a Lawful Good Vampire, and my GM and I are willing to let the violation of the RAW slide? Why is this? I want to play a Vampire Paladin.
Now, first off, this means no use of the Create Spawn ability. I can accept that. Secondly, the whole feeding thing. I can get around that by only feeding from evil people or willing people, and not killing them (there is nothing in the Bestiary saying a Vampire must continue feeding until the person dies). Thirdly, I realize I need to be very careful about when I use Dominate.
However, this brings up an issue. Positive energy. It harms undead. However, I CHANNEL it, despite being undead. How do I deal with that? Am I immune to my own positive energy? What about the party Cleric's? If one of us tries to flash fry some undead, am I screwed, or can I or the Cleric choose not to have me affected?
I'm not disputing that. However, what if I wanted a Lawful Good Vampire, and am willing to let the violation of the RAW slide? Why is this? I want to play a Vampire Paladin.
Now, first off, this means no use of the Create Spawn ability. I can accept that. Secondly, the whole feeding thing. I can get around that by only feeding from evil people or willing people, and not killing them (there is nothing in the Bestiary saying a Vampire must continue feeding until the person dies). Thirdly, I realize I need to be very careful about when I use Dominate.
However, this brings up an issue. Positive energy. It harms undead. However, I CHANNEL it, despite being undead. How do I deal with that? Am I immune to my own positive energy? What about the party Cleric's? If one of us tries to flash fry some undead, am I screwed, or can I or the Cleric choose not to have me affected?
You choose if your affected by your own however you cleric buddy needs selective channeling.
You choose if your affected by your own however you cleric buddy needs selective channeling.I'm not disputing that. However, what if I wanted a Lawful Good Vampire, and am willing to let the violation of the RAW slide? Why is this? I want to play a Vampire Paladin.
Now, first off, this means no use of the Create Spawn ability. I can accept that. Secondly, the whole feeding thing. I can get around that by only feeding from evil people or willing people, and not killing them (there is nothing in the Bestiary saying a Vampire must continue feeding until the person dies). Thirdly, I realize I need to be very careful about when I use Dominate.
However, this brings up an issue. Positive energy. It harms undead. However, I CHANNEL it, despite being undead. How do I deal with that? Am I immune to my own positive energy? What about the party Cleric's? If one of us tries to flash fry some undead, am I screwed, or can I or the Cleric choose not to have me affected?
Thanks.
Do I still need negative energy to heal, or does being a Paladin mean I can do it with positive energy? If so, does that mean negative energy will harm me? I'm willing to play a good aligned character that needs negative energy to heal, but I want to be absolutely sure that that is indeed the rule.
Undead is undead. It doesn't matter what your alignment or class is, you still need negative energy to heal, and positive energy from any source will harm you.
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You choose if your affected by your own however you cleric buddy needs selective channeling.Do I still need negative energy to heal, or does being a Paladin mean I can do it with positive energy?
Negative energy heals undead and harms living, regardless of alignment, and positive energy heals the living and harms undead, regardless of alignment, so your vampire, regardless of class or alignment, would need negative energy to heal himself, and be harmed by the positive energy channeling of others.
Talonhawke is correct that you can choose to channel energy without affecting yourself, so an undead cleric or paladin can channel positive energy without harming himself.
You choose if your affected by your own however you cleric buddy needs selective channeling.Do I still need negative energy to heal, or does being a Paladin mean I can do it with positive energy?Negative energy heals undead and harms living, regardless of alignment, and positive energy heals the living and harms undead, regardless of alignment, so your vampire, regardless of class or alignment, would need negative energy to heal himself, and be harmed by the positive energy channeling of others.
Talonhawke is correct that you can choose to channel energy without affecting yourself, so an undead cleric or paladin can channel positive energy without harming himself.
but vamps have fast healing anyway right?
so the healing should be that big of a problem
Though you might talk to your DM about a feat that would allow you to reverse that fact as long as you didn't fall. Something like
Pure Soul [Monstrous]
Preq Divine Grace Class feature Undead type
As long as you remain faithful to your vows as a Paladin you are treated as living for the purposes of how you are affected by negative and positive energy.
The DM may require you to be a higher level or even say no but it never hurts to ask.
Also dont forget on feeding that the DM may also allow you to feed from animals.
Don't forget that being a vampire is hardly compatible with a PC career.
You can't stand garlic odor, you recoil in front of mirrors and holy symbols (as a LG paladin, I suppose your DM can suppress the latter). You can't enter a home if you are not invited (this one may be really problematic).
No adventure by day, no underwater adventure and you must always keep your coffin close enough to reach it if you are slain, but not too close to avoid your opponents to take it or destroy it.
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No adventure by day, no underwater adventure and you must always keep your coffin close enough to reach it if you are slain, but not too close to avoid your opponents to take it or destroy it.
I came up with a solution for the sunlight thing.
Cover all of your skin. Use something that doesn't allow light through, like leather, or heavy cloth.
If your GM will allow them, pick up Sundark Goggles for 10g (theyre sunglasses, for kobolds and other light sensitive races) I believe theyre in races of the dragon. Mundane item. Most GM's I've met are willing to allow mundane gear from 3.5 sources.
If Not: You need a robe of eyes, and then you will cover your eyes as well.
You can pick up a hat of disguise if you dont wanna look like a ninja.
One thing you may have noticed, is the vampire template has no food source restrictions. you can drink from monsters, and animals just fine, and I believe you can drink from corpses as well. So you can eat the orcs after battle, or go to a farmer and buy some goats.
The mechanics for the vampire template are not very good for players, and I think they make fairly crappy vampire mechanics in general.
I have a template over on ENWorld thats a little better for player characters, and more customizeable. IIRC The level progression is little bit on the powerful side if you take all 10 levels (attribute bonuses), but so long as you dont take more than 4-6 levels in vampire it should be alright. Even with all 10, I dont think it would put you ahead of a synthesist in melee. I've been meaning to update that and reformat it. I think I could do it better now than I could 2 years ago.
A couple notes:
1. BMB comes from Trailblazer. It allows you to consolidate caster levels for multiclass characters. You can ignore it entirely in a regular PF Game.
2. Level Drain: We were new to PFRPG when I made this, and I were using some pretty old school permanent negative levels. It won't break anything to give the vampire template its immunity to negative levels and energy drain for being undead.
~DH
I'll look into updating it tonight (like, I'll look into it 12-15 hours from now). But in the mean-time, feel free to peruse the version thats right there. :)
You will be able to use channeling to heal your party, but when you use it to harm undead, you'll need Selective Channeling to avoid blasting yourself.
You can choose to leave yourself out of your own channels.
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The mechanics for the vampire template are not very good for players,.....They're not really supposed to be.
Yep. But that doesn't stop players from wanting to make vampire characters, regardless of if its well supported in the game.
Besides. It's an acquired template.
It's quite possible that a character could be turned into a vampire without the player trying to engineer it to happen. As a player, I'd be peeved if that suddenly made me into an NPC.
But then I'm someone who thinks you should also keep control of your character as a wight.
Anyways, my alternate template and class allow for a player to play as a vampire, and acquire abilities gradually.
Though as mentioned, it needs an update, and I'll look into doing it ASAP.
However, this brings up an issue. Positive energy. It harms undead. However, I CHANNEL it, despite being undead. How do I deal with that? Am I immune to my own positive energy? What about the party Cleric's? If one of us tries to flash fry some undead, am I screwed, or can I or the Cleric choose not to have me affected?
I imagine it would hurt like hell.
...though, admittedly. I'm having a hard time not saying "Twilight," here. As much fun as "damned" concepts can be.
*twitch*
Twilight.
*twitchtwitchtwitchtwitch*
ESPLODES.
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So is this your concept?
Or is this closer to what you were thinking?
Or maybe this one?
There are a couple of others, I can see why you would want to play one. As a Gm I can also see why I would say, "um no."
As far as RAW goes I think that the drawback, and more importantly the interesting part of the way the rules work is that you would hurt yourself every single time you use one of those abilities.
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I've done this and used my WOD books. It wasn't a player but several NPCs. Worked out well adding the fluff and changing few things.
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Yes, but that's a choice to keep the character as it is as opposed to getting the condition cured or going out in a noble sacrfice.
A choice I believe you should always have, and should not be punished for.
There is no reason that the choice should be optimal, or EVEN ON PAR with playing a normal character race.
I would say there is EVERY reason that such a character should be on par with playing a normal character.
To me that argument is like saying archetypes should always be crappier than the base class, because you had the audacity to want to play a different concept.
I strongly object to that notion.
I will say that I would strongly encourage my player not to play a vampire paladin for the same reasons I discourage Drizzt clones.
I discourage melodramatic emo character concepts.
I think its cool to play a vampire like:
This
Or this
Or this
Or This.
A good guy vampire shouldnt be a paladin, he should be /Dexter/. He still butchers people. He just focuses it at the bad guys. That sort of character is alot more fun. At the nicest end, the vampire should be aggressive, arrogant (or cocky) and reckless. There should be lots of collateral damage, maybe even sometimes including people. At the other end, he should be cold. logical. calculating. unforgiving. If he's not evil, he should be brutal against those who slight him. Vengeance is key, but it can be long term. Afterall, you have time.
But then; in V:tM I don't play Camarilla, I play Independents. Gangrel, Ravnos, or even better: Old-Clan Tzimisce. Back to classics.
If you want to play Angel, you have to bear the penalties. That means you can smite evil, but you are affected by sunlight and, I would argue, positive energy. That probably means you can heal other people, but not yourself. Which is, after all, a very LG thing.
If you want to play Angel, you have to bear the penalties. That means you can smite evil, but you are affected by sunlight and, I would argue, positive energy. That probably means you can heal other people, but not yourself. Which is, after all, a very LG thing.
I'm willing to accept that. I just wanted to make absolutely sure that this is, in fact, the rule.
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If you want to play Angel, you have to bear the penalties. That means you can smite evil, but you are affected by sunlight and, I would argue, positive energy. That probably means you can heal other people, but not yourself. Which is, after all, a very LG thing.I'm willing to accept that. I just wanted to make absolutely sure that this is, in fact, the rule.
That is the rule.
WoD, and other areas and authors, aren't a bad source. If you're going to bend the rules, sitting down with the DM and working out just what vampire society is, what's expected (or was expected), and so on can give you plenty to play off of. This is especially true if you're playing for the "struggle of it all." Part of this is understand what you're struggling against, because it will define you.
Darkness, damnation, the innate want to destroy other living souls are your bread and butter. It's not to say you couldn't add a little local flavor, though. Is there a particular creation story of the race? Are they a race, at all? A byproduct? Slaves? The latter doesn't typically fit into the mythos, though it could be an interesting spin.
Who your character follows, if anyone at all, will come into play. Why would the deity have Called or accepted such a character? Their own designs will play into your struggle. If you play with the idea that each deity will flavor their paladins slightly differently than one another, that also adds to your tapestry.
Of course, all of this keeps with the assumption that other vampires in the campaign are evil-natured. Though if they're not, what are they?
If your DM is allowing you this flexibility, you might try reflavoring the paladin class somewhat--more in the nature of an archetype for what you're doing. Perhaps some (more subtle) deity is Calling a number of you as paladins as part of a greater campaign. The cleric Death domain might provide some inspiration. ...perhaps you gain the ability to 'store' and 'reflect' negative energy. Or to 'twist' negative energy into positive for your allies.
...perhaps a vampire truly fighting for her humanity, where each level of the archetype begins to 'fade' the old vampire powers, and transform them into something else, a different creature entirely. Played well, it could be a source of Ascension.
Why is this? I want to play a Vampire Paladin.
I'm wondering - if you WANT to be a good guy, shouldn't you be looking for ways to stop being a vampire? By being one, you are subject to a thirst that endangers everyone around you. Yes, you can ameliorate it or find ways to sate it - and when things go well, those ways work - but it's always a possibility that things don't work out and the MO of your existance harms others.
Vampirism is at least partly symbolic - you gain strength by taking the blood (life) of other people; use their lives for your own sake. That doesn't work for a good character, imo. Neutral I can imagine - but good?
Now, mechanically, I'd look for an archetype that trades away the positive energy aspects of channeling or LoH and substitutes other abilities for them. There are options for channeling that halves the healing/harm for other effects, maybe you could increase them by removing the positive/negative energy options altogether. Or maybe you could be a cavalier instead of a paladin.
The lack of invitations and such still makes vampire an incredibly optimal PC. In general they are designed as an insanely good defense within their own territory, and almost entirely dependent on massive cunning and taking advantage of peoples trust outside of their territory.
Party gets to dungeon, the 3 humans walk in, the vampire... Can you go talk to the BBEG and ask him if I can come in? (Note the minions at the door most likely would not be considered "someone with appropriate authority", and that's just assuming a villain that isn't preparing for you, one who is prepared would build a moat. Followed by a funhouse mirror maze laced with garlic.
The lack of invitations and such still makes vampire an incredibly optimal PC. In general they are designed as an insanely good defense within their own territory, and almost entirely dependent on massive cunning and taking advantage of peoples trust outside of their territory.
Party gets to dungeon, the 3 humans walk in, the vampire... Can you go talk to the BBEG and ask him if I can come in? (Note the minions at the door most likely would not be considered "someone with appropriate authority", and that's just assuming a villain that isn't preparing for you, one who is prepared would build a moat.
One key thing to note in the channel energy rules.
when you channel, you choose to affect either undead or living creatures. You cannot affect both at the same time. So you can channel to heal your living allies all the time with no negatives.
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A good guy vampire shouldnt be a paladin, he should be /Dexter/. He still butchers people. He just focuses it at the bad guys. That sort of character is alot more fun. At the nicest end, the vampire should be aggressive, arrogant (or cocky) and reckless. There should be lots of collateral damage, maybe even sometimes including people. At the other end, he should be cold. logical. calculating. unforgiving. If he's not evil, he should be brutal against those who slight him. Vengeance is key, but it can be long term. Afterall, you have time.But then; in V:tM I don't play Camarilla, I play Independents. Gangrel, Ravnos, or even better: Old-Clan Tzimisce. Back to classics.
Dexter is an Anti-hero he is not a good guy. Lawful evil.
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Dexter is an Anti-hero he is not a good guy. Lawful evil.
I'd say Lawful Neutral, with some seriously unhealthy urges, and very firm discipline to keep it in check. He tried real damn hard to be a good guy, which I think makes him not evil. But he isn't capable of being a good guy, regardless of how hard he tries. Hence neutral.
My point is that while I can see a nonevil vampire, I have a hard time seeing a "good" vampire.
Angel is kindof cheesy, the twilight novels are terrible - and angel is much better than Twilight.
I'd say being more of a good guy than spike (later seasons and the comic series that followed) is cheesy. He tries to be a good guy, but doesnt do the best job doing "good" things. He just remembers which side he's on, and he's defined it in pretty clear black and white.
In the comics he ends up having his soul forcefully removed by magic (by the bad guy), and the bad guy seems to think that itll make spike into a murderer again. Spike still kills the bad guy. He's got all kinds of evil urges, can only see right and wrong from an abstract point of view (lost the ability to feel whats right or wrong) but he picked a side, and he knows what side he's on. (of course he gets it back, but thats not the point).
The point is you can be pretty brutal, and be on the good guys team.
Think of the Avengers. Now look at wolverine. He does some seriously sketchy moral things, but he's always on the side of the good guys.
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Now, when I'm playing a vampire, I play them dark. I straddle the line between lawful neutral and lawful evil, and play someone who is cold and calculating, and never forgets or forgives any slight, paying them back tenfold, but has a sort of code of honor, and goes to extreme measures when necessary to avoid hurting people who haven't done anything to deserve it. But a long drawn out torture scene to acquire information? I'll play it out in detail.
Someone sends spies/assassins to break into my haven? the spies are tortured to find where they came from, and dismembered and sent back to whoever sent them, with a note to the sob that no prince will be able to protect them, and they will never be safe. Then I let them stew in it for a while, and capture them and rip them to pieces a year later, once they've started to relax.
If I don't have the political power to do that openly, then their assassins just disappear, and I arrange to kill them.
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That's how *I* like to play vampires. But I think playing them more like wolverine or dexter is totally legit.
Instead of trying to modify the vampire race to fit into a PC, just play a Dhampir from the bestiary 2. The Dhampir is the closest thing to a vampire that is a legitimate PC playable race.. I've played a Dhampir type paladin before myself.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/dhampir
Instead of trying to modify the vampire race to fit into a PC, just play a Dhampir from the bestiary 2. The Dhampir is the closest thing to a vampire that is a legitimate PC playable race.. I've played a Dhampir type paladin before myself.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/dhampir
Url tags help if you want to link to something. Dhampir
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Instead of trying to modify the vampire race to fit into a PC, just play a Dhampir from the bestiary 2. The Dhampir is the closest thing to a vampire that is a legitimate PC playable race.. I've played a Dhampir type paladin before myself.
Thats one possibility. I never found that satisfying.
Personally I'd rather play a vampire than a half-vampire.
I played a Katane back in 3.5 though. and I think I liked them better than the Dhampir.
I played a Katane back in 3.5 though. and I think I liked them better than the Dhampir.
Weren't they pretty much the same concept-wise?
Don't forget the Versatile Channeler feat from UM. Sure you'd be -4 effective Cleric level for the channel iirc, but it's better than nothing. Alternately, Talk to your GM about a Versatile Hands type of feat, similar to VC but works with lay on hands specifically.