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My personal opinion is that the Dervish Dancer archetype is better suited to NPCs than player characters. This is doubly true for PFS. I think bardic "music" is one of the things which is expected from a bard when players put a group together and this could cause issues outside of a home group.
I would look at Oracle of Battle instead of fighter levels. That would give you weapon focus when you take your first oracle level. It also improves your scroll/wand access to divine spells. I'm not a fan of dumping Wisdom to 7 or of the Dodge feat unless it is a prerequisite. [You have spring attack, but not mobility, which is a prerequisite, unless I have overlooked something]. If you need the Extra Performance feat, you will need it long before 11th level.
I think you need to decide whether you want to be a melee type or a caster. Your Charisma is too low if you plan to cast many offensive spells (which is aggravated by the Bard spell levels versus sorcerer/wizard spell levels - not an issue for 1st level spells).
If you plan on spending one of your level-up points on boosting your wisdom, why are you starting with a 7 wisdom at all?
The difference between 7 and 8 = 2 point-buy
The difference between 15 and 16 = 3 point-buy
Are you sure you prefer this setup over starting with 9 WIS / 15 CHA, and then boosting charisma to 16 at level 4?
Sure, the difference between an 8 and a 9 may not be that great, and your final modifiers are the same, but -- at least to me -- it seems preferable to playing a 7-wisdom character for your first three levels.
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I am definitely a meleer....I don't see where that could ever be unclear;none of my feats point towards caster,and I am playing a bard,which is basically a toned down sorc in terms of casting.I haven't heard of many bards that have a charisma over 16.
Then why are your spells Grease and Sleep? Grease has control uses, but Sleep is a full round casting time and you will be stuck with it well past the time that it is useful. (Although how useful any spell with a DC 14 saving throw difficulty is debatable).
How are you getting Spring Attack without taking the Mobility feat?
The usefulness and survivability of the character with the people I normally play with would be low, but your area may be more forgiving.
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I would just make a Dawnflower Dervish. If this is for PFS, I think that archetype is better than Dervish Dancer.
Unless I am horribly misreading the Dervish Dancer, the battles dances do not stack, so I much rather have the double bonus from battle dance. And since PFS stops at 12, the better battles dances can't be reached.
Go high DEX, medium CON, medium CHA. Take the Maestro of the Society trait to boost your performance rounds up.
Go something like 16 DEX, 14 CON, 14 CHA. Put the +2 to DEX. Get a scimitar, get chain shirt, the starting feat is Weapon Finesse, and you get Dervish Dance for free at level 1. So right off the bat, you have a +4 to attack and damage which gets pushed to +6 to attack and damage during a battle dance of Inspire Courage.
I would take Saving Finale and maybe Liberating Command or Feather Step at level 1 for spells.
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(Dawnflower Dervish is a fighter archetype which offers nothing at first level, so it makes a poor "starter" for a 11/12ths PFS bard build.)
> 5.Should I replace any feats? 3.Is Spring Attack/Vital Strike worth it?4.Should I take Improved Critical,or just let Razor's Kiss(battle dance) do it for me?
Toughness isn't going to make up for lack of fort-save (although not a bad choice for a bard), and Vital Strike in a d6 weapon is a thoroughgoing waste of time. As a bard, you simply do not have enough feats for extended chains.
Arcane Strike is astonishingly horrible (one of the worse 3.5 > Pathfinder nerfs on the books).
> 1.What spells should I pick for a combat based build?
Anything you can cast as a Swift action, or which is hours or 10min per level -- Mage Armor, Barkskin, Heroism etc. If they're not on your list, UMD wands.
> This is a PFS build.
My advice is make your main stat odd, and raise it to even at 4th and 12th. Not only will it max your stats through the heart of the low/mid levels (the most dangerous levels, IMO), but it lets you spend your 20 build points more efficiently.
I'd be inclined to dump STR than WIS (you are not a paladin), and play a half-elf (Ancestral Arms variant) than a human. You give up some skill points for better mental defenses, and enjoy some other bonuses.
(Halflings really make the best bards if you're raising both DEX and CHA, and worried about your defenses.)
> 2.Should I take a fighter archetype?
IMO, yes.
human 20pt
STR:07
DEX+16
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:12
CHA:15 (all bumps)
traits: reactionary, something else bard-related)
01 fight1 [unarmed][dragon style], Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike
02 bard1
03 bard2 Dervish Dance
04 bard3
05 bard4 Two Weapon Fighting
-- Your melee damage output sucks for 6 mods (starting until leveling at 3rd), so plink with a light crossbow and buff the party during those. If you acquire Fame perfectly, you are eligible for an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist immediately at 4th (have 5000gp saved up); and can punch like a mo-fo. At 5th, you TWF with scimitar and unarmed strike -- good times with 2nd-level spells.
Take bard-related feats with the rest of your levels. Improved Initiative is a good pick for 7th.
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(Dawnflower Dervish is a fighter archetype which offers nothing at first level, so it makes a poor "starter" for a 11/12ths PFS bard build.)
I'm talking about the Dawnflower Dervish BARD archetype from Inner Sea Magic.
It is extremely good. Not open content, so I can't link it to anything. You get battle dance, except the bonuses are DOUBLED, and you get Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at level 1.
Ah ninja'ed.
Although I would like to dump STR, chain shirt + weapon is medium encumbrance with a 7 STR, and it's already borderline with 8 STR. Even a masterwork packback won't help much.
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Well I think you should go what I already suggested.
18 DEX
14 CON
14 CHA
Take Maestro of the Society trait, and you can get 3 more rounds of performance. 14 CHA more than handles the number of battle dances. As long as you go with spells that do not need saves, like buffs or utility, then the 14 CHA doesn't hurt at all. Always pump DEX as it will help with your melee attack, melee damage, and AC. Pump CON via Belts. And if you want more CHA, buy Headbands.
Creative Director
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(Dawnflower Dervish is a fighter archetype which offers nothing at first level, so it makes a poor "starter" for a 11/12ths PFS bard build.)I'm talking about the Dawnflower Dervish BARD archetype from Inner Sea Magic.
It is extremely good. Not open content, so I can't link it to anything. You get battle dance, except the bonuses are DOUBLED, and you get Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at level 1.
Ah ninja'ed.
Although I would like to dump STR, chain shirt + weapon is medium encumbrance with a 7 STR, and it's already borderline with 8 STR. Even a masterwork packback won't help much.
Actually... the Dawnflower Dervish bard from Inner Sea Magic... like pretty much ALL of the rules content in all our books... is open content.
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I dislike the Inner Sea Dervish (there appear to be a confusing number of archetypes and variants with "dervish" in the name; at least three anyway), as it lacks the party buffing aspect that I associate with the role.
You may dislike it, but it is one of the best light/mobile/skirmisher types there are in the game. Using Battle Dance to buff one's self and having it double really solves a lot of issues with MAD, damage output, and AC. Using DEX for just about everything is a massive help. Battle Dancing x 2 really helps keep up with lack of Power Attack. It's actually better at low levels, but later on, Power Attack still trumps.
There's 3 dervishes that I know of.
Inner Sea Primer - Dawnflower Dervish - fighter archetype
Inner Sea Magic - Dawnflower Dervish - bard archetype
Ultimate Combat - Dervish Dancer - bard archetype
I'm very happy that Paizo has fulfilled their promises of making the bard into a rock solid light/mobile/skirmisher type fighting class.
Losing bardic performance sucks a lot, but ultimately this allows players to play what they want. If there was a better option, I would move towards that. I believe this is a good sidegrade, unlike wizard archetypes which almost always are a downgrade (due to the power of the base wizard). Much the same applies to the cleric and druid as well I believe (for the same reasons, base versions are just really powerful).
I actually hoped the magus was more similar to this, but instead the magus relies far more on actual spell casting. Interesting how the bard ended up getting the magic fighting class that doesn't need to cast spells instead of the magus.
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Actually... the Dawnflower Dervish bard from Inner Sea Magic... like pretty much ALL of the rules content in all our books... is open content.(Dawnflower Dervish is a fighter archetype which offers nothing at first level, so it makes a poor "starter" for a 11/12ths PFS bard build.)I'm talking about the Dawnflower Dervish BARD archetype from Inner Sea Magic.
It is extremely good. Not open content, so I can't link it to anything. You get battle dance, except the bonuses are DOUBLED, and you get Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at level 1.
Ah ninja'ed.
Although I would like to dump STR, chain shirt + weapon is medium encumbrance with a 7 STR, and it's already borderline with 8 STR. Even a masterwork packback won't help much.
I did not know that. I thought it was just the core rules stuff That's very cool James.
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I dislike the Inner Sea Dervish (there appear to be a confusing number of archetypes and variants with "dervish" in the name; at least three anyway), as it lacks the party buffing aspect that I associate with the role.
This...isn't precisely accurate. Even sans Bardic Performance Good Hope, Haste, and other such effects make Bards some of the best party buffers in the game.
I view dervish dancer bard less as a buffer, like a normal bard, and more as DPR.
When you look at the pluses, they can go straight to the level of full BAB classes for melee.
They get +2/+2 at level 1- that is on part with barbarian. They end with +8/+8, which, added onto their 3/4 BAB, gives them a baseline attack of +23. That is on par with the full BAB classes.
The only thing that holds this back is the presumption that you should go dervish dancer with this archetype.
1 weapon/1handed is a weak style. Only swashbuckler really manages it, and that is because it gets bonuses to that style taht put it on par with 2 handing as a full BAB character. Anyway, the class gives static damage bonuses on every hit, and you can also throw on arcane strike too (thus ending with a +15).
This class is a perfect case for a TWF or archer character. Because getting a ton of hits lets you get more bonuses on your damage. Go archer, adn rain pain down anywhere on the plains. Or grab a pair of cestuses...cesti?- put a cestus on each hand. That weapon is perfect for caster TWF, since it allows your to still hold things with the hand, and it doesn't explicitly interfere with casting (unlike the brass knuckles, which were released at the same time).
EDIT:ah, TWF was acknowledged earlier...but only that one using the really, really twisted interpretation of dervish dance and unarmed strike. Lets be honest- you aren't getting that to work without being very, very contrary with how the feat was intended. That kind of discussion is why there are a million little notes in the revised version of slashing grace, because Paizo got paranoid.
All aboard the necro train!