BUNCH. OF. HIPPIES!
UP TO NO GOOD!
Don't be ridiculous. That was a totalitarian Regime with no choice about who gets elected and the government ran the businesses. We have two pre selected choices selected for is about who gets elected and the businesses run the government. TOTALLY different!
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Don't be ridiculous. That was a totalitarian Regime with no choice about who gets elected and the government ran the businesses. We have two pre selected choices selected for is about who gets elected and the businesses run the government. TOTALLY different!BUNCH. OF. HIPPIES!
UP TO NO GOOD!
I see your "TOTALLY different!" and raise you a "but we just don't SEE the totalitarianism inherent in our system because we're too busy watching whatever crap Simon Cowell puts on our mind control bo...errr, television".
Ok. So mine was kind of serious.
;-)
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IVV,
In violation of vows I made public in another thread, here I am checking the Paizo boards. However, I did stick to my other vow and am now drunk. Yay!
I dodged your question last time, and I will continue to dodge it today because I know better than to post on this subject when I am drunk. Yay for restraint!
I am, however, thinking about it.
In other news, I am about to start watching Legend of the Tsunami Warrior Yay!
Think we've got it bad? It's worse in Japan. The mono-culture ignores anything inconvenient.
Okay, quick question now that we're discussing other movements: what are your feelings about the protests leading up to the fal of the Berlin Wall and ending of Soviet control over Eastern Europe?
As long as they strictly followed the law and disbanded whenever the police told them too, I approve.
It's every German citizen's duty to abide by the law. And if you're part of the military, it's not only illegal but egregiously immoral to question your orders and the chain of command.
Think we've got it bad? It's worse in Japan. The mono-culture ignores anything inconvenient.
So here's the thing. I'm such an exacting realist most of the time. I like Japanese culture, and eastern culture in general, but I interact with fanbois that act like Japan is some freaking utopia. They have SERIOUS PROBLEMS and are in deep denial about them. At least here we can have a conversation about those problems. I mean, one side will call the other fascists and that side gets called hippies in response, but the idea of discourse is in fact generally encouraged.
Think we've got it bad? It's worse in Japan. The mono-culture ignores anything inconvenient.So here's the thing. I'm such an exacting realist most of the time. I like Japanese culture, and eastern culture in general, but I interact with fanbois that act like Japan is some freaking utopia. They have SERIOUS PROBLEMS and are in deep denial about them. At least here we can have a conversation about those problems. I mean, one side will call the other fascists and that side gets called hippies in response, but the idea of discourse is in fact generally encouraged.
japan isn't a utopia moreso than anywhere else, but there's no need to crap on someone's dreams the way most realists go about it. Still, that's a side topic that has little to do with anything, such as ows. :-)
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Indeed, there is quite civil conversation here. It is warming to know that we can disagree with a minimum of thumbs in the eye.
That said, everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. ;-)
Most likely, it's because all people here know that they have at least one thing in common : gaming. It's easier to get mad at people when you don't know them at all. Or if they play 4E.
It's every German citizen's duty to abide by the law. And if you're part of the military, it's not only illegal but egregiously immoral to question your orders and the chain of command.Okay, quick question now that we're discussing other movements: what are your feelings about the protests leading up to the fal of the Berlin Wall and ending of Soviet control over Eastern Europe?
As long as they strictly followed the law and disbanded whenever the police told them too, I approve.
I guess that somehow there was a misunderstanding and they ended up disbanding the wall...
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On the subject of the Dept of Homeland Security conference call, it is a continuation of what has been going on since the protest in Seattle (and probably before that).
Step one is to release reports in the news about how local groups have been "taken over" or "infiltrated" by "outside anarchists". They then go on to describe "reports" of plans to use homemade weapons, explosives, chemicals, or some other mindbendingly stupid thing like "using shields and body armor to attack the police" . There will also be an unconfirmed report that Al Quida is going to use any protest as cover for some kind of assault against 'merika. Usually this information comes directly from the police and is based on nothing, or screening internet message boards, although that is often not directly stated.
Step two is a massive lockdown and show of force in the form of hundreds of riot police, armored vehicles, etc. The police will trot out their new toys like microwave or sonic weapons, scooters, horsies, helicopters, etc. Welding manhole covers shut, removing garbage cans, newspaper boxes and anything that could "become a weapon". Using bomb sniffing dogs is also a nice touch. Get people thinking a real war or terrorist attack is about to happen, and good people need to stay indoors!
Often there will be a preemptive raid on a "vegan video collective" or some other group. Searches, violent arrests, stuff gets confiscated, and bomb making materials or weapons are found! Except there not. It is always items that any household has, like bleach, hand tools, and fertilizer. The people arrested will be held for a long time, but judges will throw the case out every time.
Allow a "permitted march". This is the big parade where everyone marches together in front of rows of police along a predetermined route to the park where they got all the permits and everything OK'd with the police. The thing they are protesting happens as planned on the complete other side of the city. This is also great for the lazy media types who just use the same ole marching grandma footage so they can tell you why a bunch of hippies (who's message wasn't coherent or consistent enough) created a traffic problem.
Crackdown! Once the permit ends at 5pm, you better get the hell out of there! This is when the undercover police agent provocateurs come out and start pro wrestling with police, throwing stuff, or whatever they feel they need to point at in order to justify clearing the area. Mass arrests, beatings, long detentions, all kinds of rights violations etc. etc. Run as many people as they can into the police stations, and hold them.
Within a year or two, the vast majority of people who got arrested will have their charges dropped, and 5-10 years later there will be millions in settlements paid to all the people who got abused.
I have been watching this happen for over ten years now, and it has gotten almost comical how unoriginal it is. Every G8, World Economic Forum, Democratic-Republican Nation Convention, etc. is the same. Other countries will throw their own personal touches on it (like making arrested people in Italy sing Mussolini songs in jail), but it is the same playbook.
I think the best thing to overcome this is to actually, you know, talk to other people. It can be gross and annoying, but if you want to know what people are protesting, or if you are a protester, and want to get your message out, don't wait for the media - Do it Yourself. Over the years I have found that there isn't much difference between people as the media would have you believe. You have to give the news their sound bite, and hope for the best, but expect the worse.
PS If you actually meet any out-of-town Anarchists, offer them a couch to crash on. They will probably be the nicest most gentle nerds you ever meet. If they don't game, at least they know Monty Python quotes.
Bill Moyers: How Wall Street Occupied America.
More Bill Moyers: "I don't think Occupy Wall Street will have the influence they want unless they do what the tea party did and take over the nominating process. Unless they do, they will never have the satisfaction that they want and that the civil rights movement, say, had back in the 1950s and '60s. These people are not going to have long-ranging effect unless they have a party to act on their interests. They need to become a political movement instead of a grievance committee."
Pardon me if these have been linked, I haven't been able to keep up much lately.
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Something pretty circumstantial that I feel bad for finding. (To be fair, it was on Oregon Public Broadcasting, so it is probably not that bad.)
Edit: I'm pretty sure the police chief wasn't really lying. He spun the truth in a way he thought would make the police seem good, and it probably worked for some. At first, though, it seems like he's saying "We are more interested in protests than rape victims."
Stuff that is true in my own experience.
+1.
Police chief lied about response times for a rape victim? That's pretty low.
Low but sadly not surprising in America. Either that or I am rampantly cynical and jaded, although I suspect the former.
Police chief lied about response times for a rape victim? That's pretty low.Low but sadly not surprising in America. Either that or I am rampantly cynical and jaded, although I suspect the former.
The latter being true doesn't discount the former, and vice versa ;)
Director of Game Development
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I love Bill.Bill Moyers: How Wall Street Occupied America.
More Bill Moyers: "I don't think Occupy Wall Street will have the influence they want unless they do what the tea party did and take over the nominating process. Unless they do, they will never have the satisfaction that they want and that the civil rights movement, say, had back in the 1950s and '60s. These people are not going to have long-ranging effect unless they have a party to act on their interests. They need to become a political movement instead of a grievance committee."
Pardon me if these have been linked, I haven't been able to keep up much lately.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM&feature=youtu.be
UC Davis pepper spraying. Just nuts. That's about all I can say without posting up something I might regret later.
Again, if OWS is so useless, why the fat budget to try to smear them?
The video gives more details.
UC Davis pepper spraying. Just nuts. That's about all I can say without posting up something I might regret later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WTO_protests_in_Seattle_November_30_1999. jpg
The times they are a changing... Or, not.
Seeing these photos and videos makes me realize that I don't really believe in non-violent protest anymore.
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UC Davis pepper spraying. Just nuts. That's about all I can say without posting up something I might regret later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WTO_protests_in_Seattle_November_30_1999. jpg
The times they are a changing... Or, not.
Seeing these photos and videos makes me realize that I don't really believe in non-violent protest anymore.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/WTO_protests_in_Seattle_ November_30_1999.jpg
Linked.
Again, if OWS is so useless, why the fat budget to try to smear them?
The video gives more details.
Is this in response to what Bill Moyers said?
He didn't say they were useless. He said they need to party up if they want to accomplish what's on their agenda. The whole world is talking about OWS, but has even one thing on their list of demands been met in the last two months? No, in fact the opposite--Zuccotti Park was emptied this week.
Big Business is lobbying hard against them because if they can smear them now, an OWS party would carry that smear. And they are very, very afraid of an OWS party. As they should be. They declared war on the poor and middle class 40 years ago (according to Moyers), and an OWS party would be a much belated but IMO very appropriate counterstrike.
EDIT: In response to Freehold's question pages and pages back, that money OWS is sitting on ought to go toward starting an OWS party.
The OWSers can't even get the right target for their ire. Its comical and sad at the same time to watch the degredation of this movement, which was so easy to predict.
Some one needs to tell them that businesses do not have a fiduciary responsibility to them. The government does. The government is giving away your money. They are the ones whom are the stewards of the tax payer's money and they do have a fiduciary responsibility to the people. So why protest businesses who have their hands out or are asking for the tax payer money? Protest the ones who are actually giving your money to them. But instead the forces behind the OWS are promulgating class warefare and their globalist agenda. The term as coined by the movement's own writings 'useful idiots' come to mind. They point and prod, and the lemmings go marching off without even doing any critical thinking.
All one has to do is compare the statistics of crimes, rapes, millions of dollars in property damage and costs to cities to that of say the tea party, and it becomes quite easy to see who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.
Just like that 85 year old lady here in seattle who was asked if she felt bad about blocking traffic and keeping a father from attending his daughter's piano recital. Her response was that the evil capitalists deserve it. This movement is pathetic and disgusting.
An OWS party has a lot of potential benefits, but it would be a very steep uphill battle.
The biggest problem is to start picking leaders. Suddenly everything becomes about a few individuals. A very tricky and drastic change for a movement that has made every effort to remain as horizontal as possible.
Also, they are going up against the entire Rep/Dem machine. I can't help be reminded that Ralph Nader is violently hated by so many democrats, yet probably has the politics that most closely align with OWS. How would folks feel if OWS split the (perceived) Democratic vote, and Rick Perry wins in 2012?
I personally don't believe in voting for the "lesser of two Evils"* But seeing what happened to the Green party when Nader ran for president soured me on the idea that becoming a 3rd Party isn't a very dangerous idea for a political movement.
* I don't really believe our election system is really legitimate, and since NY's electoral votes always go democratic, my vote has never come close to mattering.
An interesting page about where they're going with it. A 3rd party is a possibility.
The OWSers can't even get the right target for their ire. Its comical and sad at the same time to watch the degredation of this movement, which was so easy to predict.
Ok, 9th time.
The protestors are in the right place.
The entire REASON that government is not living up to its obligations is that wallstreet is BRIBING them not to. You cannot simply "clean out" washington of corruption and then everything will be hunky dory. That's like killing mold in your house but not fixing the 140% humidity in the basement: the mold WILL grow back. Wallstreet will simply bribe and subvert the next crop of politicians.
The OWSers can't even get the right target for their ire. Its comical and sad at the same time to watch the degredation of this movement, which was so easy to predict.Ok, 9th time.
The protestors are in the right place.
The entire REASON that government is not living up to its obligations is that wallstreet is BRIBING them not to. You cannot simply "clean out" washington of corruption and then everything will be hunky dory. That's like killing mold in your house but not fixing the 140% humidity in the basement: the mold WILL grow back. Wallstreet will simply bribe and subvert the next crop of politicians.
You know, my daughter asks for things all the time. But guess what? I have to put the daddy pants on and tell her no. If I give her candy for her kisses and it spoils her, its my fault and not hers.
So NO, the protestors are NOT in the right place. You can't demonize someone or destroy a class of people because some corporate entities lobby and try and buy favors. They don't hold the power. Those in our govt ultimately makes the decision to be influenced or corrupt. We don't live in some imaginary utopian society and never will. The problem is that those in our govt have made it easier and easier to take advantage of corruption, just like with insider trading that they get away with. Our govt gave, on the average per person, more in bonuses to Freddie and Fannie recently than what any of the big corporations gave after getting tax payer money.
It is our duty to change the system and start voting in people who will not succumb to that kind of corruption. People like Dr. Ron Paul. His reccord is self evident. This is fundamentally what the tea party is all about.
It is our duty to change the system and start voting in people who will not succumb to that kind of corruption. People like Dr. Ron Paul. His reccord is self evident. This is fundamentally what the tea party is all about.
I am very tempted to register as a republican just so i can vote for Ron Paul. I don't know how well some of his ideas would work, but i know that he's what an honest republican would look like. At least then there's a choice between big government and small government not, "which aspect of your life do you least like being regulated by government"
You know, my daughter asks for things all the time. But guess what? I have to put the daddy pants on and tell her no. If I give her candy for her kisses and it spoils her, its my fault and not hers.
Its not remotely this simple or the dishonest politician meme wouldn't have been with us for at least 2000 years. Do you think in all that time people have never gotten the idea that "Hey, lets put some honest people in there!"
Lets use Ron paul as an example of why this doesn't work. There what... 3 of him out of 525 representatives and the presidency? Why is that? Look how hard it is for him to garner any media attention despite consistently coming in higher in the poles than most of the "front runners" besides Romney. Corporations don't want him in office, corporations control the media, he doesn't get the media attention he deserves, so he doesn't stand a chance. Most people are too oblivious/stupid to follow politics and you can ask people about Ron Paul and a fairly common answer is "who?"
Lets say we have 8 republicans running and 8 democrats running. No one really pays attention to the primaries, so its VERY cheap to buy a little support in the form of campaign contributions and advertising about. You find candidate R3 and candidate D7 and contribute to their campaigns. They use the money to put adds on tv about how great they are and how scary their opponents are, and even use the corporate money to proudly state how they're not in the pocket of big _____ and point out all the corporate money their opponents have.
So NO, the protestors are NOT in the right place. You can't demonize someone or destroy a class of people because some corporate entities lobby and try and buy favors. They don't hold the power.
Wall Street repeatedly refers to regulators as "captured agencies." It's a functioning part of their business model.
They're in the right place.
Some folks put up tents next to Wall Street
For a couple of months it was all sweet
Bloomberg found them scary
'Cause they had a library!
And could think, and could talk, and could tweet!
Buffy and Chaz camped out in Zucotti
Havin a we hate Wall Street party.
They spent 6 years for the chance
A degree in interpretive dance
But its other's fault they can't afford a Maserati.
;)
Mine's accurate.
Didn't say it wasn't.
Mines a dig at the few there for the wrong reasons.
So NO, the protestors are NOT in the right place. You can't demonize someone or destroy a class of people because some corporate entities lobby and try and buy favors. They don't hold the power. Those in our govt ultimately makes the decision to be influenced or corrupt.
Just so you know, the Mayor of NYC just happens to be Michael Bloomberg.
"With a net worth of $19.5 billion in 2011, he is also the 12th-richest person in the United States. He is the founder and 88% owner of Bloomberg L.P., a financial news and information services media company."
"In March 2009, Forbes reported Michael Bloomberg's wealth at $16 billion, a gain of $4.5 billion over the previous year, enjoying the world's biggest increase in wealth in 2009."
"In the fall of 2008, Bloomberg successfully campaigned for an amendment to New York City's term-limits law, in order to allow him to run for a third term in 2009. Bloomberg won the election on November 3, 2009."
I don't think you could find a better symbol of the obvious problems of mixing politics, media, and and corporate influence then Bloomberg. In this country we have institutionalized bribery in the form of lobbying. Both those offering the bribes, and those taking the bribes are at fault, as are those who are supposed to expose such things.
OWS Is exactly where it belongs in NYC, DC, and every other city until this country gets back on track.
EDIT: And here is a little icing on the cake for you:
"Bloomberg divorced Brown and is currently living with former New York state banking superintendent Diana Taylor"
"The New York State Banking Department is the primary regulator for state-licensed and state-chartered financial entities, including domestic banks, foreign agencies, branches and representative offices, savings institutions and trust companies, credit unions and other financial institutions operating in New York including mortgage bankers and brokers, check cashers, money transmitters, and licensed lenders, among others. Total assets of the institutions regulated are nearly $2.2 trillion."
Good point. Bloomberg is the literal personification of what's wrong, here.
Right. These people might cause an ambulance to be delayed, which could get someone hurt. Quick, spray them in the face with pepper, beat them in the kidneys with clubs and run them over with horses... for safety!
All one has to do is compare the statistics of crimes, rapes, millions of dollars in property damage and costs to cities to that of say the tea party, and it becomes quite easy to see who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.
How many kinds of lies are there again...?
This is simply too stark/black and white a view for me to entertain. Still, if it works for you, it works for you.
Buffy and Chaz camped out in Zucotti
Havin a we hate Wall Street party.
They spent 6 years for the chance
A degree in interpretive dance
But its other's fault they can't afford a Maserati.;)
I've heard similar songs being sung in the past few weeks. What gets me is just how much money these same critics spend on entertainment where the people who get such degrees tend to flourish- or complain that life would be better society would be if more people did.
Didn't say it wasn't.
Mines a dig at the few there for the wrong reasons.
If you guys came up with those on your own, I am impressed.
EDIT: Nevermind, I guess you didn't.