So I have a simple concept that I am struggling to make work. I want to play a character who changes into various kinds of animals (of various sizes) and/or vermin but who does not cast spells. I have scoured the PFSRD feats, archetypes, spells, items and prestige classes and failed to find a good way to make this work.
The best I have been able to come up with is multiclassing something with druid. This requires at least 4 levels of druid in order to get wildshape. Even then, it requires a fairly complicated build for he character to remain functional as he progresses. Also, a number of class features are wasted (ex: spells & animal companion)
This seems like such an obvious character concept that I am surprised it has not been covered somewhere. Do any of you have any suggestions?
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So I have a simple concept that I am struggling to make work. I want to play a character who changes into various kinds of animals (of various sizes) and/or vermin but who does not cast spells. I have scoured the PFSRD feats, archetypes, spells, items and prestige classes and failed to find a good way to make this work.
The best I have been able to come up with is multiclassing something with druid. This requires at least 4 levels of druid in order to get wildshape. Even then, it requires a fairly complicated build for he character to remain functional as he progresses. Also, a number of class features are wasted (ex: spells & animal companion)
This seems like such an obvious character concept that I am surprised it has not been covered somewhere. Do any of you have any suggestions?
If you can take 3.5 stuff there was a shapeshifter druid variant that let you choose one form at 1st level.
The reason it hasn't been covered is because druids do it about as well as it can be done without breaking it wide open.
There's a feat that lets you increase your druid level by 4 for wildshape (max = HD) so multiclassing that druid with barbarian would be thematic and grant you most of what you want. And animal companions are always good. (There's also a feat that gives you +4 levels for it, max = HD.)
What's the feat that adds to your shapeshifting? I need that for an upcoming character.
So I have a simple concept that I am struggling to make work. I want to play a character who changes into various kinds of animals (of various sizes) and/or vermin but who does not cast spells. I have scoured the PFSRD feats, archetypes, spells, items and prestige classes and failed to find a good way to make this work.
The best I have been able to come up with is multiclassing something with druid. This requires at least 4 levels of druid in order to get wildshape. Even then, it requires a fairly complicated build for he character to remain functional as he progresses. Also, a number of class features are wasted (ex: spells & animal companion)
This seems like such an obvious character concept that I am surprised it has not been covered somewhere. Do any of you have any suggestions?
I've spent some time thinking about it myself. I think there are two criteria to being a shape-shifter:
1) You should be able to fight using natural weapons.
2) You should be able to disguise yourself as another creature.
There really isn't a class that can do that without using spells other than the druid. You might be able to fake it with a Summoner using the Synthesist archetype, but you still wouldn't get the disguise capability.
Another possibility is an alchemist (feral mutagen for natural weapons, disguise self and polymorph spells for imitating monsters), but that's really just another flavour of spellcasting.
EVOLVER
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Perform (acting), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival, Swim.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier.
Evolvers are proficient in all Simple and Martial Weapons. Evolvers are also proficient in any natural weapons they gain by assuming other forms. Evolvers are not proficient with any armor or shields.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Evolution Pool, Evolutions, Evolve Form (disguise self, enlarge person, reduce person), Evolver’s Defense, Evolver’s Trick, Evolving Enhancement
2. Evolving Trait (skills)
3. Evolve Form (alter self, barkskin, tree shape)
4. Evolver’s Defense +1, Evolver’s Trick
5. Evolve Form (beast shape I, gaseous form, invisibility, water breathing)
6. Evolving Trait (feat), Rapid Change (standard action)
7. Evolve Form (beast shape II, elemental body I), Improved Evolving Enhancement
8. Evolver’s Defense +2, Evolver’s Trick
9. Evolve Form (beast shape III, elemental body II, greater invisibility, plant shape I, polymorph, righteous might)
10. Evolving Trait (extraordinary class feature)
11. Evolve Form (beast shape IV, elemental body III, form of the dragon I, plant shape II, transformation)
12. Evolver’s Defense +3, Evolver’s Trick, Rapid Change (move action)
13. Evolve Form (elemental body IV, form of the dragon II, giant form I, plant shape III, greater polymorph, statue), Greater Evolving Enhancement
14. Evolving Trait (supernatural class feature)
15. Evolve Form (form of the dragon III, giant form II, iron body)
16. Evolver’s Defense +4, Evolver’s Trick
17. Evolve Form (shape change)
18. Evolving Trait (spell-like class feature), Rapid Change (swift action)
19. Ultimate Evolving Enhancement
20. Evolver’s Defense +5, Evolver’s Trick, Fluid Form
Evolution Pool (Su). You have a pool of evolution points equal to ½ your class level + your Constitution modifier. You use these points to power your shape changing abilities.
Evolutions (Su). Whenever you change your form using your Evolve Form ability, you can spend extra points from your Evolution Pool to add one or more Evolutions your new form. Use your evolver level as your summoner level for the purposes of determining which Evolutions you can use.
Evolve Form (Su). You can change your shape as a full round action by spending 1 point from your Evolution Pool.
At 1st level, you can use disguise self, enlarge person, or reduce person.
At 3rd level, you can use alter self, barkskin, or tree shape.
At 5th level, you can use beast shape I, gaseous form, invisibility, or water breathing.
At 7th level, you can use beast shape II, elemental body I.
At 9th level, you can use beast shape III, elemental body II, greater invisibility, plant shape I, polymorph, or righteous might.
At 11th level, you can use beast shape IV, elemental body III, form of the dragon I, plant shape II, or transformation.
At 13th level, you can use elemental body IV, form of the dragon II, giant form I, plant shape III, greater polymorph, or statue.
At 15th level, you can use form of the dragon III, giant form II, or iron body.
At 17th level, they can use shape change.
The Save DC of any special ability of the evolver’s assumed form is 10 + ½ your evolver level + your Constitution modifier.
Evolver’s Defense (Ex). The evolver adds his Wisdom bonus to his AC when he is not wearing any armor or carrying a medium or heavy load. This bonus applies to his touch AC, and he does not lose this bonus to his AC when he is flatfooted or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus to AC. He does lose it if he is immobilized or helpless. At level 4, and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus to his AC increases by +1.
Evolver’s Trick (Su). At 1st level, 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the evolver chooses one of the following abilities.
Ability Damage/Drain Resistance. When you use Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool and gain the ability to reduce the amount of ability damage, ability drain, and ability penalties you sustain by an amount equal to the number of Evolver’s Tricks that you have.
Chameleon. You gain a bonus equal to your class level on Disguise and Stealth skill checks.
Damage Reduction. When you use Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool to grant yourself DR 1/silver for every Evolver’s Trick you know (including this one). At 20th level, when you use this ability you gain DR 10/silver instead.
Early Form. When you choose this Evolver’s Trick, you add an Evolve Form type of level equal to 1 higher than you currently can use to your list of known Evolved Forms. For example, at 1st level, you could add alter self, barkskin, or tree shape to your list of known Evolved Forms.
Fast Healing. When you use Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool to grant yourself Fast Healing 1 if your hit point total is less than ½ your normal maximum.
Fortification. When you are using Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of Light Fortification. At level 8, you gain the ability to spend 2 additional points from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of Medium Fortification. At level 16, you gain the ability to spend 3 additional points from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of Heavy Fortification.
Hand Tool. By spending 1 point from your Evolution Pool, you can turn one or both of your hands into a tool. If you spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool, this is considered a masterwork tool.
Hand Weapon. By spending 1 point from your Evolution Pool, you can turn one or both of your hands into a light or one-handed Simple weapon. By spending 2 points from your Evolution Pool, you can turn one or both of your hands into a light or one-handed Martial weapon.
Kangaroo Pouch. You can grow a pouch with an extradimensional capacity on your body. You can store up to 10 pounds per level in the pouch. You can remove or place an item in the pouch as a free action; this essentially lets you use Quick Draw for any weapons that are stored in your pouch.
Living Weapon. By spending 1 point from your Evolution Pool, you can transform your hands into claws that do damage equal to the unarmed strike of a monk of your level.
Magic Fang. When you use Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of magic fang to one of your natural attacks. You can spend 2 additional points from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of greater magic fang instead. You can spend 1 additional point from your Evolution Pool to gain the benefits of align fang.
Quick Change. You decrease the amount of time it takes to use Evolve Form by one step, from a full round action to a standard action at 1st level, from a standard action to a move action at 6th level, from a move action to a swift action at 12th level, and from a swift action to a free action at 18th level.
Quick Curing. You can spend one point from your Evolution Pool as an immediate action and heal yourself 1d8 hit points for every Evolver’s Trick that you have.
Quick Foot. When you are using Evolve Form, you can spend an additional point from your Evolution Pool to give yourself a +10 foot enhancement bonus to your speed for every Evolver’s Trick you know (including this one).
Evolving Enhancement (Ex). Whenever you use your Evolve Form ability, you gain one of the following enhancements: +2 to Strength, +2 to Dexterity, +2 to Constitution, or +2 to your natural armor. At 7th level, you choose two of the above enhancements, and one of them provides a +4 bonus. At 13th level, you choose three of the above enhancements, and one of them provides a +6 bonus and one provides a +4 bonus. At 19th level, you gain a +8, +6, +4, and +2 bonus, distributed amongst all four enhancements.
Evolving Trait (Ex). At 2nd level, you gain an evolving trait. You gain an additional evolving trait at levels 6, 10, 14, and 18. An evolving trait is an ability you can change each day; once it is selected it lasts for 24 hours or until you spend a point from your Evolution Pool to change it. At 2nd level, you can use your evolving trait to gain a number of skill ranks equal to your level. At 6th level, you may select any feat you qualify for as a bonus feat. At 10th level, you can select any extraordinary class ability from any other class, this ability must be available at the other class’s level equal to half your class level. If the ability has any prerequisites, you must meet those requirements. At 14th level, you can select any supernatural class ability from any other class; this ability must be available to the other class at a level equal to half of your class level. At 18th level, you can select any spell-like ability class feature from any other class; this ability must be available to the other class at a level equal to half of your class level.
Rapid Change (Su). At 6th level, you can use Evolve Form as a standard action. At 12th level, you can use Evolve Form as a move action. At 18th level, you can use Evolve Form as a swift action.
Fluid Form (Su). You can use Evolve Form at will without spending any points from your Evolution Pool. You may still spend points from your Evolution points to enhance your form or activate any of your other class abilities, as normal.
I agree that wildshaping is tricky to keep from being broken. The Ranger variant from 3.5 is a definite step in the direction I want to go although it limits to small and medium animals. If there were feats that expanded his size options, we'd be in business.
Using multiple feats to advance the primary characteristic is fairly inefficient.
My hope was an archetype or prestige that would be mechanically either:
1- starts with a druid and trade in the Druid's spells and nature bond for fighter hit points, BAB, and something to help with AC and/or damage.
2- Start with a fighter and trade in most (or all) of his bonus feats for wildshape as a druid)
3- Start with a barbarian and trade in rage and rage powers for wildshape.
Why not a shapeshifter ranger with the skirmishes archetype?
Why not a shapeshifter ranger with the skirmishes archetype?
The shapeshifter ranger passes the "fight with natural weapons" test (which is the easy one), but fails miserably on the "imitate a monster" test.
Even the infiltrator ranger does better on the "imitate a monster" test, IMO.
3- Start with a barbarian and trade in rage and rage powers for wildshape.
I like that A lot! I hope Paizo makes something like that official soon. I'm not a big fan of rage, but I am a big fan of wild shape.
Why not a shapeshifter ranger with the skirmishes archetype?The shapeshifter ranger passes the "fight with natural weapons" test (which is the easy one), but fails miserably on the "imitate a monster" test.
Even the infiltrator ranger does better on the "imitate a monster" test, IMO.
Solution: play a tengu!
What about a Doppelganger?
EVOLVER
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8Evolution Pool (Su). You...
Where did this come from? This is and interesting take on the issue.
Where did this come from? This is and interesting take on the issue.EVOLVER
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8Evolution Pool (Su). You...
SmiloDan made it himself for another thread.
Oh too bad. I was hoping it was from a playtest or an upcoming publication. :(
Oh too bad. I was hoping it was from a playtest or an upcoming publication. :(
You are the playtest! :)
I'm in the camp of making a Shapeshifter as a Barbarian archetype. I really like the idea of trading in the rage powers for actual shape shifting. You could make it so that the length of the shape shift lasts as long as a rage would normally last. And fatigue and the use of constitution makes sense for someone shapeshifting without magic.
I'm in the camp of making a Shapeshifter as a Barbarian archetype. I really like the idea of trading in the rage powers for actual shape shifting. You could make it so that the length of the shape shift lasts as long as a rage would normally last. And fatigue and the use of constitution makes sense for someone shapeshifting without magic.
On the other hand, I've thought about a shapeshifter as a Monk archetype (swap monk AC bonus with a natural armor bonus, flurry of blows with natural attacks and add some polymorphing ability in exchange for the existing ki powers).
Ion Raven,
I had the same thought, but making the wildshape only last Xrounds/day takes away most of the cool things you can do with it outside of combat.
Hogarth
I think the Monk makes a lot of sense as well. The Monk is designed to function without weapons or armor already and has non-spell magical powers. I will put some thought into that.
What's the feat that adds to your shapeshifting? I need that for an upcoming character.The reason it hasn't been covered is because druids do it about as well as it can be done without breaking it wide open.
There's a feat that lets you increase your druid level by 4 for wildshape (max = HD) so multiclassing that druid with barbarian would be thematic and grant you most of what you want. And animal companions are always good. (There's also a feat that gives you +4 levels for it, max = HD.)
Shaping Focus
Preqs: wild shape class feature, knowledge nature 5 ranksBenefit: If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild
shape ability is calculated as though your druid level
were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your
character level.
Special: This feat has no effect if you are not a
multiclassed druid.
and to compliment
Shapeshifting Hunter
You blend your knowledge of foes and your shapeshifting
abilities together.
Prerequisites: Favored enemy class feature, wild shape
class feature.
Benefit: Your levels of druid stack with your ranger
levels for determining when you select your next favored
enemy. Also, your ranger levels stack with your druid levels
in determining the number of times per day you can use
your wild shape class feature, up to a maximum of eight
times per day.
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So I have a simple concept that I am struggling to make work. I want to play a character who changes into various kinds of animals (of various sizes) and/or vermin but who does not cast spells. I have scoured the PFSRD feats, archetypes, spells, items and prestige classes and failed to find a good way to make this work.
The best I have been able to come up with is multiclassing something with druid. This requires at least 4 levels of druid in order to get wildshape. Even then, it requires a fairly complicated build for he character to remain functional as he progresses. Also, a number of class features are wasted (ex: spells & animal companion)
This seems like such an obvious character concept that I am surprised it has not been covered somewhere. Do any of you have any suggestions?
you want to play a master of many forms, 3.5 complete adventurer. its exactly what you want.
or it might be warrior... anyway you get one wild shape per level of the prestige class, then you get to turn into elementals dragons ect.. you will have to work with your GM to make it functional with pathfinder since they changed wildshape to a template. but you give up ALL casting to have the best shapechange abilities possible in 3.5, or pathfinder for that matter.
colossal elemental or dragon anyone?
oh and i forgot the best part of the PrC you get to change into humans, magical beasts, and giants and can mimic any humanoid perfectly. man that class kicked ass lol
MoMF sounds overpowered. It sounds like it lets you turn into just shy of a Deity.
Perhaps I can convince my DM to allow a more balanced version of the class
So I have a simple concept that I am struggling to make work. I want to play a character who changes into various kinds of animals (of various sizes) and/or vermin but who does not cast spells. I have scoured the PFSRD feats, archetypes, spells, items and prestige classes and failed to find a good way to make this work.
The best I have been able to come up with is multiclassing something with druid. This requires at least 4 levels of druid in order to get wildshape. Even then, it requires a fairly complicated build for he character to remain functional as he progresses. Also, a number of class features are wasted (ex: spells & animal companion)
This seems like such an obvious character concept that I am surprised it has not been covered somewhere. Do any of you have any suggestions?
Have you considered Synthegist?
Sadly you are limited to 1 shape each level (as you can only change how evolution points are spent each level).
Thanks
What about playing as a Lycanthrope from the bestiary? You get a humanoid form, animal form, and hybrid form. You only get the one type of animal though.
I thought about that and found problems:
First off, monstrous characters often cause problems (thematic and mechanical) with games and many GMs don't want them in the game.
Second, you are very limited in what you can turn into (only one animal form).
Third, the concept I have in mind involves turning into a tiny creature to sneak around. There are a few monsters that can turn into tiny creatures, but the ones I saw are all not usable as PCs.