Summoner and Eidolon Errata and Questions


Rules Questions


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Summoner and Eidolon are filled with exceptions and questions so I thought it would be great to have one thread that encompassed everything.

Augment Summoning - Works for the Summoner's SLA but not on the Eidolon in any way shape or form.

Healing - The Eidolon does not heal naturally.

Can the eidolon heal ability score damage or does he have to have restoration cast on him every time he gets ability damage? (This happened when I was level 1, 11 pts of strength damage to the eidolon.)

Use Magic Device - SLAs can not be used in place of a spell trigger.

If a summoner creates a scroll of Summon monster with the help of his SLA, does that monster stay around for rounds or minutes?

Enlarge - If a non-bipedal eidolon gets enlarge person cast on him, does he still gain reach? Is the reach conferred by the spell, or is it conferred by the fact that the eidolon is simply growing in size.

Gear - What happens to the eidolon's gear when he is dismissed? Does it fall into a pile in the square where he used to be, allowing monsters to grab and run, or does it leave with him?

If the gear falls to the floor, what happens if the eidolon goes out of range or falls into a bottomless pit. Do you just lose all of the gear the eidolon had?

If the gear goes with the Eidolon, what happens if the summoner dies? Can a portal to the eidolon's plane be cast to retrieve the gear?

Feats (Unconfirmed)- The Eidolon can not take bestiary feats (Improved Natural Attack) Animal Companions can take Bestiary Feats.

Eidolon Death - What happens if Dimensional anchor is cast on the Eidolon and it dies? Does it ever come back, or is there a mechanism for the Summoner to get a new Eidolon?


Mogart wrote:

The Summoner and Eidolon are filled with exceptions and questions so I thought it would be great to have one thread that encompassed everything.

Augment Summoning - Works for the Summoner's SLA but not on the Eidolon in any way shape or form.

This one was solved a long time ago. It comes up a lot, but the consensus, and it is provable by the rules is that it does not work.

Quote:


Healing - The Eidolon does not heal naturally.

I thought that was covered in the class description, but don't quote me on that.

Quote:

Use Magic Device - SLAs can not be used in place of a spell trigger.

If a summoner creates a scroll of Summon monster with the help of his SLA, does that monster stay around for rounds or minutes?

That is correct. SLA's are not spells. They only function as spells for certain purposes.

Quote:


Enlarge - If a non-bipedal eidolon gets enlarge person cast on him, does he still gain reach? Is the reach conferred by the spell, or is it conferred by the fact that the eidolon is simply growing in size.

Reach is always determined by size and whether the creature is long to tall. The eidolon has nothing mentioning an exception to this rule.

Quote:


Gear - What happens to the eidolon's gear when he is dismissed? Does it fall into a pile in the square where he used to be, allowing monsters to grab and run, or does it leave with him?

This one does need to be clarified. I have not seen anything official. I don't think it makes sense to reequip every time it comes back, but many would argue differently.

If the gear falls to the floor, what happens if the eidolon goes out of range or falls into a bottomless pit. Do you just lose all of the gear the eidolon had?

Quote:


Feats (Unconfirmed)- The Eidolon can not take bestiary feats (Improved Natural Attack) Animal Companions can take Bestiary Feats.

There is not ruling saying they can't. Anyone can take a monster feat if they qualify for it. The issue is that most PC's don't qualify for them.

Quote:

Eidolon Death - What happens if Dimensional anchor is cast on the Eidolon and it dies? Does it ever come back, or is there a mechanism for the Summoner to get a new Eidolon?

It only last for min/level so it is really a nonfactor.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Augment Summoning works on any "Summon" spell, which includes Summon Eidolon. It doesn't work when the eidolon is summoned by the 1 minute ritual.

Ability damage on the eidolon can only be healed by spells.

If it's on your spell list, you don't need to make UMD checks. A SLA doesn't count as being on your spell list.

As a general rule summoned creatures drop anything they weren't summoned with when they die or are dispelled.

I'm pretty sure the Bestiary feat restriction only applies to Pathfinder Society games.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Gjorbjond wrote:

Augment Summoning works on any "Summon" spell, which includes Summon Eidolon. It doesn't work when the eidolon is summoned by the 1 minute ritual.

Actually this one was over ruled by the developer. It doesn't work at all for the eidolon.


Mogart - can you post the developer's name so I can try and find this or better yet link to that post here please.


I am having trouble finding the developer name but this is part of a similar conversation.

Druid Vs Summoner thread

I am fairly sure that James Jacobs commented on it, but at the moment I can't find it.

Anyway the basics behind the argument are that the Eidolon is summoned by a (Su) which happens to be a ritual. In the text of the Summon Eidolon spell it says that you summon the Eidolon as normal. So a normal summons of the eidolon involves the (Su), and so because it it an (Su) you don't get augment summoning. The only thing that the spell does is increase your speed in utilizing the (Su)


Mogart wrote:
Gjorbjond wrote:

Augment Summoning works on any "Summon" spell, which includes Summon Eidolon. It doesn't work when the eidolon is summoned by the 1 minute ritual.

Actually this one was over ruled by the developer. It doesn't work at all for the eidolon.

AFAIK it does not work for the class ability. I never saw a quote saying it does not work for the spell.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Mogart wrote:
If a summoner creates a scroll of Summon monster with the help of his SLA, does that monster stay around for rounds or minutes?

I don't think a summoner can make a scroll from his SLA.

Scribe Scroll Feat wrote:
You can create a scroll of any spell that you know

I don't think that the Summon Monster SLA counts as "knowing" the spell. You would have to take the summon monster spell from your spell list before you could "know" it for purposes of scribe scroll.

So your question is moot.


Summoner Summon Monster SLA"...In addition, he can expend uses of this ability to fufill the construction requirements of any magic item he creates, so long as he can use this ability to cast the required spell."
So yes in can be used in item creation (and therefore Scrolls)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

but it would function as the spell itself. not the enhanced duration summoners get with their summons. and full round casting time. otherwise they need a way to differentiate, by price, the summon monsters scrolls crafted by summoners, from those crafted by wizards. otherwise no one would buy a 1 round , round/level scroll over a 1 standard action, minute/level scroll.

since their SLA fulfils the requirement of "knowing" the spell for crafting, they can craft a scroll of summon monster. that functions exactly like a wizard's scroll of summon monster.

feats and abilities of the caster don't get passed on to a scroll. a wizard's scroll of burning hands isn't better if he knows spell focus (evocation), and it doesn't count when he reads it off the scroll. it wouldn't work for the summoner either.


I agree Seraphimpunk, as written the use of the Summoners SLA to create a scroll should just create a 1 round summon monster - the same as any other arcane caster. It is possible for casters with feats to create scrolls / wands etc with those built in, but they are created as if they were higher level. I believe that the same should happen here, for the Summoner.
The scroll they could possibly create is equivalent to a 10th level version of the same item, so it would be valued at 250gp. (An extended Summon Monster I created by another arcane caster would be 25[gp]x2[Spell level]x5[Caster Level] = 250gp)
For the equivalent duration at higher levels the generic spell extended wins out over the base spell cast at a higher level. (2 1000/750 3 2250/1500 4 4000/2500)
More interesting items to try and sell to your GM are items that mimic the power of the SLA(Enhancing the duration of any Summon Monster Cast), but that is beyond "Rules Questions" and into general advice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

An interesting situation came up my last session. My Synthesist Summoner was the recipient of Baleful Polymorph. Failed the Fort save and changed into a rabbit. Made the Will save to retain own mind.

The Eidolon was out. So both me and eidolon are subject to the spell. Who changes into the rabbit? me, eidolon or both.

If Eidolon is dismissed and the recalled with ritual would he still be a rabbit or as in description how I want him to appear?

A very vague point: The 1 minute ritual to summon the Eidolon. What is entailed in that? The books only mention a ritual. Is this only meditation, or do you need speech and/or somatic parts as well?


David Thomassen wrote:

I agree Seraphimpunk, as written the use of the Summoners SLA to create a scroll should just create a 1 round summon monster - the same as any other arcane caster. It is possible for casters with feats to create scrolls / wands etc with those built in, but they are created as if they were higher level. I believe that the same should happen here, for the Summoner.

The scroll they could possibly create is equivalent to a 10th level version of the same item, so it would be valued at 250gp. (An extended Summon Monster I created by another arcane caster would be 25[gp]x2[Spell level]x5[Caster Level] = 250gp)
For the equivalent duration at higher levels the generic spell extended wins out over the base spell cast at a higher level. (2 1000/750 3 2250/1500 4 4000/2500)
More interesting items to try and sell to your GM are items that mimic the power of the SLA(Enhancing the duration of any Summon Monster Cast), but that is beyond "Rules Questions" and into general advice.

Although I agree with you on this, you could read this as you could make the scroll as per how you cast the spell but, and here is the catch, only a summoner would have this spell on his spell list as all other arcane casters have a spell that has the same name BUT the duration is not the same therefore making it a different spell. As such you either have arcane casters being able to cast from the scroll but no advantage or arcane casters not being able to cast from the scroll (cause it's not on their spell list) and having to trick the scroll with use magic device to get it to work. I would suggest that if you want the longer duration the name of the spell should be called enhanced summon monster/natures ally (for all you wild callers).


Our particular table rules that the eidolons gear comes and goes with it, as otherwise its a royal pain in the butt.

Some gms like being a royal pain in the butt though.

Its total fiat either way though.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Summoner and Eidolon Errata and Questions All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.