If an individual afflicted lycanthropy suffers from an alignment shift due to his/her condition, can they regain their alignment through the Atonement spell and still retain the lycanthropy condition without an alignment shift in the future?
Not sure if it is outlined, but speaking from my personal experience on the subject is that atonement wouldn't (or just temporarily) alter the alignment change. Lycanthropes take on the basic instincts and nature of the creature they become so as long as they are a lycan, they would probably keep the base alignment of that creature.
From a balance point of view, it is one of the drawbacks of becoming a lycan in the first place, as well. There is a reason werewolves are feared and detested, because they are evil and murderous.
If an individual afflicted lycanthropy suffers from an alignment shift due to his/her condition, can they regain their alignment through the Atonement spell and still retain the lycanthropy condition without an alignment shift in the future?
This spell removes the burden of misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds.
This is from the first part of the Spell's description. As a GM and seeing how the Lyconthrope template works if you become CE then you really are CE and wouldn't want or even wish for this spell on you. Not saying it's possible but the proses would be really hard and long.
The first setp would be to remove the problem the Lacantropy then with some Good RP they might convince the NPC of taking the Atonement Spell
This is why GMs take control of the Players char when they take on and evil Aliment
There is nothing in the rules that state a WereCreature has to be a certain alignment. You can have Lawful Good Werewolves and chaotic evil Werebears all day long. It's upto the GM how to play the role out.
Just because your alignment shifts does not mean you lose all your Were abilities, as Lycanthropy is a Natural (for some) state and not one tied to your moral standings.
Actually the vast majority are of a certain alignment. Here is where it is based off:
Lycanthropy As An Affliction
When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s bite (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity, temporarily becoming an NPC. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until the next dawn.
The character’s actions during this first episode are dictated by the alignment of its animal form. The character remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Wisdom check, in which case he becomes aware of his lycanthropic condition.
Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed on a Control Shape check (see below) to resist changing into animal form. Any player character not yet aware of his or her lycanthropic condition temporarily becomes an NPC during an involuntary change, and acts according to the alignment of his or her animal form.
A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.
Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope.
There is a will save involved or permanently change your alignment AND the first time they voluntary change it happens immediately and permanently.
While this may have been changed by Paizo, I'd still roll with the above personally as it is a curse and the lore I've always seen attributed with it points toward that.
It is a different case for natural born lycanthropes but I got the impression the OP was talking about those that have been inflicted with the curse.
Those inflicted with lycanthrope automatically change to match the "presumed" alignment of their lycanthropic affliction, as Aleron noted above.
The atonement spell allows for several things, ranging from helping a person to alter their alignment as an act of will, to removing a magical alignment change (and, as lycanthrope is a supernatural, or magical, effect, and it forces an alignment change this would apply), and also tempt someone to a new alignment (that of the caster). Yes, it removes the burden of misdeeds, but there's also a redemption/temptation option to allow an alignment change. Mrs. Blightsworn's interpretation is... odd, to say the least, if I'm reading her correctly. With that interpretation, according to my understanding of her words, the spell would never be useful save by paladins who'd committed their one evil deed and lost the benefits. Otherwise, how would an evil creature be atoned?
... huh. I just looked on the PFSRD entry for lycanthrope, but it doesn't mention the alignment change, even though that was something I was fairly sure was part of Pathfinder too.
Regardless, looking at another site...
The d20SRD entry on lycanthrope notes that...
Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope.
Which means that every time an afflicted lycanthrope voluntarily assumes its other forms, it takes on the new alignment. So it seems the atonement spell certainly can shift its alignment (by way of removal of magical change caused by lycanthrope, the willful act of the fallen, or the redemption/temptation effect), however it'll be a repetitive process as every time the lycanthrope changes, (s/)he becomes evil again.
NOTE: not all kinds of lycanthrope (despite the name indicating only werewolves) are evil. Werebears have got to be the best kind.
ALSO: I'd recommend a better set of options
1) atone that puppy to high heaven
2) find a scroll of polymorph any object (preferably with more than one use, in which case you can skip step one)
3) use it on the afflicted lycanthrope to a) make him a natural lycanthrope, b) make him an afflicted lycanthrope of the appropriate kind
The reason this works is the way the duration factor functions.
+5 - same kingdom (animal/vegetable/mineral) [animal]
+2 - same class (mammal/fungi/metal/etc) [mammal*]
+2 - same size [medium/whatever]
+2 - related (twig-to-tree, wolf-fur-to-wolf, etc) [afflicted to natural]
+2 - same or lower intelligence [you're not changing the intelligence]
That means you've got a duration factor of +13, when you only need a +9 to make it permanent.
ALSO ALSO: I totally wish that "lycanthrope" had been changed to either "therianthrope" or "zoanthrope" for game-term purposes, because not all of them are lycans (or wolves), but that's just me.
NEAR-INSTA-EDIT:
Okay, just looking at my Bestiary, and it doesn't actually talk about voluntarily shifting = permanent alignment change, however it does say that whenever in animal or hybrid form the GM should take control of the character UNLESS the character is a natural lycanthrope. So, yeah, it's not part of the core rules anymore, and the whole atonement thing isn't really necessary at all.
I'm pretty sure this is mostly left open to DM interpretation, and I think it's intentional.
Does the N/PC in question have memories of the transformation? If not, then the DM may interpret that the character is merely a vessel for two spirits, and that the spirit is what affects alignment, so the character's alignment doesn't change, and the body (if affected by spells such as detect [alignment]) will detect as whatever spirit is in control at the time. They may rule the other way, as well, that the spirit is cursed and twisted, or may not even deal with it on that level.
If the character in question DOES have memories of the events while transformed, do they struggle to control them? Do they struggle out of revulsion, or out of desire to guide the raw power of the new form? Do they make any attempt to mend unnecessary damage done by the lycanthrope form? Are they remorseful?
Not every DM will think of every factor that could go into making such a decision, so there will be many different opinions. The best thing to do is discuss it thoroughly and come to a consensus within your group; failing that, the DM has the final say.
My primary concern is for a Paladin PC who has become afflicted with the curse. He would like the his paladinhood back but likes the conflicted dark-hero aspect that could be involved with the storyline. He does know abut the condition.
My primary concern is for a Paladin PC who has become afflicted with the curse. He would like the his paladinhood back but likes the conflicted dark-hero aspect that could be involved with the storyline. He does know abut the condition.
Rather than assume the paladin has to become evil, I'd draw on Lawrence Talbot for inspiration. Sure he changes at the full moon and has no control over it. That doesn't make him any more evil or chaotic at any other moment. He's utterly horrified by what he does as the wolf.
In my game I'd rule that a paladin could remain a paladin even if he were a werewolf. He'd definitely want to invest in a good iron cage or atone for his rampage the morning after (general make-things-right, not necessarily the spell). It would mean a long, slow decline into an epic moral battle between his two natures. How does it end? Does he fall? Can he control the wolf? Can he force the wolf into actions against its nature or will the wolf force the paladin into deeds he had never dreamed his hands capable of?
But only so long as the paladin never voluntarily changed. Voluntary transformation means he's given in to the wolf's call and would require an atonement to begin the cycle again.
The curse is called a curse for a reason. Unless the DM specifically is wanting to let loose the critters for the PC's to become, the rules should remain that way.
Can an Afflicted Paladin atone and keep being a were creature? I would say yes. But he'd also take *every ability in his power* to make absolutely CERTAIN he didn't "get free" during his time of the month.
You essentially have a ravenous, murderous beast on the loose. He'd make a cage, tie himself up with silver (or whatever it took) and so on.
I personally think that while the RP would be worthwhile- no Deity would let the abomination atone until he had cured himself and made reparations for his misdeeds. Part of atoning isn't just a willingness to stop doing bad, but the ability as well. The afflicted character- Paladin or not- just doesn't have that ability.
If the DM wants the PC to be able to though then of course- the DM sets the law :) but otherwise I really don't think so.
-S
I have a natural werewolf barbarian from Irrisen and we ruled he becomes his hybrid form whenever he rages, kind of releasing the beast,
but I still retain full control of the character. The beastiary also says once you accept the animal side you can make FORT saves to keep from changing with the full moon.