I run a Pathfinder Homebrew, where the characters began as being part of a crew aboard a pirate ship. I had them all write back stories and they had to have one PC relationship (i.e. brother, business partner, companion etc.)and two NPC relationships they got to choose out of a list I made. The group is a really great bunch and they are all good friends and good Role Players. Unfortunately none of them really trust each other and the majority of the party (5 out of 6)are Chaotic Neutral alignment (fitting with the pirate theme). I thought that trust would foster naturally within the group but that has not been the case and the game has been going for almost a year.
Do you have any advice on how to build trust within a party?
Are there trust building exercises for RPGs?
Has anyone else had this problem?
I run a Pathfinder Homebrew, where the characters began as being part of a crew aboard a pirate ship.
I don't think starting off as professional cutthroats is the way to encourage intraparty trustworthiness.
The tone is somewhat serious, at first they were pirates and then some of their actions incurred the wrath of some powerful groups, The Navy; because of their piracy, Rival Pirate Groups; for invading and taking property in their 'territories' and a Merchant Company for promising intel and then sending the group reported the wrong intel, purposefully.
They have a code of conduct, standard stuff aboard any naval vessel, chain of command, everyone has their posts, meal time, lights out etc.
They didn't all start out as cut throats, they have several different backgrounds. Map maker, tribesman, burglar, barber, swashbuckler, former slave (these are actual backgrounds they came up with).
In most cases, the group gels and people know their roles, but their is a lot of in fighting with this group.
Are you giving the party hard enough challenges? If the challenges are too easy, the biggest threats to your cutthroat pirates are each other, and it will show. If you give them tough challenges where they must pull together to survive, they generally should do just that.
Anyway -- what sorts of things are they doing that show distrust? If they are small jokes that do not disrupt the game, that would just be your players roleplaying well. If they are actually trying to kill each other, then yes, you do have a problem.
One idea might be to have one of the NPC pirates turn on the other pirates (both PCs and NPCs) in the same sort of evil/stupid way that you want to discourage them from doing -- then have him get caught, with the result that the other NPCs (with or without the PCs) gang up on him and kill him, citing whatever "pirate code" that scumbag violated.
I don't think it makes sense to ask a bunch of Chaotic Neutrals to trust one another.
May I ask what the goal is, of getting them to trust each other?
Even if they are Chaotic Neutral, they should at some point after being around each other for a long period of time, be able to depend on one another.
I honestly hadn't thought of a 'goal'. I just wanted the group to cooperate with one another. So in the middle of a fight person A doesn't decide to use the Person B as cover and then when Person B gets upset about it and 'retaliates' a brawl starts between PCs when they were already fighting NPCs. The enemies do capitalize on this but it only furthers the animosity between PC's.
Once or twice is fine, fun even. But its becoming a regular thing and its aggravating.
Are you giving the party hard enough challenges? If the challenges are too easy, the biggest threats to your cutthroat pirates are each other, and it will show. If you give them tough challenges where they must pull together to survive, they generally should do just that.
Anyway -- what sorts of things are they doing that show distrust? If they are small jokes that do not disrupt the game, that would just be your players roleplaying well. If they are actually trying to kill each other, then yes, you do have a problem.
One idea might be to have one of the NPC pirates turn on the other pirates (both PCs and NPCs) in the same sort of evil/stupid way that you want to discourage them from doing -- then have him get caught, with the result that the other NPCs (with or without the PCs) gang up on him and kill him, citing whatever "pirate code" that scumbag violated.
I think the challenges are tough, with failure resulting in adequate penalties, but I may need to reevaluate them.
That's a good idea, I'll probably use that.
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I run a Pathfinder Homebrew, where the characters began as being part of a crew aboard a pirate ship. I had them all write back stories and they had to have one PC relationship (i.e. brother, business partner, companion etc.)and two NPC relationships they got to choose out of a list I made. The group is a really great bunch and they are all good friends and good Role Players. Unfortunately none of them really trust each other and the majority of the party (5 out of 6)are Chaotic Neutral alignment (fitting with the pirate theme). I thought that trust would foster naturally within the group but that has not been the case and the game has been going for almost a year.
Do you have any advice on how to build trust within a party?
Are there trust building exercises for RPGs?
Has anyone else had this problem?
I don't think it's a problem.
I think it is a variation.
Are you giving the party hard enough challenges? If the challenges are too easy, the biggest threats to your cutthroat pirates are each other, and it will show. If you give them tough challenges where they must pull together to survive, they generally should do just that.
Anyway -- what sorts of things are they doing that show distrust? If they are small jokes that do not disrupt the game, that would just be your players roleplaying well. If they are actually trying to kill each other, then yes, you do have a problem.
One idea might be to have one of the NPC pirates turn on the other pirates (both PCs and NPCs) in the same sort of evil/stupid way that you want to discourage them from doing -- then have him get caught, with the result that the other NPCs (with or without the PCs) gang up on him and kill him, citing whatever "pirate code" that scumbag violated.
I think the challenges are tough, with failure resulting in adequate penalties, but I may need to reevaluate them.
That's a good idea, I'll probably use that.
Ive had this issue before in the games Ive run. Usually its all good RP that results in one or more of the party members disliking the others.
I usually try to remind my group out of game that while this is a game for fun thats not the case for the PCs they are RPing. They are usually in very dangerous Life or Death situations together. Litterally every member of the party has saved every other party member from sure death at one point or another.
I then ask them that if in real life a guy saved your life multiple times... would you not let the small stuff slide. Sure you might not agree with every thing they do but if you can count on them to save your bacon they diserve some RP trust.
That usually works. They realize that each member owes thier life to each other and tend to work the small stuff out.
I run a Pathfinder Homebrew, where the characters began as being part of a crew aboard a pirate ship. I had them all write back stories and they had to have one PC relationship (i.e. brother, business partner, companion etc.)and two NPC relationships they got to choose out of a list I made. The group is a really great bunch and they are all good friends and good Role Players. Unfortunately none of them really trust each other and the majority of the party (5 out of 6)are Chaotic Neutral alignment (fitting with the pirate theme). I thought that trust would foster naturally within the group but that has not been the case and the game has been going for almost a year.
Do you have any advice on how to build trust within a party?
Are there trust building exercises for RPGs?
Has anyone else had this problem?
Also sometimes in game strife can be fun. I played in a game where I and a female friend decided to do something fun.
I played a Half-Fiend LE Wizard. She played a Half-Celestial CG Sorceror. We absolutly hated each other. Direct oppossing alignments and both half races that hated each other since the beginning of time. And I played as my character with a surperiority complex that looked down on "natural" casters.
We got it oked by the DM that we met at a Wizards Fair and got into an all out fight. The god of Trickery and Mischief (Mask I think?) decided it would be a hoot to bind us together. We woke up from the fight bound by a god's guise. If we where more then a mile a part we would start to die, we felt what the other felt, and if one of use died... so did the other. Made for a very fun RP game. I think I ended up torturing her emotionally(False documents that pointed to her love bieng unfaithful, ect) to the point she had turned Chaotic Neutral and was steadily starting to depend on me... hehe. Was hecka fun.
Hope that doesnt derail the issue, but if you have something in game that forces the party to stay together... then RPing party strife can be fun if all players are into it.
Ive had this issue before in the games Ive run. Usually its all good RP that results in one or more of the party members disliking the others.
I usually try to remind my group out of game that while this is a game for fun thats not the case for the PCs they are RPing. They are usually in very dangerous Life or Death situations together. Litterally every member of the party has saved every other party member from sure death at one point or another.
I then ask them that if in real life a guy saved your life multiple times... would you not let the small stuff slide. Sure you might not agree with every thing they do but if you can count on them to save your bacon they diserve some RP trust.
That usually works. They realize that each member owes thier life to each other and tend to work the small stuff out.
I did point this out to them but some of them preferred their "characters" to hold the grudge, no matter how unrealistic.
Hope that doesnt derail the issue, but if you have something in game that forces the party to stay together... then RPing party strife can be fun if all players are into it.
Two of the characters have formed a mental link (minor telepathy) after a series of events. And it has been fun to see this go on as they hear each others thought processes.
You said you've been playing this homebrew for a year. Has it been like that from the start or is this recent? If this is how they've rp'd for a year then it's going to be very difficult to strongarm them into trust without it coming off like a complete and total fiat. The mission where depending on each other is vital could work, but it also sounds like they're more likely to leave each other to rot. Not gonna say unsalvageable, but it will be very difficult to change in a way that feels natural, depending on how long this has gone on.
This has been going on for a while, I thought it may have just been a phase started by one of the PC's being manipulated by a spell. But after a while it never quite ironed itself out.
I do appreciate everyone's input and I will attempt to implement the suggestions in a feasible manner. Thanks again for the help and advice.
I don't think it makes sense to ask a bunch of Chaotic Neutrals to trust one another.
May I ask what the goal is, of getting them to trust each other?
Even if they are Chaotic Neutral, they should at some point after being around each other for a long period of time, be able to depend on one another.
I honestly hadn't thought of a 'goal'. I just wanted the group to cooperate with one another. So in the middle of a fight person A doesn't decide to use the Person B as cover and then when Person B gets upset about it and 'retaliates' a brawl starts between PCs when they were already fighting NPCs. The enemies do capitalize on this but it only furthers the animosity between PC's.
Once or twice is fine, fun even. But its becoming a regular thing and its aggravating.
What you describe is inherent in their alignment. The further you get from Good, the less trust there can be. It's part of the reason my house rules disallow non-good alignments. There's enough strife between Law and Chaos without throwing opportunists and bad guys into the mix.
What is the one unusual alignment? If it is a Good character, maybe their influence can help gel the group.
Is their in-fighting interfering with their ability to overcome challenges? If so, I'd say too bad for them. Or maybe kudos for roleplaying their own demise. Is it interfering with their fun? Are you the only one this affects negatively? (Which is valid. You have to have fun too.)
If you want them to gel you're going to have to turn their world upside down, because maintaining the course as is will effect no change. Give them reasons to work together. Put them in a situation where they have to cooperate just to survive. The shipwreck idea is a good one for this purpose. If they don't pull through (like if someone sees a storm as an opportunity to exact revenge), then that is the bed they have made. Nothing unusual about PC death.
Failure of that magnitude to band together could actually be an opportunity to do what you want. Perhaps a DM-intervention resurrection/alignment shift or two might shock them into different behavior. Nothing smacks of finding God more than getting resurrected.
RPG teamwork exercise--have them roll Good characters for a 1-shot and see how they like the change. Arneson's b-day is coming up on Oct. 1 and is a perfect excuse to shake things up.
Another option is to simply ban PvP. This might come across as a punishment though and I'd hesitate to actually do it except as a last resort.
Above all, be careful. The one incident of PvP I've ever experienced resulted in the premature end of a campaign and players that no longer play together. This was due to a particularly immature player and is not the norm, but is worthy of note.
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You party is 5/6 CN alignment.
That's a formula for a train wreck. Just deciding where to eat lunch could result in fatalities.
Perhaps they are given the opportunity to work for different employers, but make it clear that gaming sessions will revolve exclusively around this particular captain who will not tolerate infighting. This gives players a chance to retire their character and roll up a new one.
Given the setting, I don't think it would work if they did trust each other.
Just take a look at the pirates of the carribean films, a bunch of untrusting and untrustworthy pirates, each one out for his or herself and more than willing to stab the next person in the back, "guidelines" permitting of course.
There is a reason that Jack Sparrow is considered an "antihero".
It's interesting because the original post does not totally clarify if the problem of trust is really one of intentional, intense roleplaying on the part of the players, or if it was a trust issue between the players themselves.
You did mention that these are all really good friends in real life, but that can break down easily on the game level if you are talking about naturally competitive or suspicious people.
My group is made up of very good friends, many of us have known each other for decades. Yet, one player took almost that long to learn to trust the GM. Two of the players are people with mercenary attitudes in real life, who, even though they are our good friends, often choose CN for their characters and often play rather stingily. They are able to come out of the shell and cooperate, but it always takes time for them to warm up in a new campaign. Two other regular players are total team players and play generously.
Think of it this way: when you sit down to play Monopoly or poker, everybody is out for themselves. Some people, some entire groups, are so competitive that that is also the attitude they take in a cooperative game, such as an RPG. Doesn't mean they aren't friends.
So I think what you might need to do is ask yourself, is this their essential nature, despite them being friends? If it is, you might have to get used to it on some level, because no matter how you foster cooperation within game, there's always going to be an element of it.
Have to say I agree with Cartigan on this. Maybe you could mitigate it a bit by having some 'laws of piracy' that the pirates mostly adhere to, a la the Conan short stories.
Expect the next thing out of your players mouths to be about how they're really more like guidelines.