So, maybe I'm completely crazy, but I'm slowly piecing together a campaign for the first time, and for players I have my 10 year old cousin, his Mom, and my Mom. They're all fun, creative folks and both my Mom and my cousin are growing nerdlings. I plan to keep the fights a bit easier for a few levels, and to involve a lot of crazy high-fantasy stuff to make it exciting. All-in-all, I'm not really -terribly- worried about our odd group or learning how to DM. What I would really love, however, is advice from experienced folks who might know a great deal more off the top of their heads than I do.
-Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? I'd like to keep the risk real, but I don't think I could really kill any of them any time in the next 15 levels without being forced to eat boiled hay for a week.
-My Mom immediately jumped on the idea of playing out her favorite fantasy character, 'Polgara' (see: boiled hay) from the Eddings' series (fantastic read if you haven't seen them before). She expressed that she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'. I've already explained to her that part of the fun is starting out a little underpowered and growing to be someone powerful and awesome, and she accepts that. The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts? Multiclassing from a healer into a sorcerer or something sounds a bit complicated for her.
-My cousin should be okay, I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him. That way he can just kinda jump into the fray. He's quite clever for his age, but has a limited patience for confusing or complex things. Again, if this sparks up any particular advice for similar situations, feel free to cast it my way. :)
-My aunt is still trying to decide if she wants to play at all, so I may have to get back to this later. She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me.
Mostly, this is all coming together for my cousin. He wants to play with my adult friends and I... not a particularly good mix. He's a good kid, I think he could benefit a great deal from playing, and I've always wanted to try DMing. Seems like the thing to do. :) Thanks in advance. <3
So, maybe I'm completely crazy, but I'm slowly piecing together a campaign for the first time, and for players I have my 10 year old cousin, his Mom, and my Mom. They're all fun, creative folks and both my Mom and my cousin are growing nerdlings. I plan to keep the fights a bit easier for a few levels, and to involve a lot of crazy high-fantasy stuff to make it exciting. All-in-all, I'm not really -terribly- worried about our odd group or learning how to DM. What I would really love, however, is advice from experienced folks who might know a great deal more off the top of their heads than I do.
You aren't crazy, I run a game for my three kids plus friends, with ages from 8 years to 27 (and I'm 46!). Best advice I can offer is to keep it pacy and allow oportinities that allow creative thinking but don't require it.
-Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? I'd like to keep the risk real, but I don't think I could really kill any of them any time in the next 15 levels without being forced to eat boiled hay for a week.
Give the foes high hit points, scale back attacks enough that one-shotting characters is not (quite) possible.
-My Mom immediately jumped on the idea of playing out her favorite fantasy character, 'Polgara' (see: boiled hay) from the Eddings' series (fantastic read if you haven't seen them before). She expressed that she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'. I've already explained to her that part of the fun is starting out a little underpowered and growing to be someone powerful and awesome, and she accepts that. The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts? Multiclassing from a healer into a sorcerer or something sounds a bit complicated for her.
There was a feat in 3.5 that allowed a sorcerer access to the spells from a clerical domain - Devoted Arcanist or some such. A sorcerer with access to the cure domain spells could fill the niche nicely. Another possibility is the Psionics system done by Dreamscarred Press, an Egoist can use the psionic healing abilities on others but still has access to the general use powers.
-My cousin should be okay, I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him. That way he can just kinda jump into the fray. He's quite clever for his age, but has a limited patience for confusing or complex things. Again, if this sparks up any particular advice for similar situations, feel free to cast it my way. :)
I did this with my youngest, but you have to keep it pacey because without foes to fight and nothing to do they WILL get bored.
-My aunt is still trying to decide if she wants to play at all, so I may have to get back to this later. She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me.
Don't panic, druids can do plenty at low levels and they have animal companions to boot.
Mostly, this is all coming together for my cousin. He wants to play with my adult friends and I... not a particularly good mix. He's a good kid, I think he could benefit a great deal from playing, and I've always wanted to try DMing. Seems like the thing to do. :) Thanks in advance. <3
As long as your adult friends don't mind, running a game for all separate from your normal gaming this could be fun - some of the best games I have been in have had young kids involved; just leave off adult subjects and it works fine.
You need 22 goblins, a golden chalice, a unicorn and a poisoned King.
The plot:
The Evil Witch/Queen/Priestess sends a gift to the King a golden Chalice. Upon drinking from the chalice the King falls ill. All of the Kings men leave to search for a cure.
The Party:
The kings advisor tells the party that a unicorn must be found to heal the king.
The Quest:
But the last unicorn in the kingdom was "captured" by goblins.
So the Heroes must fight their way to the goblin king and defeat him to free the unicorn and save the king.
It's a simple set up but you can milk it for life.
Watch a Disney movie and steal the hell out of the plot.
As for the sorcerer healing, Celestial? Maybe
Kids aren't stupid but they are impatient...they're just like adult players only shorter and sober.
Kids are're stupid but they are impatient...they're just like adult players only shorter and sober.
+1. Kids really get into it as long as they have something to do. Let the kid play a melee type, and let him fight a lot. He won't have a lot of patience for too much plot and such. The story can be whatever you like (even complex, for the adults), but he'll have a sword and he'll want to swing it, so get some fighting in right away.
GM: You've been summoned to the baron's mansion for an important meeting about his recently-kidnapped daughter. While you're walking there, a bunch of masked men jump from the shadows and attack!
Kid: Cool! I fight back!
Let them try to flank him, and show him how to get out of it, etc.
The two biggest things you need to teach (hopefully through story) is the roles of the characters and the importance of teamwork. Your first adventure should both have challenges that only one of the PCs can overcome and challenges that the only the group can overcome together.
The players need to feel like heroes at times, they also need to feel humble at times and hopefully teach them that not all encounters need to be solved with violence.
Yeah I'm definitely leaning towards some sort of combat-without-consequence start, such as an arena. I like your suggestion to ensure having unique tasks for each of them - it's something I was forgetting about. I'm fairly confident I can get my cousin just as interested in the story as he is in the combat...so long as it has enough 'woa' high-fantasy moments. It's my ultimate goal to teach him more about working as a team and encourage more creative thinking in problem solving.
Give the foes high hit points, scale back attacks enough that one-shotting characters is not (quite) possible.
I like it, keeps the fight alive longer but hopefully gives them time to learn how not to take axes in the face repeatedly. And I'm glad I'm not crazy. :3
A sorcerer with access to the cure domain spells could fill the niche nicely.
^Will definitely look into this. Thank you!!
As long as your adult friends don't mind, running a game for all separate from your normal gaming this could be fun - some of the best games I have been in have had young kids involved; just leave off adult subjects and it works fine.
I plan on seeing how it goes with these 3 first then going from there. My aunt/mom may not be as into it over long term as they think, and if that's the case I may be able to continue the game with my other group. I'd definitely prefer to give my cousin time to mature a bit in the game world first.
You need 22 goblins, a golden chalice, a unicorn and a poisoned King.
Kids aren't stupid but they are impatient...they're just like adult players only shorter and sober.
ROFL yes, I definitely plan to treat him like an adult, it's one of the reasons he likes hanging out with me. :) And yes, I think some unicorns will be necessary.
It'll go something like this.Let the kid play a melee type, and let him fight a lot. He won't have a lot of patience for too much plot and such.
With his Mom playing with us it'll be an interesting balance. I don't think I'll be describing too many decapitations with intricate detail, but on the other hand he seems pretty interested in story and plot for a kid, so hopefully he'll give me some interesting conversation. I'm really looking forward to throwing him in a dungeon the first time he talks smack to authority. XD
Thanks for all the great advice folks, it's VERY much appreciated!
Just wanted to end that debate over what your mom should play...
Spontaneous caster with a not too large spell list, with free cure spells, and various themed abilities to choose from? Oracle!!!11
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So, maybe I'm completely crazy, but I'm slowly piecing together a campaign for the first time, and for players I have my 10 year old cousin, his Mom, and my Mom. They're all fun, creative folks and both my Mom and my cousin are growing nerdlings. I plan to keep the fights a bit easier for a few levels, and to involve a lot of crazy high-fantasy stuff to make it exciting. All-in-all, I'm not really -terribly- worried about our odd group or learning how to DM. What I would really love, however, is advice from experienced folks who might know a great deal more off the top of their heads than I do.
You're not crazy. Many (if not most) people get into RPGs because of family and friends.
Some tips:
- Start small and build up. Begin with a hometown and the immediate area; make the hometown a modest sized community toward the fringes of a minor barony, instead of the large capital city of the kingdom. This gives you a chance to keep things small scale and personal to the characters, while allowing more time for you to flesh out the rest of the campaign. When developing the campaign, build it organically from the PCs' choices; let their goals and actions provide the general direction for the overall plot (feel free to elaborate or put in obstacles and side plots, however).
- Don't go overboard on the high fantasy elements. Keep the epic themes and powerful, over-the-top magic as occasional elements; if they become commonplace, they lose much of their impact. It's like overuse of special effects in a film; very shortly, it loses the "coolness" factor and starts to detract from the other aspects in the attempt to "top" the last effect.
- Don't be afraid to make mistakes. As the GM, you will be the one setting the tone and making the majority of the decisions on how things work. You need to show/tell the players how their characters interact/relate to the setting (to include NPCs). For everything that the PCs attempt, you need to provide a description of the results. You also need to coach them on their actions with the consequences/reactions of the rest of the setting. You also need to set the example on "getting in character" and providing flavorful prose instead of just system mechanics.
-Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? I'd like to keep the risk real, but I don't think I could really kill any of them any time in the next 15 levels without being forced to eat boiled hay for a week.
Read this essay on encounter design. Keep the "big boss fights" as rare encounters and use more groups of weaker opponents who use terrain and tactics effectively (cover, concealment, disarming, ranged attacks, surprise, tripping, etc.); also, mix up the creatures and tactics in different encounters. If you use the same general type of creature with the same general tactics (i.e., melee brutes) in almost every encounter, not only will the encounters all start to feel the same, but the PCs will optimize to take out that type of encounter with minimal effort (i.e., mobile ranged attacks to keep the melee brutes out of melee range).
Also, don't be afraid of "killing" PCs. There is usually enough leeway with the death and dying rules that actual PC deaths should be rare at lower levels; once breath of life/raise dead is available, death becomes more of an inconvenience than a permanent event. If the "death" is from stupid choices, then let it stand; if it's from bad luck (poor die rolls by the player, great die rolls by the GM), the GM can instead have the character(s) captured and give them chance to escape/be rescued. One other option is to use Hero Points from the Advanced Player's Guide.
-My Mom immediately jumped on the idea of playing out her favorite fantasy character, 'Polgara' (see: boiled hay) from the Eddings' series (fantastic read if you haven't seen them before). She expressed that she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'. I've already explained to her that part of the fun is starting out a little underpowered and growing to be someone powerful and awesome, and she accepts that. The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts? Multiclassing from a healer into a sorcerer or something sounds a bit complicated for her.
I'll second the suggestion that an oracle is probably the best choice. Depending on what she means by "powerful sorceress," the Ancestor, Flame, Heavens, Life, Nature, Time, and Wind mysteries are worth looking at. Battle, Metal, Stone, and Wood are good choices for a character who's more focused on being an effective combatant.
-My cousin should be okay, I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him. That way he can just kinda jump into the fray. He's quite clever for his age, but has a limited patience for confusing or complex things. Again, if this sparks up any particular advice for similar situations, feel free to cast it my way. :)
Make sure that he doesn't over-specialize. Especially for fighters, with all of their bonus feats, it's worthwhile to be decent at one or two maneuvers (such as bull rush, disarm, or trip), melee combat, and ranged combat, instead of focusing on one to the exclusion of others. Also, make sure he balances improvements to AC and attacks/damage as he advances.
-My aunt is still trying to decide if she wants to play at all, so I may have to get back to this later. She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me.
If druid and sorcerer don't work, the synthesist archetype for the summoner might work. It's not true shapeshifting, but "wearing" an "eidolon suit" can meet much of the flavor, especially if your aunt wants to change into a specific creature type.
Mostly, this is all coming together for my cousin. He wants to play with my adult friends and I... not a particularly good mix. He's a good kid, I think he could benefit a great deal from playing, and I've always wanted to try DMing. Seems like the thing to do. :) Thanks in advance. <3
Probably a good idea. For a 10-year old, the campaign should feel more like The Hobbit than The Lord of the Rings; you should also consider if and how much adult themes you and you friends may not flinch at (such as incest, rape, etc. in George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire) are appropriate.
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Welcome to the ranks of those of us brave and special enough to be a GM! You've made the right choice. I can't really stand being a player for long unless the game is really, really good. Anyway, advice...
I second(third) the Oracle idea for the sorceress - IF she wants to heal. If she'd rather blast, then a Wizard is the way to go, or failing that a Sorcerer(ess). She's a wizened adult, show her the d20pfsrd pages and let her choose. :)
That, and tell her she can switch it up after an adventure or two if it isn't what she wants. After all, you're all learning.
As for the 'kid', I'd have to point out that he's ten and unless his mom doesn't allow video games, he GETS the role-based play thing. And XP, and level progression, and tactics. This is all video game 101 for that age group. Remember, us older types were amazed by simple RPGs like those on older hardware. This kid was three when Marrowind hit the Xbox. Fighter's a fine choice, but I might make sure he looked at Ranger, Paladin, Cavalier, or one of the other more option-heavy characters. He's young, but he's probably not a beginner and an overly-restrictive character might cause him to decide that video games are better.
That's on you if it happens. We KNOW where you live. (j/k j/k...)
Anyway for the game itself, try and go for short adventures. Crawls consisting of less than eight encounters that can be settled in a single sitting are good. RP adventures are a good idea, too, if you can keep them short. Mix in a little combat, for sure, but part of your task in introducing new players to the game is showing them the variety possible. Think of your game story like a TV series. Episodic content, variable challenges, running all along a theme.
After a session or two, try and surprise them a bit with your creativity. Or your ability to steal other's creativity, at any rate. (That's what keeps me going...) Throw in a princess that's actually a monster, or a goblin that's central to solving the adventure. This is one of the ways that RPGs can shine. You can tailor the content as you go through in ways that no other medium could.
EDIT: Forgot about the aunt! You might just encourage her to watch a session or two, first. Some new players are shy, but dive right in once they know what to expect.
Anyway, I could go on all day... Got any questions we might take a crack at?
Why not use the Beginner's Box when its released?
One other word of advice I would give is, if you are new to DMing try running an Adventure Path or some society modules to begin with. Rise of the Runelords is great with the opening encounter with a horde of goblins attacking the festivities your youngest player can go to town on (mine did).
An oracle with a flashy mystery can be a cool sorceress/healer too. Or just use the witch with sorcerer-like casting and spells known. Celestial bloodline gives healing, or make a homebrew bloodline that gives some healing.
It can be a little overpowered since they're newbies and only 3 of them. Give it channel energy at 1st level, all cure spells as bonus spells, at 3rd, 9th, and 15th levels, she can get a paladin mercy, and something cool and healy at 20th level, like True Rez or Mass Heal.
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Personally, for new players that like non casting, I always prefer to give them a Ranger.
A new players natural instinct is the Fighter so they just 'go in and hit things' but for new players that concept can be to the detriment of experiencing the game as a whole - they get in the mentality that killing is what the fighter does, everything else others can sort out. As a result, during non combat you risk them losing interest due to lack of things to do (2 skill points don't go far)
The Ranger has everything you could want for a new player. Give him a big 2h weapon and he can wade to the front and do scary damage especially against his Favoured Enemy. Or, bad guys in a tricky place? Not a problem, hand the Ranger a bow and he can be just as scary as he is with a 2h (hello switch hitter)
Then, outside of combat he has 6 skill points + Int to play with allowing him to scout ahead, sneak around, track monsters etc.
If the game goes long enough he even gets to try his hand at a spell or two and of course gets a pet!
The only disadvantage to the Ranger is less AC, but then, at low lvl he will likely match or even beat the fighters AC due to high Dex.
Oddly, I think the Fighter makes a much better char for experienced players, because the real fun from a Fighter comes from all the extra feats and making quite a specialist combatant which tends to need prety good knowledge of the game.
Finally, make sure you give a generous point distribution, at least 20. Personally I like to give 24 or 25 with the restriction that no stat can be dumped (so 10 prior to race modifier is minimum) thi is so you don't end up with everyone dumping Int and having a lack of skill points - I like new players to have plenty of skill points to ensure they can be involved in all the game has to offer
Personally, for new players that like non casting, I always prefer to give them a Ranger.
A new players natural instinct is the Fighter so they just 'go in and hit things' but for new players that concept can be to the detriment of experiencing the game as a whole - they get in the mentality that killing is what the fighter does, everything else others can sort out. As a result, during non combat you risk them losing interest due to lack of things to do (2 skill points don't go far)
The Ranger has everything you could want for a new player. Give him a big 2h weapon and he can wade to the front and do scary damage especially against his Favoured Enemy. Or, bad guys in a tricky place? Not a problem, hand the Ranger a bow and he can be just as scary as he is with a 2h (hello switch hitter)
Then, outside of combat he has 6 skill points + Int to play with allowing him to scout ahead, sneak around, track monsters etc.
If the game goes long enough he even gets to try his hand at a spell or two and of course gets a pet!
The only disadvantage to the Ranger is less AC, but then, at low lvl he will likely match or even beat the fighters AC due to high Dex.
Oddly, I think the Fighter makes a much better char for experienced players, because the real fun from a Fighter comes from all the extra feats and making quite a specialist combatant which tends to need prety good knowledge of the game.
Finally, make sure you give a generous point distribution, at least 20. Personally I like to give 24 or 25 with the restriction that no stat can be dumped (so 10 prior to race modifier is minimum) thi is so you don't end up with everyone dumping Int and having a lack of skill points - I like new players to have plenty of skill points to ensure they can be involved in all the game has to offer
Yeah ranger was one of the first characters I made and I enjoyed it a lot.
...Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? ...
1) Have an opponent be a high dex swashbuckler type. Trips and disarms people. Steals favorite items. Etc... He doesn't do a lot of damage but is hard to kill. This lets him be a reoccuring character that they will love to hate (as long as you don't get carried away with it). It also gives them an intro to some of the more complicated rules without having it be a part of their build.
2) Undead allows you to have a clearly evil opponent while staying within a PG rating.3) Push all of them to have above average intelligence and spread out their skill points. Then keep the skill checks coommon and fairly easy. That gets them some exposure to various things.
4) Plagerize current/recent pop culture completely without shame. If you copy a lot from say 'Shrek' it makes you job easier and suggest possible situation solutions they might not have thought of.
...she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'....
I'd recommend the sorcerer with celestial bloodline.
...I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him...
That should do ok, but I might choose barbarian instead for some more skill points and less feats to choose. Also, it kinda matches alot of the books and video games he probably has gone through. Also, he may want to get involved with the magic but I would stay away from the magus or multiclassing. I'd recommend skill focus and UMD to give him some magical participation. Like someone else said, don't have him specialize for first character(especially since only combat type). He can slowly over levels take the improved bull rush, grapple, trip, disarm. Most younger players like those once they have the standard mechanics down pat.
...She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me...
Druid will probably work ok. It is a while before they get many of the abilities so the complications are still kinda gradual. The spell list won't seem boring to a newbie. It only seems that way when you compare it to the say the wizards with the knowledge of what they can do. Especially if you have some of it take place outside where they can shine.
BTW: Let us know how it goes. =)
-Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? I'd like to keep the risk real, but I don't think I could really kill any of them any time in the next 15 levels without being forced to eat boiled hay for a week.
Use hero points from the APG. Not only does it help the players feel heroic (spending points on something really important) but if they keep 2 in reserve if they take a big hit that would kill them or a death effect they can save their lives by spending 2. The threat is still there because they got dropped by a big hit, but they aren't dead they are just unconcious, so they can be healed and thus no boiled hay.
-My Mom immediately jumped on the idea of playing out her favorite fantasy character, 'Polgara' (see: boiled hay) from the Eddings' series (fantastic read if you haven't seen them before). She expressed that she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'. I've already explained to her that part of the fun is starting out a little underpowered and growing to be someone powerful and awesome, and she accepts that. The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts? Multiclassing from a healer into a sorcerer or something sounds a bit complicated for her.
How do you feel about 3rd party material? I can think of 2 methods for getting a polgara like character but both use material by a company called super genius games.
First is attaching an archetype to the sorceror from The Super Genius Guide to Divine Archetypes There you can take the the 'Wise' archetype trading out the sorcerors bloodline abilities for what is essencially 3/4 casting (like a bard) of healing/condition removal magic. I think that would be a very good fit for polgara.
Alternatively you can check out the super genius magus base class which is a full caster that lets you combine spell lists from different classes at a cost of spells being a higher level if they aren't on your 'primary' list. That could also work for polgara.
-My cousin should be okay, I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him. That way he can just kinda jump into the fray. He's quite clever for his age, but has a limited patience for confusing or complex things. Again, if this sparks up any particular advice for similar situations, feel free to cast it my way. :)
Something straight forward with a big ole sword is probably a good idea here. I would make the character for him, instead of giving him feats to choose from. You also may want to take a look at the begginer box and lay out the information in a similar way to what they do there for his character sheet.
-My aunt is still trying to decide if she wants to play at all, so I may have to get back to this later. She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me.
Mostly, this is all coming together for my cousin. He wants to play with my adult friends and I... not a particularly good mix. He's a good kid, I think he could benefit a great deal from playing, and I've always wanted to try DMing. Seems like the thing to do. :) Thanks in advance. <3
Its always great to play with kids new to the game. Their imaginations are fresh and everything is new and exciting to them. I commend you for putting in the work, and hopefully a few years down the road you will have a permanent addition to your gaming group (when he grows up enough to mix with your adult friends ofc). I firmly believe, a family that games together stays together, so I heartily approve of family game time.
Just wanted to end that debate over what your mom should play...
Spontaneous caster with a not too large spell list, with free cure spells, and various themed abilities to choose from? Oracle!!!11
Agreed, right here. And depending on the mystery selected, they can get access to some good wizard spells in addition to the clerical spells available. Remember that you are the GM and can do anything. Letting a level 1 character start out with Fireball would be crazy, but if you wanted by fiat to allow an Oracle access to, say, Magic Missile (perhaps even having her use the Expanded Arcana discovery for it or imposing some other restriction), then that's your call; as long as she remains somewhat balanced with the other party members, it shouldn't be much of an issue. But even without adjustment, I would say Oracle is the way to go.
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Just adding my 2 cents here.
Your Mom: If she wants to be 'powerful sorceress', but have some healing at the same time, why not homebrew a bloodline with her character in mind?
You don't have to start from scratch. Just pick the bloodline that most fits her character and swap out some powers/spells for some healing powers.
After all the point is to have fun, make something unique for your mom!
On your aunt, give her an companion what is a fairy/fae like being. For example, a sprite or a brownie. Again you will need to home-brew some things, but it could make the game more immerse for your aunt. (Add a comical voice to that companion for some laughs!)
Overall your game's feeling feels like that of a fairytale more so then a "normal" Pathfinder game, so throw out the "normal" rules and go with something more to your family's tastes.
On a final note, you can make your mom and aunt a level or 2 above your cousin. Give them the roles of the Sorceress Aunt(Your Mom) and the Fairy Godmother(Your Aunt), both looking after their young charge, a knight(Your Cousin). Remind them that they have to let their charge grow up and solve his own problems, but they can "step in" and help him along the adventure!
Happy Adventuring!
Just wanted to end that debate over what your mom should play...
Spontaneous caster with a not too large spell list, with free cure spells, and various themed abilities to choose from? Oracle!!!11
Just my opinion. But as someone who has read and enjoyed the books with Polgara, I think sorceres with the celestial bloodline is a slightly better fit. But it is not that big a deal. Mainly it is whatever keeps it simplest for new players.
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Arcane bloodline seems a better fit. She is always drawn having an owl in one hand, so an owl familiar seems like a good fit.
Just swap out some of the bonus spells for say CLWs or other simple healing spells. (aka no mass healing spells.)
or
Just give her Celestial bloodline's lv 1 power so she can heal. You may want to set it to affect a creature more then once a day to make it more flexible to use.
Arcane bloodline seems a better fit. She is always drawn having an owl in one hand, so an owl familiar seems like a good fit.
Just swap out some of the bonus spells for say CLWs or other simple healing spells. (aka no mass healing spells.)
or
Just give her Celestial bloodline's lv 1 power so she can heal. You may want to set it to affect a creature more then once a day to make it more flexible to use.
Polgara doesn't have a familiar. Over the centuries she got bored and lonely so learned to speak with birds just as a sorta hobby. People seem to think of owls as gentle and loving (they are not) so they draw her with owls to sell more books.
She is very closely associated with one of the gods. She and her father are his primary agents. So celestial seemed more appropriate to me.But like I said I don't think it is that big a deal, maybe she would like a familiar. Just keep it simple for someone learning. That is why I almost never alter anything from standard and only recommend using basic classes, powers, spells, etc... from the core book. One of the most daunting things for potential new players is the multitude of book, rules, and options. Keeping it down to only 1 book and even specific sections of that book can help keep down the overload.
Yeah ranger was one of the first characters I made and I enjoyed it a lot.Personally, for new players that like non casting, I always prefer to give them a Ranger.
A new players natural instinct is the Fighter so they just 'go in and hit things' but for new players that concept can be to the detriment of experiencing the game as a whole - they get in the mentality that killing is what the fighter does, everything else others can sort out. As a result, during non combat you risk them losing interest due to lack of things to do (2 skill points don't go far)
The Ranger has everything you could want for a new player. Give him a big 2h weapon and he can wade to the front and do scary damage especially against his Favoured Enemy. Or, bad guys in a tricky place? Not a problem, hand the Ranger a bow and he can be just as scary as he is with a 2h (hello switch hitter)
Then, outside of combat he has 6 skill points + Int to play with allowing him to scout ahead, sneak around, track monsters etc.
If the game goes long enough he even gets to try his hand at a spell or two and of course gets a pet!
The only disadvantage to the Ranger is less AC, but then, at low lvl he will likely match or even beat the fighters AC due to high Dex.
Oddly, I think the Fighter makes a much better char for experienced players, because the real fun from a Fighter comes from all the extra feats and making quite a specialist combatant which tends to need prety good knowledge of the game.
Finally, make sure you give a generous point distribution, at least 20. Personally I like to give 24 or 25 with the restriction that no stat can be dumped (so 10 prior to race modifier is minimum) thi is so you don't end up with everyone dumping Int and having a lack of skill points - I like new players to have plenty of skill points to ensure they can be involved in all the game has to offer
Rangers are great intro classes! They can tank and shoot, have lots of great skills...and very flexible skills, and slowly acquire lots of other class features, like bonus feats, spells, animal companion or party buffing, important build decision making (favored enemy), etc. etc.
New players - restrict the classes choices to spontaneous casting and do not allow summons or companions / familiars. Also, try to get them to choose "static" feats at first, meaning feats that do not need to be "activated" and are always active - thougness, or weapon focus, or iron will, etc. Restrict their decision array at first - you so not want to overwhelm them with options each round of combat.
Also, limit abilities that affect other players (at most one buff active at the same time) exeption made for healing spells. You want them to grasp what is already on their character sheet before having them grasp what is not, like the effects of a buff spell.
Mom: For magic, as already said, an oracle seems perfect for what she wants. Stay away form summons or companions. If she insist on the bird, find a way to let her interact/talk with animals (spells) without the burden to actually having to play two characters.
Cousin: I agree that a fighter is a difficult class to build and play if you do not want to be a one trick poney. A no-spell ranger archetype (skirmisher, trapper) could be nice and let him shine outside combat. If you can combine it with an archetype withouth animal companion , that would be good. A barbarian is also a good choice. In both case, be sure the character sheet is very clear on the circumstancials modifiers (rage, fav ennemy, etc.)
Aunt: Shapechanging is difficult, rule-wise. Maybe you could sell her a fey bloodline sorcerer with illusions (she seems to shapechange) and later let hey pick shapeshifting spells...
An easy way to introduce new player is to write down what they can do on cards for the first couple of game. Spells, but also skills and basic melee and ranged attack.
Okay, well, I can mostly only parrot people, 'cause they've done a great job, however:
-Any general advice for methods of making fights exciting and fun for such a wide age gap while still remaining challenging? I'd like to keep the risk real, but I don't think I could really kill any of them any time in the next 15 levels without being forced to eat boiled hay for a week.
1) use lots of tricks and make villains annoying and tricky (CMB-use)
2) environmental factors are awesome, but don't rely on your players getting that3) make sure that you hint often at things, even if it's "too much" information... no one likes to be left in the dark all the time
4) don't just come right out and tell them things (unless necessary)... no one likes to have the game described to them by one guy
5) lots of weaker enemies over fewer stronger ones
-My Mom immediately jumped on the idea of playing out her favorite fantasy character, 'Polgara' (see: boiled hay) from the Eddings' series (fantastic read if you haven't seen them before). She expressed that she would like to provide some healing, but also wants to be a 'powerful sorceress'. I've already explained to her that part of the fun is starting out a little underpowered and growing to be someone powerful and awesome, and she accepts that. The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts? Multiclassing from a healer into a sorcerer or something sounds a bit complicated for her.
The best ideas here are as others have said, either:
a) celestial bloodline sorceress who burns a feat on gaining access to a clerical domain (I'd actually break it into three feats: 1st-3rd level, 4th-6th level, and 7th-9th level; and instead of losing a spell to gain one of them, they gain those as extra spells... it's over-powered, but you're running a three-person game for newbies, so it's probably fine).b) oracle (from the APG; the mysteries chosen vary according to taste); in this scenario, however, keep in mind that she'll have some sort of "curse" or draw-back, but that's not too big a deal, if the proper one is chosen. One who speaks a weird language in battle can still shout and point and get her idea across, while one who is haunted is only slightly annoyed if she gets disarmed... and if she's more into spells, she won't worry about that too much anyway.
-My cousin should be okay, I've talked him into playing a fighter and plan to simplify things by just giving him a shortened list of feats to choose from and suggesting the best equipment for him. That way he can just kinda jump into the fray. He's quite clever for his age, but has a limited patience for confusing or complex things. Again, if this sparks up any particular advice for similar situations, feel free to cast it my way. :)
I've gotta parrot Ranger as a great option, just for the skills, to let him get into RP more. A rogue would also be pretty good and it would side-step the Ranger's focus on situational modifiers (Sneak Attack notwithstanding). Nonetheless, fighter is okay. Depending on his temperment barbarian could be cool, but it could also be just as much a one-trick-pony/kill-'em-all as a fighter tends to turn out to be.
-My aunt is still trying to decide if she wants to play at all, so I may have to get back to this later. She likes fairies, woodland things, and the idea of shapeshifting, so a druid or something with fae bloodlines seems pretty obvious, but I cannot be sure yet. Druids have such boring spell lists at early levels, so that worries me.
I'd skip the druid class, not because it's not great, nor because it's boring, but rather because of its complications. Instead, I might actually recommend letting her play a monster with down-graded HD (and possibly thus down-graded DCs for her abilities). Actually playing a nixie isn't really a bad idea, as they get some nifty spell-like abilities, have limited but useful shape-change (aquatic creatures), and are fairies who enjoy woodlands and waterways. It also allows her some unique tricks while limiting her power... but not too much limiting of her power. If you're curious, they're available in the Advanced Bestiary, which is available for free in the Paizo store. Seriously no charge.
The question of how she levels might be a bit trickier, but fey get great skills (6+), moderate BAB (thus a d8) and good reflex and will, so she'd kind of serve as a bard-like character. One other method of allowing her more "exciting" ways of leveling up, is granting her fey bloodline boons without granting her the spellcasting, or, even better, bardsong (which could be used underwater just by her) without the spell-casting (or vice-verse, but I'd recommend keep the music for iconic reasons, even if it's a little more complicated than ideal).
This could also be described as her being a "fairy god mother", as someone else mentioned earlier. Perhaps the way that people get together is that the fairy godmother (a guardian spirit of the young warrior) knows the wise and good sorceress (whose communed with the kind nature spirit in her learning sorceress powers) and introduces them by way of mutual acquaintance.
Other lower-powered fey creatures include the grig and the brownie.
Alternatively, she could just be a gnome or elf and be a druid, as has been suggested. :)
Mostly, this is all coming together for my cousin. He wants to play with my adult friends and I... not a particularly good mix. He's a good kid, I think he could benefit a great deal from playing, and I've always wanted to try DMing. Seems like the thing to do. :) Thanks in advance. <3
I love the cards idea. That might be best, actually!
Also, I highly favor using pre-published stuff but completely revamping it for your own purposes and rewriting the parts that don't work for you or your group. Fun times, those!
Some other things I just thought of, based off my own post above. Feel free to accept or ignore, at your option.
First: in reference to the fairy-godmother idea:
* bardic performance (specifically song) = every Disney fairytale ever (Black Cauldron being the noted exception).
Second: in reference to the position/power of a fairy-godmother compared to a first level/hit dice character:
* some eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil nasties by virtue of [ANCIENT ARTIFACT MACGUFFIN OF DOOOOOOOOM!] (tm) was able to steal and drain the fairy-godmother's power! Oh noes! Now she can't grant wishes or aid her chosen ward or protect her chosen forest home as she once could! Those particular little nasties aren't terribly powerful themselves (which is why she felt she could ignore their minor incursions in the past), but this artifact might doom the entire forest/hamlet/sacred lake if the heroes don't act fast!
Third: yet another alternative is an oracle that chooses druid spells instead of cleric ones. Not too unbalanced a class, simple and streamlined for a new player, and it grants several nifty possibilities. I don't know the full ramifications, yet, as I've not looked at it fully, but that was something I thought of as I was lying down last night.
EDIT: apparently, I'm not the first to come up with this idea!
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The problem is choosing what kind of caster. Witches and druids have more healing options, but I'm fairly certain she will prefer a more free-form caster and won't want to have to pick through a spell list every day. Thus, a sorcerer's casting method seems more likely. Any thoughts?
Spontaneous Caster (Witch Archtype)
Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart. Finally, a witch with this archtype associates her Charisma score with her spellcasting, not her intelligence.
A minor variant would be to replace intelligence as the spellcasting stat with Wisdom instead of Charisma.
Spontaneous Caster (Witch Archtype)
Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart. Finally, a witch with this archtype associates her Charisma score with her spellcasting, not her intelligence.
A minor variant would be to replace intelligence as the spellcasting stat with Wisdom instead of Charisma.
That's actually pretty cool!
Also, a note of correction before, it's not "advanced bestiary", it's "bonus bestiary".
Here's a link for you.
EDIT-BECAUSE-I-WASN'T-ACTUALLY-DONE-OOPS:
The PDF version is completely free and since you've got an account you don't have to give any more information than you've already given to make one, so I recommend it, if you haven't gotten it yet.
I recommend Rice Crispy Treats. Other than that, it's all good. :P
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You need 22 goblins, a golden chalice, a unicorn and a poisoned King.
The plot:
The Evil Witch/Queen/Priestess sends a gift to the King a golden Chalice. Upon drinking from the chalice the King falls ill. All of the Kings men leave to search for a cure.The Party:
The kings advisor tells the party that a unicorn must be found to heal the king.The Quest:
But the last unicorn in the kingdom was "captured" by goblins.
So the Heroes must fight their way to the goblin king and defeat him to free the unicorn and save the king.It's a simple set up but you can milk it for life.
Watch a Disney movie and steal the hell out of the plot.
As for the sorcerer healing, Celestial? Maybe
Kids aren't stupid but they are impatient...they're just like adult players only shorter and sober.
Agrees with the Fish.
Also go out of your way to entertain younger players with vivid descriptions. They aren't always used to using their imaginations.