HI I am making a cleric for Kingmaker; that will specialize in 2 roles. The first is being a de-buffer and the other is being a lying, sneaky, toad of an individual.
The latter is being accomplished by 1 level of infiltrating inquisitor with the conversion domain. That allows me to ignore my charisma and apply my wisdom twice to bluff, diplomacy and sense motive.
The de-buffing is being done ny the disease harm channeling, madness domain and spells.
The 2 problems I am running into is the last domain? Should I take chaos domain to force re-rolls, or the travel domain for the much needed movement and with the trade sub-domain I get more bonuses to my bluff, sense motive and diplomacy (1/2 my level)
The 2nd problem is that the party has turned from a mixed group of characters to all melee (monk, ranger, paladin). Does this pretty well nerf the de-buffing (where's my save or die casters when I need them)?
You advice would greatly help.
Well melee is relative here. Do they all plan on specializing in melee? Thi is an important question as all three of the classes mentioned can be quite good with a bow.
Who is your god? That'll change which domains you can have.
Sivanah has the madness domain, and isn't evil.
Groetus as well.
Neither give Travel.
If you want, you could use one the archetypes that gives up the second domain. Evangelist is nice, but it'll conflict with your de-buff desires. Personally, I've always thought buffs were better than de-buffs, but both can be fun.
Darkness is a very fun domain. Drop an Obscurring Mist around your enemies, and go to town since you have Blind-Fight!
Well melee is relative here. Do they all plan on specializing in melee? Thi is an important question as all three of the classes mentioned can be quite good with a bow.
It looks like none of them will focus on a bow.
As for a god, I am playing a themed cleric (the one that follows a philosophy rather than a particular god).
I do not think debuff is a good focus for the party you have. I suspect that you'll end up in a situation where your debuffs have little or no effect on the combats and you will be pressed to save your spells to heal the party members who are fighting.
Which is why buffing is a safer bet than debuffing.
But let me tell you, my witch just hit level 4, and debuffing is just suh-weet when it works.
would you say a witch is a better de-buffer than a cleric, or are they about even in that effect?
Also with a witch, I was always unimpressed with their spells, especially the high level ones. It seems the most spells that wizards and clerics have they lack. (excluding time stop). Am I wrong?
would you say a witch is a better de-buffer than a cleric, or are they about even in that effect?
Also with a witch, I was always unimpressed with their spells, especially the high level ones. It seems the most spells that wizards and clerics have they lack. (excluding time stop). Am I wrong?
Witches are the best debuffers period. They are one of the best classes in the game, if not the best.
would you say a witch is a better de-buffer than a cleric, or are they about even in that effect?
Also with a witch, I was always unimpressed with their spells, especially the high level ones. It seems the most spells that wizards and clerics have they lack. (excluding time stop). Am I wrong?
They have most of the good battlefield control spells, debuff spells, and their hexes are among the best class specific abilities in the game. They can leave a BBEG blinded, confused, -6 STR, -6 CON, -4 all saves, nauseated, (I could go on for a while, but you get the picture). They put any other debuffer to shame.
But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.
But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.
The nice thing is the Witch can do the save or die after the debuffing, and she can debuff things that beaters care about, like enemy AC and attack rolls.
But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.
That's why you should play a bard! They have some good debuffers spells and are a force multiplier.
But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.
Witches get a few save or die spells, eventually.
However, Evil Eye and Misfortune work for damn near about any situation.
Every time you land an Evil eye on a foe, you choose between AC, Attacks, Saves, or Skill checks for them to get penalties in. You can layer these on, as well.
Throwing misfortune in on top of that just adds insult to injury. Let me paint a picture of the typical first few rounds of combat that my witch goes through:
Surprise round: battlefield control spell (web or glitterdust), ID creature, tell party about.
Round 1: Misfortune Hex, Cackle, 5-ft step away from danger
Round 2: Evil Eye(-2 AC), Cackle, 5-ft step if necessary (If situation calls for it, have familiar pull a potion or wand from backpack and keep it at the ready)
Round 3: Fortune hex the party member who's proving the most effective, Cackle
Round 4: Misfortune Hex another target (if any), Cackle
So on and so forth.
The first creature, if it isn't blind or entangled, by round 2 must reroll all attacks, save, skill, or ability checks, and take the worse of the two. Whatever rolls you've Evil Eyed they will make at a -2 (the minus increases as you get to level 8 and beyond)
Having your familiar dig out wands or cure potions to hand to party members can help mitigate the action economy that you lose by having to Cackle to maintain your hexes.
But you are quite squishy, ever so much more than a cleric. So keep that in mind.
But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.That's why you should play a bard! They have some good debuffers spells and are a force multiplier.
Having played a bard, then played a witch, I can honestly say that my party members appreciated the Fortune hex far more than bardic music.
Having played a bard, then played a witch, I can honestly say that my party members appreciated the Fortune hex far more than bardic music.But if I slide the cleric over to the witch, I will still have the problem that the remainder of the party are all hand2hand and no one has save or die spells to take advantage of my de-buffing.That's why you should play a bard! They have some good debuffers spells and are a force multiplier.
With all the buffs to hit bards give, they won't need reroll :)
Throw in Gallant Inspiration, and you're gold.
a bard is definitely out, as I play one in another group. And while I love playing him, and his over -the -top personality, playing another will either being playing the same character twice, or will be a pale comparision to him. (He is a rude rhyming money grubber (think of a musical Quark (deep space 9 fan)).
a bard is definitely out, as I play one in another group. And while I love playing him, and his over -the -top personality, playing another will either being playing the same character twice, or will be a pale comparision to him. (He is a rude rhyming money grubber (think of a musical Quark (deep space 9 fan)).
Of course, the personality is whatever you make of it, but I understand you need mechanics and tools to work with the character.
Either the cleric or the witch would make a good Snidely-type. There are some witch hexes that can add to that character type during non-combat, such as Charm and Disguise.
I'm sure there are a lot of good cleric goodies, too, but I haven't built a cleric in Pathfinder, so it's kinda hard for me to compare.
For a de-buffing witch, which Patron do you find is the best?
Trickery seemed good. But anything better?
I like Shadow and Enchantment. Enchantment spells are all-or-nothing, so the debuff abilities of the witch really help out.