So, I'm loving the ninja. Still level 3, human, thinking of feats/tricks etc.
So far, have weapon finesse, TWF, and extra Ki. Vanishing trick too.
I'm really liking the pressure points and bleed tricks, as they just can really add to your attacks since they don't trade sneak attack dice, and it seems that pressure points doesn't have a limit? Kinda broken imo. Anyway!! :)
It seems the scout archetype is great for ninja especially with these tricks, and I'm also thinking if spring attack would be worth getting?
I'm not sure about what other feats I would be needing aside from the normal TWF stuff.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated from anyone with more experience than I in general, anyone who has played a ninja further into higher levels, or anyone who just has good ideas. Thanks! :)
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the scout archetype wouldn't work that well (that's if the ninja can use the scout archetype) as when you charge/move you only get one attack as with spring attack, you'll only get one attack, alright if you're going for a THW ninja/rouge but not for TWF.
Pressure Points and Bleeding Attack are really good for the combat. Since you're going to be in melee a lot consider getting the Shadow Clone trick 1d4 mirror images are useful avoiding damage(although may become completely useless after 10th level). Once you get Advanced tricks you'll get Invisible Blade first, Evasion, See the Unseen, Unbound Steps and Ghost Step seem fairly useful.
i'm not to sure if Forgotten Trick is viable due to the huge ki cost it has (2-3)
I wouldn't bother with Deadly Shuriken as Flurry of Stars is a lot better. Both cost 1 ki point, Deadly Shuriken throws 1 shuriken that'll let you increase damage by a few d6s ontop of your sneak attack(if you have it) where as Flurry of Stars lets you make more attacks and each attack can be a sneak attack(if you can make them)
and it's not a good idea to take the rouge talents to get powerful sneak/deadly sneak, best case(20th level with deadly sneak), you're looking at an average of 3+1/3(3.333) extra damage per attack(20 extra damage if ALL your attacks hit) and taking -2 on all of your attacks, and it cost you two ninja tricks to do it.
personally though, i feel that the ninja is incredibly powerful with just vanishing trick, to be able to set up flanks that much easier. damn. and to think that it only gets better at 10th level when you don't need to set up flanks, just remember to 5ft around so that the enemy doesn't know where you are
as for feats; dodge, light steps and nimble steps(these two are really good if you're going the scout as you'll be able to charge through some difficult terrain) and getting weapon focus is really helpful, anything to increase your attack bonus
you can take the scout archetype, but for what you want to do it is not ideal.
Scout is for people who need a flat-footed ennemy this works especially well with sap master feats.
TWF doesn't work well at all with Scout, as Skerek has mentioned.
If you want to go scout, go sap master, you'll do awesome damage and it's very simple play, go unarmed or sling.
If you want to go TWF or get multiple attacks per round, don't go scout.
Or do a hybrid.
the scout archetype wouldn't work that well (that's if the ninja can use the scout archetype) as when you charge/move you only get one attack as with spring attack, you'll only get one attack, alright if you're going for a THW ninja/rouge but not for TWF.
Pressure Points and Bleeding Attack are really good for the combat. Since you're going to be in melee a lot consider getting the Shadow Clone trick 1d4 mirror images are useful avoiding damage(although may become completely useless after 10th level). Once you get Advanced tricks you'll get Invisible Blade first, Evasion, See the Unseen, Unbound Steps and Ghost Step seem fairly useful.
i'm not to sure if Forgotten Trick is viable due to the huge ki cost it has (2-3)
I wouldn't bother with Deadly Shuriken as Flurry of Stars is a lot better. Both cost 1 ki point, Deadly Shuriken throws 1 shuriken that'll let you increase damage by a few d6s ontop of your sneak attack(if you have it) where as Flurry of Stars lets you make more attacks and each attack can be a sneak attack(if you can make them)
and it's not a good idea to take the rouge talents to get powerful sneak/deadly sneak, best case(20th level with deadly sneak), you're looking at an average of 3+1/3(3.333) extra damage per attack(20 extra damage if ALL your attacks hit) and taking -2 on all of your attacks, and it cost you two ninja tricks to do it.
personally though, i feel that the ninja is incredibly powerful with just vanishing trick, to be able to set up flanks that much easier. damn. and to think that it only gets better at 10th level when you don't need to set up flanks, just remember to 5ft around so that the enemy doesn't know where you are
as for feats; dodge, light steps and nimble steps(these two are really good if you're going the scout as you'll be able to charge through some difficult terrain) and getting weapon focus is really helpful, anything to increase your attack bonus
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Skerek. It seems that after the TWF/finesse/dodge/focus feats, I'll still have room for a couple more. Any recommendations? I see what you're saying about the scout. Though sometimes, especially if we do more than a couple encounters a day, ki may be running too low to use vanishing trick, or if they have some kind of detection, also bad. If I can't flank, I thought spring attack might be viable to at least be somewhat helpful in combat. Maybe just sitting back and throwing shuriken be better?
What do you think of the bomb tricks?
I just started playing a ninja myself ^_^ has turned out to be good fun, with Vanishing Trick and im learning to like Poisen Use. Personally, I'm looking forward to the Ninja's Assassinate ability at level 10.
My Ninja is level 3 atm, with Weapon Finesse and Two-Weapon Fighting. I'm going the TWF build, with Dodge and Mobiliy planned for extra AC. I'm still debating what other feats would go good with this class, and I'd love to trade the No Trace Ability for Evasion but all in all it's working well for me.
Multi-classing into a class that has Evasion might be a good idea imho. There's no feat that decreases amount of Ki your tricks use (like there is for the Gunfighter's Grit) so i'm not aiming for level 20 with the ninja. Might multiclass into Shadow-dancer or Monk.
Personally, I think the bomb skills might be good when combined with poisen, but they're uses will depend on what materials you have available ahead of time. I would prefer going with the shurikens and/or the acrobatics/unarmed strike trick chains, as i can see those being generally more useful on the whole.
you can take the scout archetype, but for what you want to do it is not ideal.
Scout is for people who need a flat-footed ennemy this works especially well with sap master feats.TWF doesn't work well at all with Scout, as Skerek has mentioned.
If you want to go scout, go sap master, you'll do awesome damage and it's very simple play, go unarmed or sling.
If you want to go TWF or get multiple attacks per round, don't go scout.
Or do a hybrid.
Thanks Richard. Sap Master looks super awesome for Ninja. Does this mean that at level 5 one attack would do 6d6 +12 on top of weapon damage?
That's super great.
Could I go TWF with sap master?
Kablam!
Thanks Richard. Sap Master looks super awesome for Ninja. Does this mean that at level 5 one attack would do 6d6 +12 on top of weapon damage?That's super great.
Could I go TWF with sap master?
From what I can tell, Bleed and Pressure points works with the extra dice provided by Sap Master, potentially breaking it.
Kablam!
Sap master is very careful in it's wording. It doesn't seem to change the absolute number of SA dice, it just lets you roll them twice and add together the results.
So in your example, you would do 3d6 SA (rolled twice and added together) +6 for sap adept.
I usually like to add in improved unarmed strike and knockout artist into the mix for +3 more damage to your above example.
If you eventually want to leaverage TWF and sap master, you're going to have to go down the shatter defenses pathway, and make them shaken using the enforcer feat (enforcer shakens them as a free action, shatter defenses makes them flat-footed and finally sap master applies for the second attack.)
Otherwise sap master is mostly useful for one charge attack.
prototype00
Sap master is very careful in it's wording. It doesn't seem to change the absolute number of SA dice, it just lets you roll them twice and add together the results.
So in your example, you would do 3d6 SA (rolled twice and added together) +6 for sap adept.
I usually like to add in improved unarmed strike and knockout artist into the mix for +3 more damage to your above example.
If you eventually want to leaverage TWF and sap master, you're going to have to go down the shatter defenses pathway, and make them shaken using the enforcer feat (enforcer shakens them as a free action, shatter defenses makes them flat-footed and finally sap master applies for the second attack.)
Otherwise sap master is mostly useful for one charge attack.
prototype00
Hm, not quite as exciting when put that way ;) I suppose it's better at 10 with invisible blade, then don't need to use the shatter defenses tree? or a full attack while flanking is also ok I guess.
Hm. Forgot to mention that the DM decided to give me an Ancestral Relic (3.5 feat) since he liked the character's backstory. Wakizashi. Anyway, given that and the TWF stuff I've started already, maybe better to not go down the sap master tree.
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Hm. Forgot to mention that the DM decided to give me an Ancestral Relic (3.5 feat) since he liked the character's backstory. Wakizashi. Anyway, given that and the TWF stuff I've started already, maybe better to not go down the sap master tree.
Someone needs to do a comprehensive Ninja Guide.
Maybe in a year after playing mine all the way through, I'll be able to do one if no one has yet :)
you can take the scout archetype, but for what you want to do it is not ideal.
How exactly can you take the rogue scout archetype? Last I knew, it was rogue only. Is this a houserule thing?
How exactly can you take the rogue scout archetype? Last I knew, it was rogue only. Is this a houserule thing?you can take the scout archetype, but for what you want to do it is not ideal.
the ninja is a rogue alternate class. Alt classes are like really big archetypes, so they can take their base class archetypes as long as you have the class features to give up. Because Scout loses Uncanny Dodge/Improved UD and a ninja has both you can take the scout archetype. This only doesn't work with PFS play b/c they are super mega RAW only.
Sap master stuff isn't restricted to unarmed strikes or blunt objects. There's the bludgeoner feat, which lets you use any weapon.
The big problem with sap master is that it's multiple feats invested and it only applies to something like half the enemies you come across. The rest are immune.
This thread ended up having lots of ideas on dex based and strength based builds.