as the title suggests, i was on my way to speedway thinking about this debate about trolls and regeneration and death effects from awhile back on these boards and then i thought....what about death knell? that is a second level cleric/inquisitor,witch spell. Is the spell Death knell a death effect? therefore does it qualify for the special rules of death effects simply because it has death in the spell school brackets? if so then it is a second level spell that is powerful enough to shut down a fifth level spell as an after effect.
what are your thoughts... is this what was intended? is this RAW or RAI neither, a glitch?
not terribly interested in house rules sorry.
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Death Knell
School necromancy [death, evil]; Level cleric 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration instantaneous/10 minutes per HD of subject; see text
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
You draw forth the ebbing life force of a creature and use it to fuel your own power. Upon casting this spell, you touch a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points. If the subject fails its saving throw, it dies, and you gain 1d8 temporary hit points and a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength. Additionally, your effective caster level goes up by +1, improving spell effects dependent on caster level. This increase in effective caster level does not grant you access to more spells. These effects last for 10 minutes per HD of the subject creature.
Raise Dead
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 5
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp), DF
Range touch
Target dead creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none, see text; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be raised). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised. A spellcasting creature that doesn't prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.
A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current HD. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature's equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
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Yep Death affect. However it is second level while the raise dead spell is 5th. Making the assumption that it works like darkness and light spells. The higher level spell wins.
Also Raise Dead brings them up to hit points equal to their HD. So death knell would not work since they need to be -1 HP for it to work.
Yep Death affect. However it is second level while the raise dead spell is 5th. Making the assumption that it works like darkness and light spells. The higher level spell wins.
Also Raise Dead brings them up to hit points equal to their HD. So death knell would not work since they need to be -1 HP for it to work.
if you finished someone with a death knell, that is what i meant, as a way to keep them from being easily brought back.
primarily i was interested in where it might have fit into a previous argument regarding a troll and a psychopomp with immunity to death effects.but i am curious if that was what was intended with the spell, to be able to prevent raise dead, because it seems like it is able to do that.
now i am working on an arena in which a participation requirement is to sign an agreement to work through their own price gouger priests in the event of accidental death or otherwise. i was going to use summoned cacodaemons that would pop out of the drain grates to gobble up the souls of the fallen, but the hinderance to raises seems minor.
now i think the weaponry will be enchanted with the death knell effect, or perhaps imps with wands. still looking for fun ideas.
if so then it is a second level spell that is powerful enough to shut down a fifth level spell as an after effect.
what are your thoughts... is this what was intended? is this RAW or RAI ...?
Yes, Death knell is one of the earlier magical ways to stop someone from being Raised. Animating someone as a skeleton or zombie is the next way to stop Raising. Stopping someone from being raised nonmagically is easy, just cut out something vital like a heart, brain or maybe just the throat.
While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life.
Stopping Resurrection is harder unfortunately.