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Considering the previews for next week's season finale, will there be much of a farm left to stay at anyway?Nope. In the main storyline, they eventually leave it. And a whole lot more action takes place at their next digs. You'll see plenty of that in Season 3, as they've already cast one of the primary characters for that part of the story.
Oh yes they did! I was worried that aspect of the original story arc was not going to come into play.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Also, what was up with the zombie visions Shane had before rising?
For a brief moment, I had hopes that Shane's anger at being betrayed and lust for revenge would result in him returning as some new type of pissed off, moderately intelligent zombie. He'd then gather up a herd and come knocking on Hershel's door and everyone would say "holy shit, is that Shane?"
And Shane would respond:
Which, from the zombie perspective, is an epic burn.
1. T-Dog had a line! Go T-Dog.
If I were IronE Singleton, I'd have me a nice sit-down with my agent. Sure I'm on a successful TV show, but damn, dude, why do I have to be the Bell-hop?
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Also, what was up with the zombie visions Shane had before rising?
Think of it as the horde's version of a college Freshman Orientation - except with more blood and guts and less this is how you find your classroom.
And Shane would respond:
"NGHHGG GRRRNNGHH"
Whoa, now! There are kids on these boards. Watch the language.
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These people need to sit down and think: What would Al Swearengen and Big Dan Doherty do?
Or Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo!
On the virus - it doesn't need to be airborne or come from scratches or the water table. Those idiots have been stabbing and bashing the
undead with their mouths open - it's just like plunging a toilet - rule number one, shut your mouth, you don't want that shit getting in there.
Wow. Just caught up last night, and it seems that the last few episodes are all trying to top the previous one. I haven't read the comics, but could tell something was going to happen between Rick & Shane, but just did not expect what happened. Wow, again.
There's been supposition by some fans of the show that...
...the way they portrayed Shane's death, that he might have actually been forcing Rick to kill him...i.e., he let Rick kill him. That goes against how Shane is portrayed in the comics, but I kind of like the open possibility of it.
If you think it through, he'd already had his throwdown with Rick. They beat each other up. Rick essentially won that fight by default...and all in the course of saving Shane's life from the zombies attacking him on the bus. So, he had that conflict raging inside of him. Meanwhile, he's still convinced that Rick can't protect Lori and Carl. So, he forces his hand. He makes Rick deal with a hard choice. He forces Rick to kill him, thereby giving Rick the exact experience and hardening that he'll need to keep his family safe...especially after Shane lies dead.
Additionally, Shane forced Rick into that situation not simply by luring him out into the field in search of Randall. He did so by actively eliminating the most recent threat Rick allowed into their lives...i.e., he killed Randall. That's one last act of Shane trying to protect Lori and Carl. And it's something he knew he couldn't completely get away with. Daryl's an excellent woodsman and tracker. Shane's part in it would be figured out eventually. But purposefully bloodying his own nose and releasing Randall allowed Shane to put in motion all the things he'd need to put Rick in the final position of having to kill Shane.
In the meantime, it's been evident for awhile now that Shane knew he couldn't co-exist with Rick in the group. He was either going to leave everyone behind (which he mentioned a couple of times)...or, he would need to permanently check out and die. And, if his death could serve the greater purpose of ensuring a) no more Randall to threaten the group, b) no more having to live without Lori and Carl being "his," and c) no more wishy-washy Rick in terms of avoiding the hard decisions necessary to protect everyone, that would be Shane's ultimate sacrifice...one last act of penance or whatever...and, in some ways, even a repayment for Rick saving his life from the zombies rather than leaving him for dead.
Now, do I believe that's what Shane intended? No. I think in his demented mind (which was deteriorating more and more), he fully believed he could get away with it. He could kill Rick, blame it on something else. Blame Randall's death on something else. And he'd convince Lori and Carl to accept him again as the husband/father-figure in their lives. But...
...and there has to be a but...
...you've also got to figure that Shane had the drop on Rick in that field. His plan worked perfectly. And, in the end, Shane delayed. He couldn't bring himself to quickly and cleanly kill his friend. Just like when he had the opportunity to shoot Rick in the woods when they were off searching for Sophia, and then Dale saw him with Rick in his sights. So, when push came to shove, who actually had the guts to follow through on the tough decision? It wasn't Shane. He couldn't pull the trigger when he had the opportunity right in front of him. Instead, it was Rick who took matters into his own hands and eliminated the single greatest threat to the safety and continuation of his family.
Regardless, from a storytelling angle, I appreciate the many ways that scene and the circumstances surrounding it...and leading up to it...can be interpreted. Shane is either a deeply flawed, tragic human being who found redemption in the end by sacrificing himself for a greater good. Or, he's a despicable villain who despite his clever plan and superiority over his ultimate victim, still fell in the end as good once again triumphed. Either interpretation is equally valid...and equally cool...in my book. I'm eager to see where things go next. And I'm happy that Shane's character served such an excellent purpose in the context of the overall story.
I'll also say this: actor John Bernthal did an unbelievable job of bringing depth to the character of Shane. He made every scene in every episode where he appeared into something powerfully compelling. I hope he gets to come back from time to time in flashbacks from before the apocalypse.
What I don't get is Shane's plan. If the plan was to blame Randall for shooting Rick then Shane snapped his neck, shouldn't Shane have led Rick to Randall's body? Instead he takes him to in view of the house? Doesn't make any sense.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What was the deal with Lori having her talk with Shane? Seems like to me she manipulated him into a lot of this.
The plot required Lori to generate pathos with Shane prior to his death to make it more meaningful to the audience. Given that Lori's sole function is to move the plot and not to have any defining goals or personality, she had no choice but to talk with Shane.
Next week, Lori will engage in hand to hand combat with the horde of zombies immediately after telling everyone else that they need to dig a tunnel to China and avoid any phyiscal contact with the walkers. Meanwhile, Carl walks by holding an assault rifle, three grenades, and a raw steak and shouts "Bye, Mom, I'm going to pick flowers in the zombie infested woods." Lori nods, and immediately asks Andrea why she wasn't watching Carl.
Ultimately, Lori will be bitten, but not killed, and we will spend all of Season 3 with Rick trying to decide if he should kill Lori while everyone else looks for Carl. In the season cliffhanger, we will learn that Carl and Lori are immune to becoming zombies, but that any cure based on their dna also induces the same level of stupidity and poor decision making displayed by them. Rick will spend 2-3 episodes wondering if he should distribute the cure or just kill himself already.
Favorite quote from the internets at large: "there are crackheads with better parenting skills than Lori."
What was the deal with Lori having her talk with Shane? Seems like to me she manipulated him into a lot of this.
Personally, I think that was Lori trying to make some kind of appeal for peace between Shane and Rick. She was still trying to work out a way where everyone could go on living side by side without hard feelings. And she wanted to apologize for what she felt she allowed to happen between her and Shane. More than anyone else, she felt like she understood why Shane thought the way he did. And, she felt responsible for it...
Also, if you believe Shane intentionally allowed Rick to kill him, you could view Lori's conversation with Shane as the reason he came to that crossroads and chose that path. Or, if you believe Shane is an especially selfish, villainous sort, that conversation with Lori was a reminder to him of how she felt about him before Rick's return. And thus, it could have served as the catalyst for driving Shane into setting up Rick's murder. In the end, however, he just couldn't follow through on it. Something made him hesitate. And Rick took advantage of it. He had to...
And, either way, that moment in Season 2 will be a huge turning point for Rick's character. He'll now be forced to deal with the aftermath of Shane's actions and what he had to do to counter them. He'll have to explain it to his son. He'll have to explain it to the rest of the group, who may start to lose faith in Rick's leadership (especially Andrea who favored Shane more than anyone else). And that whole experience will shape how Rick deals with future confrontations with the living as opposed to the dead.
Nice analysis, Neil, although I have to side with your take. Shane didn't want to die, and didn't want Rick to kill him. He just wanted a chance to kill Rick mano-on-mano, and Rick, smartly so, wouldn't give him that. That's why he hesitated. His plan actually didn't go perfectly. I believe he wanted to shoot it out, and when things weren't going how he envisioned them to be, he became confused and didn't know what to do. Rick saw that, knew what he had to do, and took advantage of it, proving, as you pointed out, that he had the mettle Shane thought he didn't.
Now, next week looks like it's going to be a shoot 'em up fun episode. Will anyone else die? My Magic 8 Ball says Yes. Of course, if I was leading that group, I'd get everyone upstairs, board up the downstairs quick, and see if you can hunker down and let them pass, just like they did on the highway. Of course, Carl would decide it was a good time to go wandering, Lori would chase after him, and everything would go to hell anyway.
You gotta figure they'd go for the cows, too...not just the humans living in the house, though. That farm will be overrun in short order. And it's going to be one glorious season finale.
I gotta say that as much as like Robert Kirman's comic, I kinda liken him to George Lucas. He's got this great idea, this wonderful premise and he does a decent enough job with it. But he's lacking in the story/dialogue department.
I think the best thing he ever did was let other writers become involved. The AMC series is much better than the comic. It's just got way more depth.
Time for a good old fashioned zombie culling. No offense, Aberzombie. ;)
Allow me to introduce myself: I'm Mr. Aberzombie's legal counsel......
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Still waiting for an episode showcasing a day-in-the-life of a walker
Apparently you missed the entire series The Osbournes. It's a story about a walker and the family who refuses to acknowledge that he's dead. He continuously shuffles about and moans incoherently, but the family just thinks he's old and cranky.
Interesting theory about Shane wanting to die. Would it be in the realm of possibility that the zombie virus/bacteria/fungi/curse causes those infected to seek their own deaths, subconsciously? I remember reading somewhere about parasites that do this to insects.
I'd like to see Rick acknowledge that people like Daryl and Shane are enormously beneficial to have in the group and are also easily manipulated to his desires. That would be a dark but interesting character growth for Rick.
That's exactly what happens in the comic. Rick starts to assess individual members of the group and ranks their importance.
Half-time for the season finale right now.
So, so much hate for commercials! grr!
:P
-S
Ok I didn't check the comics and all that, whats with
Also sad by the ending implication that they are gonna move from farm to prison. I was hoping for zombie road trip for a season.
Nice show overall though. hope next season comes soon!
-S
I'm disappointed in who died.. I mean.. who were those two anyway? I honestly don't remember them being around much. Did they ever have a speaking line at all?
I only learned the dude's name from The Talking Dead after the show. (the en memoriam for the zombies was rather hilarious though :p)
I'm not in favor of any particular one of the main cast dying (cept maybe the head shaved wench, after her attitude at the end of this show) but.. just disappointed no one who mattered got the axe.
I understand in a show like this there will be some meaningless deaths, but with the 2 bajillion zombies attacking the farm it was kinda sad that no one who mattered got bit.
Bummer.
-S
What I want to know is where to get Hershel's magic shotgun of unending shots. I swear he got off a couple of dozen shots before they showed him reloading at all. lol
Shotgun of Neverending Ammo? lol :)
Alot of them seemed to have that, attached to "plot hook, out of ammo now".
I find it amusing that no one's ever mentioned ammo much- not even after blowing throug a few million rounds at the Barn.
I can't remember what RPG I was reading where it said to track ammo religiously or just have them run out when drama suggested would be a good time..
looks like the writers were going by that suggestion though :)
(not to mention gasoline.. they'e been driving instead of walking everytime they went 30 yards all season..)
-S
p.s. good point Wolf.
edited: spelling sucks.
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I thought the kid (Jimmy?) in the RV was pretty pathetic. He pulled up to help Rick and Carl and then slowly walked to the door of the RV, stared at the horde busting down the door, and then just stood there as they grabbed him. There had to be another way out. Alternatively, he should have stayed at the driver seat and drove off as soon as rick and Carl were on top.
Also, I am kind of getting sick of stealth ninja zombies in wide open spaces (like the one that grabbed Patricia or killed Dale).
Edit: All in all it was a good finale. I was hoping Carol would have bit the dust.
Apparently, one of the side effects of the infection is the complete loss of peripherial vision. Also, geographic memory loss. (Cmon, Herschel and his family dont recall that there is a huge prison right there, less than 500-1000 yards from where they are camping?)
I really like that they explained how all of the zombies hit the farm. Makes sense and feels like the world is connected.
I also liked it that they revealed the CDC secret from season 1.
Rick did a bad job of explaining what happenned with him and Shane to everyone. All he had to say was "Shane tried to kill me, and I killed him." End of story, nothing else matters.
I see Rick losing leadership of the group if he continues being authoritarian, and especially after his poor explanation of events between himself and Shane.
I don't believe Shane sacrificed himself for the good of the group, that's the exact opposite of his character. I believe he didn't have the forethough into how hard it would be to kill his best friend, froze in the field, and needed Rick to be a threat to shoot him.
I was also wondering about Hershell's rifle. I figured after a while it must have been a rifle, not a shotgun, since shotguns have only 6-8 rounds usually (and that wasn't a combat shotgun). Hollywood!
The best quote was from Hershell, regarding Jesus and raising the dead "I just thought he had something else in mind.". lol.
I thought the season finale rocked and I'm really looking forward to a more action packed season 3.
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I just started watching this show at beginning of this season (or is it half-season?) when the opened the barn.
Although I can understand Lori's guilt and motivations, she basically forced Rick to kill Shane. She is very weak mentally and can't even keep track of Carl. When she recoiled from Rick after he told her about killing Shane was absolutely disgusting, and I think that drove Rick over the edge.
Carl. I hate this kid. Good actor though, since he's selling the annoying kid who keeps f!*$ing up and doesn't get anything. Although that's just kids in general I guess.
Shane's attitude was terrible all of this season. I also understand the my way or the highway mentality, but in this Zombieland, I don't think it's possible to have an attitude like that. Rick going down that path is also a troubling sign. He obviously lost it.
Daryl is very interesting. I'm not really sure why, but he respects Rick, even when he's doing his lone wolf thing in the middle of the season. After Daryl comes to grip with this "they are all infected" thing, he'll still follow Rick. And he doesn't seem to be the type to like being the loyal lackey type. Daryl seemed pretty resigned to leave again at night before he heard Patricia crying out.
Poor Andrea. She's a badass that nobody appreciates. She apparently goes all night and all day without rest and was still able to fight and run until near the end. Lori scolding her in the middle of the season was harsh, but now I see it was completely misplaced.
Poor Herschel. He just started accepting reality and opening up to the group when this happens. And he was still backing Rick before Rick's over the top speech. I think he was going to kill himself if Rick left with Carl.
Maggie is hot, that is all.
I really loved how random it was for all those zombies got to the farm. I haven't read the comics, but it seemed random, and that was horrifically hilarious.
Don't know what to think of the prison. Annoying that it seems like NOBODY remembered there was a prison there. I'd thought Rick might have since he's a cop, and Herschel might have since he lives in the area.
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Annoying that it seems like NOBODY remembered there was a prison there. I'd thought Rick might have since he's a cop, and Herschel might have since he lives in the area.
In all fairness, to the folks who have an issue with no one knowing about the prison being there. Do you know of every prison within 50 or so miles of your home? I know of 2 within that radius from where I live, but I did not know of one of them until about 5 years ago (and I had been here for 8 years at that point). In this day and age I am sure there is probably at least one more; prisons are big business after all.
Rick is a cop, but not from this area, and he is a county cop as well (from a different county), so it is not surprising that he does not know about it.
Additionally, they had been fleeing down back roads (translate to 2 lane low traffic roads). It is entirely possible that the folks form the area may have know of the existence of the prison, but may no realize how close they are due to the route they took to get there.
Besides, would a prison really be on the top of your list as a place where you would want to hole up? Would it be something most people would really consider, or even think of as a possibility, right off the bat?