"House" Rules to control Wizard Power


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They are dependent on an item which is valuable and easy to sell on the blackmarket. So, they need to guard it. This item is made of something fragile, like paper, and capable of being accidentally burnt/water damaged/etc. This item is also heavy and, as the wizard gains levels, he may need several such items - impacting encumberance.


The ultimate way to nerf wizards is to not let them craft anything, at least initially. We should also make it fairly complicated and waste time and money in game for them to make anything as well as taking up feats for specific items they want to create. These feats should only be allowed to be taken at certain levels but we should be nice enough to let them take them as their "bonus feats" even though we should possibly reconsider those. We should also tie crafting items to skills that are only useful for crafting and nothing else, but that may be going to far. Maybe we can allow them to use the same skill they use to identify other spells as a substitute since no wizard will actually take that skill. Also, as an added nerf we should limit the number of types of magic items a person can wear/use. This may have some negative effects on other classes, but it will be a needed addition to ensure that Wizards do not become overbearing.


AM WIZURD SOUND LIKE BARBARIAN BECAUSE AM DUMPING CHARISMA STAT.

AM GENIUS THINKING BUT STUPID TALKING.

SILLY BARBARIAN.


AM WIZURD wrote:
SILLY BARBARIAN.

TRIX FOR WIZARDS.


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THAT IT, CASTY AM JUST JUMP TO TOP OF BARBARIAN SMASH LIST. RIGHT BEHIND DEMIPLANE.

BARBARIAN WANT SMASH DEMIPLANE BAD. IT BE AWESOME.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Should this not be in House rules?

{whispers} Pretend you are Sir Attenborough narrating a documentary on the behavior of Intertoobzicus munchkineen.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Should this not be in House rules?
{whispers} Pretend you are Sir Attenborough narrating a documentary on the behavior of Intertoobzicus munchkineen.

I can't.... it would harm me.


AM BARBARIAN DEMONSTRATE WHY AM NERFY WIZURD.

AM DUMPING CHARISMA STAT SO AM ALWAYS SMASH BY BARBARIAN. SMASH BY BARBARIAN NOT GOOD FOR SUPER GODLY POWER.

THAT GENIUS THINKING PROOF. Q.E.D.


Epic Meepo wrote:

Well played, ciretose. Well played. :)

As for the topic on hand, here's a nerf I've always applied to wizards in my game: they have to actually choose what spells they prepare before the encounter starts, instead of just automatically getting whatever one specific spell they need to win the encounter.

Epic Meepo - are you eric morton from VA that went to TJHSS&T by any chance?

Shadow Lodge

AM BARBARIAN wrote:

IF CASTY HAVE SOOOO MUCH SMART, WHY AM CASTY SOUND LIKE BARBARIAN?

AM YOU DUMP INT AGAIN? SILLY CASTY.

That's just Mialee. She's the....special case...


Why do we even have wizards in the first place when sorcerers can do many of the same things and are balanced?

Grand Lodge

Backwards compatibility.

The Exchange

Lathiira wrote:

As an additional means of controlling these out-of-control wizards, I propose that none of them understand the proper manner of wearing armor. In addition, they should only have skills with a few sub-par, rudimentary weapons. Say, no more than five or so. Coupled with a feeble hit die and all of the other adjustments above, that should rein them in quite well.

Now, having said that, I think we may have overdone things a bit. So let's throw them a bone. Every so often they should gain a bonus ability that reflects their increased understanding of magic. We'll start them off at first level with an ability to force magic into fragile parchment for later use. Then, let's say around the time they can finally comprehend dispel magic, we'll let them gain another ability of similar nature. To avoid going too far, they can only pick certain abilities, which are called 'feats', that continue in this trend. They can learn to place magic into other objects, or to modify their spells in limited ways. That's it. Hmm, let's also add the option to be able to prepare an extremely limited number of spells without that heavy tome they're forced to carry, but they've got to choose exactly which spells they can do this with, and it's got to be a small number. Say, equal to their ability score modifier?

Not quite right. Let them get to make that same choice again every, oh, five levels after that. Not too often, we don't want to have to go through this nerfing process again. How's that sound?

Are you seriously suggesting that Wizards be once again restricted to the use of the Dagger alone? My NPC Wizard uses ninja stars and blowguns with a Ninja Cultural Template. What will he do? Class them as a thrown object like a rock?


yellowdingo wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that Wizards be once again restricted to the use of the Dagger alone? My NPC Wizard uses ninja stars and blowguns with a Ninja Cultural Template. What will he do? Class them as a thrown object like a rock?

You're right. Wizards should be forced to memorize their spells, then scribe them on scrolls, then use each scroll to Craft Paper Airplane, and throw it at the target.

In close combat, he can use a paper scroll to do 2d6-12 dmg paper cuts. Just beware his arch nemesis, a cranky housecat.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

TJ Rowing wrote:
Epic Meepo - are you eric morton from VA that went to TJHSS&T by any chance?

Yes, but I came for the sports.

The Exchange

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that Wizards be once again restricted to the use of the Dagger alone? My NPC Wizard uses ninja stars and blowguns with a Ninja Cultural Template. What will he do? Class them as a thrown object like a rock?

You're right. Wizards should be forced to memorize their spells, then scribe them on scrolls, then use each scroll to Craft Paper Airplane, and throw it at the target.

In close combat, he can use a paper scroll to do 2d6-12 dmg paper cuts. Just beware his arch nemesis, a cranky housecat.

I was going to go with Wizard uses wish to create moon sized roll of sticktape so that when the tape is pulled from the roll - x-rays are unleashed bathing the planet in a life killing energy burst but what ever...


Epic Meepo wrote:
TJ Rowing wrote:
Epic Meepo - are you eric morton from VA that went to TJHSS&T by any chance?
Yes, but I came for the sports.

Hey- this is Brian Bedner. Anywhere I can reach you directly?


Wizards and caster in general are not overpowered. This happens only when GM can't handle magic sistem, or to player with "silly build" all damage and AC.
I think fighter now is the only one that could have this problem, but let's think about party and not solo encounter. With the help of an ally he can do his work.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

TJ Rowing wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:
TJ Rowing wrote:
Epic Meepo - are you eric morton from VA that went to TJHSS&T by any chance?
Yes, but I came for the sports.
Hey- this is Brian Bedner. Anywhere I can reach you directly?

My email address at Hotmail is d20fan.


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yellowdingo wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that Wizards be once again restricted to the use of the Dagger alone? My NPC Wizard uses ninja stars and blowguns with a Ninja Cultural Template. What will he do? Class them as a thrown object like a rock?

Take throw anything, cast enlarge person and bull strength and throw halfings...Pro-fish-ent-ly. Tier Fishy!!!!!


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How much cool would Gandalf be it he had done that? Think about it.


I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?


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Remmir Ffom wrote:

I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?

Because the OP thinks that the rules are being ignored by people, and thats why wizards are seen as a god class.


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Remmir Ffom wrote:

I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?

He is obviously a fan of the show.


Hahaha, I love these "house" rules. Sigh, someone should publish these someday.

Liberty's Edge

Vindicator wrote:
Hahaha, I love these "house" rules. Sigh, someone should publish these someday.

I know, right?


Remmir Ffom wrote:

I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?

Some of us are squatting in a rope trick pocket dimension until this housing crisis is over.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Remmir Ffom wrote:

I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?

Because the OP thinks that the rules are being ignored by people, and thats why wizards are seen as a god class.

Surely not.

I think someone brought up an excellent point, about how they really have one stat that ties into all their offensive abilities, and how Over Powering that is.

While were making it so the wizard has to use the average of his intelligence, strength, and charisma scores I think we should redress this, because... well... we have a problem.

Ive seen these.... fighters... who have ALL their abilities tied into strength! Thats right, no reliance on silly things like dexterity, wisdom, or charisma. Every time they up their strength their combat maneuver bonuses get bigger! And they hit more often! And HARDER.

Seriously, its threatening to break my game. WAT I DOZ TEH FIX?


Grey Mage wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Remmir Ffom wrote:

I just noticed this...

Why is just "House" in quotations in the subject line?

Because the OP thinks that the rules are being ignored by people, and thats why wizards are seen as a god class.

Surely not.

I think someone brought up an excellent point, about how they really have one stat that ties into all their offensive abilities, and how Over Powering that is.

While were making it so the wizard has to use the average of his intelligence, strength, and charisma scores I think we should redress this, because... well... we have a problem.

Ive seen these.... fighters... who have ALL their abilities tied into strength! Thats right, no reliance on silly things like dexterity, wisdom, or charisma. Every time they up their strength their combat maneuver bonuses get bigger! And they hit more often! And HARDER.

Seriously, its threatening to break my game. WAT I DOZ TEH FIX?

You must start a new thread, this thread is to discuss the horrible brokenness of the Wizard class and how to "house" rule it to be more balanced with the other classes.


JMD031 wrote:
Grey Mage wrote:


Ive seen these.... fighters... who have ALL their abilities tied into strength! Thats right, no reliance on silly things like dexterity, wisdom, or charisma. Every time they up their strength their combat maneuver bonuses get bigger! And they hit more often! And HARDER.

Seriously, its threatening to break my game. WAT I DOZ TEH FIX?

You must start a new thread, this thread is to discuss the horrible brokenness of the Wizard class and how to "house" rule it to be more balanced with the other classes.

Wizards are so broken that they overpower the Paizo messageboards. One way to fix this would be to allow Fighters to be discussed in Wizard threads.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

We need to start introducing creatures that are immune to anything a wizard can cast or at least highly resistant.

Then the wizard could use feats to reduce the penalties for casting against these resistant creatures.


dulsin wrote:

We need to start introducing creatures that are immune to anything a wizard can cast or at least highly resistant.

Then the wizard could use feats to reduce the penalties for casting against these resistant creatures.

Are you sure about that? I mean it seems perfectly reasonable to me that a wizard should have to

A) overcome magic resistance first
B) allow the creature to make it saving throw.
C) after it makes it's save then deal with any types of resistance it may have to further knock down any damage the all powerful mage may have dealt.
D) allow feats like evasion and improved evasion so that at least some classes will be almost completely immune to a wizards deific like cosmic power.

While at the same time please make sure that the fighter types can do damage at least into the low 90's-100's on critical hits that way they won't feel bad when the wizard does something special like conjure a mount instead of having to walk.

but maybe it's just me?

Scarab Sages

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Steven Tindall wrote:

While at the same time please make sure that the fighter types can do damage at least into the low 90's-100's on critical hits that way they won't feel bad when the wizard does something special like conjure a mount instead of having to walk.

but maybe it's just me?

See, now you're just talking crazy. When I play a wizard, I fully expect the party to make a howdah to carry me in it. Why waste a spell when the group can be made to work just as well?

The Exchange

Moff Rimmer wrote:
Steven Tindall wrote:

While at the same time please make sure that the fighter types can do damage at least into the low 90's-100's on critical hits that way they won't feel bad when the wizard does something special like conjure a mount instead of having to walk.

but maybe it's just me?

See, now you're just talking crazy. When I play a wizard, I fully expect the party to make a howdah to carry me in it. Why waste a spell when the group can be made to work just as well?

I thought that was what floating disk was for. You set up your tent on it and have it follow the cleric around. They can wake me when they need a fireball.

Scarab Sages

Crimson Jester wrote:
Moff Rimmer wrote:
Steven Tindall wrote:

While at the same time please make sure that the fighter types can do damage at least into the low 90's-100's on critical hits that way they won't feel bad when the wizard does something special like conjure a mount instead of having to walk.

but maybe it's just me?

See, now you're just talking crazy. When I play a wizard, I fully expect the party to make a howdah to carry me in it. Why waste a spell when the group can be made to work just as well?
I thought that was what floating disk was for. You set up your tent on it and have it follow the cleric around. They can wake me when they need a fireball.

As a wizard I'm far too valuable and important to cast spells needlessly. Floating disk is a potential magic missile I might need later. And again, why cast a spell when you've got good strong backs to help you out. Shoot, the most work I'd do casting a spell for transportation might be charm person to help them see things as they should be seen.

The Exchange

Meh, thats what wands are for.

Scarab Sages

Crimson Jester wrote:
Meh, thats what wands are for.

That's just a waste of good gold. Look, the whole purpose of the rest of the party is to serve the wizard and to make sure that his awesomeness shines. If you're not doing that with your wizard, you're just not playing him right.

The Exchange

Moff Rimmer wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Meh, thats what wands are for.
That's just a waste of good gold. Look, the whole purpose of the rest of the party is to serve the wizard and to make sure that his awesomeness shines. If you're not doing that with your wizard, you're just not playing him right.

I thought it was for

menial tasks: Rouge
Doctor : Cleric
Meat Shield : Fighter
Comfort out in the wild: Ranger
Entertainment : Bard

Scarab Sages

Crimson Jester wrote:
Moff Rimmer wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Meh, thats what wands are for.
That's just a waste of good gold. Look, the whole purpose of the rest of the party is to serve the wizard and to make sure that his awesomeness shines. If you're not doing that with your wizard, you're just not playing him right.

I thought it was for

menial tasks: Rouge
Doctor : Cleric
Meat Shield : Fighter
Comfort out in the wild: Ranger
Entertainment : Bard

Those are either a) to show just how awesome the wizard is or b) secondary to showing just how awesome the wizard is.

The Exchange

Fair enough, for when my reality bending powers are let loose let lesser men be afraid.

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