I'm trying to wrap my head around something and would like to hear other players input on the value of Lunge.
For a primary melee combatant in a group, I was considering heading for the feat quickly. After all, the ability to hit an additional square away seems very helpful.
I started thinking about it however, and since mobs can take a 5' step without provoking an AoO, they can always move up and attack you regardless of that extra square of room.
Where do you find most of the value of the feat, is it overrated or is there another application of it that I am overlooking?
I'm trying to wrap my head around something and would like to hear other players input on the value of Lunge.
For a primary melee combatant in a group, I was considering heading for the feat quickly. After all, the ability to hit an additional square away seems very helpful.
I started thinking about it however, and since mobs can take a 5' step without provoking an AoO, they can always move up and attack you regardless of that extra square of room.
Where do you find most of the value of the feat, is it overrated or is there another application of it that I am overlooking?
Only thing I can think of is if there are three enemies directly in front of you and there is an enemy behind them that you want to hit. You can't 5 foot to be within range.
We houserule this to be a non-feat action type, along with Power Attack.
Lunge can be really useful if it is in difficult terrain then they cannot take a 5 foot step but if all combat is on a featurless plane it sort of would suck. Unless they have nimble moves but may not have the dex.
I think it would be awesome for a magus if they can qualify so they do not have to cast defensively and still spellstrike with touch spells from 10 feet away.
It's also good if you are moving up to attack something with reach. It lets you get a hit in without eating the AOO for moving through threatend areas.
Lunge is great for getting around attacks of opportunity if you want to attempt a combat maneuver without the usual feat...
I've been looking at it from the position of a magus - shockingly I've ended up as the defacto "tank" in most combats because of my high AC and our small group lacks a heavy armor wearer.
I'm looking at progression paths and the idea of lunge was looking pretty good, but given the fact that I'm in the mix so often I'm not sure how much it would directly benefit me. Some good ideas so far as much as taking the 5ft step though.
Another nice feature of lunge, is sometimes it will allow you to continue your full attack once you have dispatched a target, moving onto another target who would have been 5ft too far away. Our TWF fighter used it alot last campaign.
Lots of great ideas.
Maybe it´s not as ´uber´ as a generic across-the-board Reach increase for all things (e.g. AoO´s),
but it IS a very solid Feat for melee fighter types.
I think another useful aspect is that nobody knows you have it until you use it,
so enemies trying to optimally maneuver against you can be in for a surprise...
While somebody mentioned that an enemy can 5´ step to close with you,
that ignores the situations where YOU 5´ step away after attacking them.
Lunge is campaign-dependent, though, and in some campaigns it is very weak.
Checklist:
Number of other players. Lunge becomes more valuable as number of players goes up. If you're the only player, then no one's really going to be in your way.
Terrain. Does your DM fill the map with furniture and terrain? If so, lunge is useful. If every fight takes place on a featureless plain, then not so much.
Setting. Lunge is more useful in buildings and on ships where stuff is always in your way. If you're outside; you probably have more room to maneuver.
This is a must have for a magus IMO. 5ft step, declare Lunge, SpellCombat + SpellStrike. My fighter has it and I swap between polearm and falchion and it's all sorts of useful so far.
Do creatured provoke aoo within lunge range? If someone stand up 5' away can you use lunge to get your aoo?
Enlarge+ReachWeapon+Lunge+spikedgauntlets=how can you even ask? 20ft reach is not at all a stretch the minute you qualify for lunge, and with combat reflexes you become nigh unassultable! Let the squishy caster stand behind you with confidence that only such an unassailable wall can provide.
Hm...I may have to try this with a Stalwart Defender some day...
I intend to use Lunge in combination with a longspear & Combat Patrol. Character is a phalanx soldier and will use a spiked shield for attacks within 5'.
The character has a couple levels of sohei monk and if the DM comes up with something satisfactory for using flurry with the longspear I anticipate additional maximum fun.
had a 2 weapon fighter with it.. was nice to use cuz most times I kill everything in 5 before I ran out of attacks.. lunge opened up the range of things I could kill. Much better with more attacks.
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Yeah, its true value shines with reach weapons (or with large things, like druids).
Normally, with a reach weapon, when you attack an enemy, they end up 10' away. That means that they only need a 5' step to get to you. So they get their full attack and you do not get an AoO (and makes it so that you can't attack first and still get an AoO).
With lunge, enemies end up 15' away. Many will have to move 10' to reach you, and they will usually lose their full attack and draw an AoO. That is offense and defense in one. You can attack first, and still get in those sweet, sweet extra attacks from AoOs (which can be amazing with a fortuitous weapon, which gives you a mini fill attack through AoOs 1/round)
Pair it with pushing assault (take a 5' step back, full attack, push them back 5', and leave them in that 15' sweet spot), and you can completely rock single combat.
And even when you can't get all this control based fun (giants for example), you can still enjoy full attacking anything in a 45' wide circle.
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I intend to use Lunge in combination with a longspear & Combat Patrol. Character is a phalanx soldier and will use a spiked shield for attacks within 5'.
The character has a couple levels of sohei monk and if the DM comes up with something satisfactory for using flurry with the longspear I anticipate additional maximum fun.
Lunge ends at the end of your turn, it's useless with combat patrol.
Lunge is more valuable if you already have Reach. Adding another 5 ft really does a lot for crippling enemy action economy.
Example. With 10 ft Reach you hit. They 5ft step and full attack you.
With 10ft Reach and Lunge, you hit from 15ft. They need to move 10ft, cant full attack you.
Also, remember you have your own 5ft step, backwards, to increase this further.
Edit: As already described above :)