Mathus Lelspith

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Tabletop game, 3-5 players currently + GM.

Too smart for our own good, not smart enough for any one else's.

We play every other Saturday, 1 pm - 10 pm or later.

All take turns running campaigns.

Pathfinder 1.0 - All Paizo rules used.

Current players are 30s-50s.

Will teach.

Looking for a gamer, not necessarily a power-gamer.


I appreciate all the advice above. I was indeed trying to do too much with her. I re-focused on blast-casting first, melee vs evils 2nd and left archery by the wayside. Here's how this Ifrit gal - think of a habanero Poppy Montegomery - has turned out -

Sorcerer-Elemental Bloodline (8) // Virtuous Bravo Paladin (8)

Str 08 -1
Con 12 +1
Int 13 +1
Wis 10 +0
Dex 20 +5 (22 +6, Belt)
Chr 21 +5 (23 circlet, 25 +7 for Sorcerer abilities)
Init +10 (+12)

Fort +15 (Immune to disease)
Ref +21
Will +15 (Immune to Fear & Charm)
AC 24 (28 w/Mage armor)

Special -
Favored/Primary Class – Paladin (hit pts), Secondary Class - Sorcerer
Elemental Bloodline (Fire)
Elemental Resistance – Energy resistance 10 vs Fire
From Lvl 1, use Elemental Ray – 1d6 (+1 per 2 lvls) damage
Multiply Sorcerer class level by 1.5 for Elemental Ray effects
Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 3/Day
Divine Grace – add Chr bonus to all Saves
Lay on Hands – 3D6 healing, 8/Day
Bravo’s Finesse – use Dex mod instead of Str on attack rolls
Immunity to fear & Allies within 10’ gain +4 on saves vs Fear
Divine Health – immunity to diseases
Nimble (Virtuous Bravo) - +2 Dodge bonus to AC
Channel Positive Energy – 4D6 in a 30’ burst
Archon Bond – 1 min/lvl, hostiles within 15’ make a Will save or suffer -2 Att, Save, & AC
Aura of Resolve – allies within 10’ add +4 to saves vs Charm
Panache (Virtuous Bravo) – 5 pts / Day
Deeds - dodging panache, menacing swordplay, opportune parry & riposte, precise strike, & swashbuckler initiative

Traits
- Eyes and Ears of the City (Religion) – +1 to Perception, Perception becomes a class skill
- Magical Lineage (Magic) – Pick one spell & drop the metamagic cost by 1 (Fireball)
- Conspiracy Hunter (Campaign) - +1 to Stealth & Stealth becomes a class skill
Drawback
- Unlearned – Cannot attempt untrained Knowledge checks – exception is Know-Geography

Racial Traits: Native Outsider
Fire Affinity - +2 to Charisma for Sorcerer abilities
60’ Darkvision
Wildfire Heart - +4 to Initiative
Efreeti Magic – Use Enlarge or Reduce Person, 1/day
Mostly Human - counts as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes

Feats (9+1) Feats are subject to House rules – additional feats allowed at 1st, 4th, & 8th lvl
-(Class) Eschew Materials (Sorc)
-(Gen) Spell Focus-Evocation - Add 1 to the DC for all saving throws vs these spells
-(R1) Mage’s Tattoo-Evocation – cast Evoc spells at +1 caster level & cast Dancing Lights 3/day
-(1) Dervish Dance – add Dex bonus to melee attack & damage rolls in place of Str
-(3) Greater Spell Focus-Evocation - Add 1 to the DC for all saving throws vs these spells
-(R4) Expanded Arcana - Forge Ring
-(5) Expanded Arcana – add 2 spells known, one level below the highest current spell level
-(B7) Empower Spell – variable numeric effects of a spell are increased by half (+2 spell lvl)
-(7) Spell Penetration - +2 to caster level checks (1d20 + caster level) to overcome SR
-(R8) Persistent Spell – when target fails save it must save again or be affected (+2 spell lvl)

Skills (56 pts) Total Ability/Rank/Class/Misc/Misc
Bluff (Chr) 16 6/7/3 Appraise (Int) 00 1/0/3
Diplomacy (Chr) 16 6/7/3 Craft – Artist (Int) 08 1/5/3
Fly (Dex) 09 6/0/3 Know – Arcana (Int) 05 1/1/3
Handle Animal (Chr) 11 6/2/3 Know – Nobility (Int) 05 1/1/3
Intimidate (Chr) 16 6/7/3 Know – Planes (Int) 05 1/1/3
Ride (Dex) 09 6/0/3 Know – Religion (Int) 05 1/1/3
Stealth (Dex) 23 6/8/3/1/5 Linguistics (Int) 06 1/5/0
Perform-Dance (Chr) 08 6/2/0 Perception (Wis) 05 0/1/3/1
Profession - Artist (Wis) 04 0/1/3 Sense Motive (Wis) 04 0/1/3
UMD (Chr) 11 6/2/3 Spellcraft (Int) 08 1/4/3

Magic

Head: Brow Circlet – Charisma +2

Ring 1 – Protection +2
Ring 2 – Sustenance

Neck: Choker Nat AC +1

Waist: Belt – Dex +2

Arms: Bracers of Resistance +2

Other Magic: Heward’s Handy Haversack, Wand of Mage Armor (50 charges), Lucky Horseshoe (+1 to saves, +4 1/day), Ioun Stone – Ruby Trillian +5 Stealth

Weapons: Scimitar +1 ‘Holy’ (6315)

Armor: Mithril Buckler +2

I've played her through 2 sessions so far and she is doing fine, filling the party's need for arcane casting well and helping with undead and evil outsiders where we were weak. Other party members have OD'd on Perception, Dipolomacy, and Knowledge, but she'll nonetheless be pumping skill points into Perception next level. Thanks to all.


Look in the index of any book on ancient Greek history.

Alexander the Great's officers' names are a great start.

Place names work as well.

Play around with alternate spellings til you have something you like.

German names as a basis for alternate spellings works well too.


There are some great tidbits above – thanks All.

Since there are more house rules than I enumerated in my first post – can’t be two full casting classes, casting classes can’t use the same casting stat, no prestige classes – and since I played a dedicated Ranger-archer/Sorcerer a couple campaigns ago and am trying to fill a party need without duplicating that character, there are some suggestions I just can’t latch onto now but may use in the future.

I have 9-10 days to get this figured out and will take full advantage of those suggestions above which I can use, so thanks again.


Right mates, I need a critique of a character I’m bringing into a 7th-level homebrew campaign.

House rule is the character must be 2 gestalted classes and have healing capability.

I want to be able to melee vs undead and evil outsiders and otherwise let the party tank do the melee while I sit back and blast with spells or plink with ranged attacks – undead, ranged, and blasting are areas where the party is weak.

The party is strong on healing of course, as well as melee, sneak attacks, knowledge, perception and skills in general.

Stats –
Str 13, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Dex 20, Cha 20

Race: Ifrit

Classes – Elemental Sorcerer & Virtuous Bravo Paladin

Feats accrue according to House rules and the following are my current choices -

Eschew Materials (Sorc)
Spell Focus - evocation school
Quickdraw – to aid Swashbuckler deeds per Virtuous Bravo
Craft Wands, Rods, & Staves – I’ll make some blasty wands to free daily spells for other uses
Precise Shot
Point Blank Shot
Extend Spell – to keep Mage Armor, Heroism, Protection vs Evil etc up all day
Dodge (Bloodline feat)
Dervish Dance
Next up will be Rapid Shot & Cleave

She will not use armor, but should be walking around with AC 21 as long as Mage Armor is up.

She’ll have the Ifrit alternate racial trait, “Wildfire Heart” for +4 Init, so Init won’t need additional help.

Per Swashbuckler Deeds, she should be using a light piercing weapon and I’m thinking a scimitar will suffice since the Dervish Dance feat makes it a piercing weapon.

Magic items have not been addressed yet, but I’m hoping Str help, bracers of AC or rings of protection are involved.

Suggestions, validating comments, disapproval, wry witticisms – all are welcome ;)


Even though this is an older thread, I have just moved to Cypress/NW Houston and would like to join a gaming group 1-3 times a month.

crazytrain 62 at peoplepc dot com


I intend to use Lunge in combination with a longspear & Combat Patrol. Character is a phalanx soldier and will use a spiked shield for attacks within 5'.

The character has a couple levels of sohei monk and if the DM comes up with something satisfactory for using flurry with the longspear I anticipate additional maximum fun.


Prethen - I like the way you think.

I'm playing level 1 sorceror and then mixing levels of fighter and ZAM. I'm 4th level now and will be taking empower spell, extend spell and maximize spell in the next several levels to make Gravity Bow outstanding. Along with the Magical Knack trait, my arrows should then be at 18 damage (3d6) plus any modifier and the spell will last 6 rounds.

If that's still your inclination, do it.

Magical Knack puts Mage Armor at 6 hours duration at 3rd level.

At early levels you'll like having Mage Armor; at later levels when you have other AC options, use all your slots for GB.


Were it me I'd gestalt with Melee 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 4.

I'm playing that very thing right now, minus the gestalt with ZAM, and I'm desperately struggling with whether I should slip in a level or 2 of ZAM.

Gestalting would solve all my problems!

Enjoy ...


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aboniks wrote:
CrazyTrain wrote:
aboniks wrote:
CrazyTrain wrote:
If a muslim paladin is delivered by caesarean section, is he a Caesar Saladin?
Of course. And if he's delivered naturally but turns out to be epileptic the he's a Seizure Saladin.
Would Elizabeth Taylor's cleavage be involved and could her cleavage be a paladin, too?
Sadly, no. Cleave doesn't work that way.

This leads necessarily to great cleavage.


I have played many CN characters. They have each believed that personal freedom for all is the best way to ensure a balance between good and evil. None have been psychotic, dishonest, dilettante-ish, scatterbrained, ADHD-esque or evil under another name.

It's true too many players hide behind their characters' alignment - LG characters too - and use it as a replacement for a personality. And that's a shame.


aboniks wrote:
CrazyTrain wrote:
If a muslim paladin is delivered by caesarean section, is he a Caesar Saladin?
Of course. And if he's delivered naturally but turns out to be epileptic the he's a Seizure Saladin.

Would Elizabeth Taylor's cleavage be involved and could her cleavage be a paladin, too?


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cnetarian wrote:
maybe some of the Eastwood "dollar" movies, and reset your campaign to match.

Aye! What would Blondie/Tuco/Angel Eyes do? That'd be great fun ;)


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If a muslim paladin is delivered by caesarean section, is he a Caesar Saladin?


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I agree with asking them what kind of campaign they want to play in. If they endorse their actions, have fun with it and let them have fun with it.

Yes, some authorities may come after them, but their actions may be the start of a general rising - oppressed peasants, criminal elements coming out in the open, slaves seeking to overthrow the government and get rich in the process, rival politicians/nobles wanting a place at the top of the society, etc. The PCs may want to go on the run and plow new ground.

Work in your previously-scheduled plot elements if and when you can.

You're telling a story. Is it a you're-not-gonna-get-away-with-this story? Or is it about a wild ride like the sack of Lindisfarne?

Step out of the role of defender-of-NPC-world. I have trouble with this myself sometimes. You've created the world in which the players act. The purpose is for the players to have fun. You do not need to defend your creation - the world - from the PCs. You need to facilitate the players' fun. The possibility of PC failure - punishment in this case - needs to be there for it to be fun, but they should have a good chance of overcoming it and getting their way, even if it is chaotic or evil.

Jake Spoon got away with the murder of the dentist in Lonesome Dove. The town sheriff had problems of his own and couldn't bring Spoon to justice. Authorities can be inept and under-funded. Blue Duck got away with everthing you can imagine for years and decades, in spite of Texas rangers pursuing him. Conan the Barbarian robbed and looted his way into becoming a king. Run towards fun with what the players give you.

You should all have a good time. That's why you play. Rapping their knuckles with a ruler won't be fun for anyone.


Pirate Rob wrote:
Murph. wrote:
CrazyTrain wrote:
Does it need to be in Golarion? Can you use Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or Harn instead?
Because copyright violations of WotC's IP is somehow fine, unlike copyright violations of Paizo's?
I think you missed the point: There are already hex maps of those settings available commercially.

+1

Non sequitur. No mention is made of posting said maps online, just using them in-game. Lighten up. I've paid for all my game maps and they're all hard copies, not electrons in space. Coming from a publishing background I'm highly sensitive to theft of intellectual property.

Many hard copy maps are available used on ebay or amazon if they are no longer available new.

Carry on, Taku ;)


Does it need to be in Golarion? Can you use Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or Harn instead? Harn has GREAT maps.


I wanna play!

Probably not helpful, just sayin' ... ;)


At 10+ level I always carry -

one forty-five caliber automatic
two boxes of ammunition
four days' concentrated emergency rations
one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
one hundred dollars in rubles
one hundred dollars in gold
nine packs of chewing gum
one issue of prophylactics
three lipsticks
three pair of nylon stockings

If I have room and the cash, I also bring along some Dominican cigars, a Macedonian phalanx and an Etruscan haruspex.


Jacob Saltband wrote:

Steel sphere with holes drilled into the center of the sphere. The holes should cover one half of the sphere and be an 8th inch in diameter. The opposite side of the sphere should be slightly flattened so the sphere doesnt roll away from where you place. The center of the sphere where all the holes meet should be hollowed out a little. The sphere should be 3-4 inches in radius.

Now melt 14 cu ft of lead and get boiling real good. Then get the wizard of the part to cast Shrink Item of the boiling lead, turn it into cloth and stuff the cloth into the center of the steel sphere.

Place the sphere where needed back to a safe distance, have the wizard shout the command word to turn the cloth back to its normal form (14 cu ft of boiling lead) and ta da a big distacting thing.

No adventuring group should be without one.

Of course this could just be failed experiment.

There HAS to be a Jack Handey quote about that ..... ;)


A bag of 200 marbles.

Throw it down on a hard surface and watch the baddies skate.

Good for some cheap debuffs & reflex saves.

It's helped me get away from from some nasties several times ;)


When not in combat and when you notice many people wanting to talk about a game issue (and you notice that your fiancee wants to speak and is getting drowned out) make everyone role a social initiative. This is for the players, not their characters, so no need to add char bonus. Then let everyone speak in turn.

Tell them this is to help you keep things organized and help you be a better DM.


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A novel, that you *play*.

A poker night without poker.

Nerds run amok.

Bad jokes and obscure references interrupted by dice.


Secane wrote:
Jeremias wrote:
What would a good archer paladin be? Archetype Divine Hunter? Could that character be a social one?

Archers builds require plenty of feats to really shine. The Paladin archer have to devote all feats he/she gets to range combat feats.

The Divine Hunter archetype helps by giving you one of the essential range feats, Precise Shot, as a bonus feat at 1st level.

However, Divine Hunters can't access one of the best Oaths available, the Oath of Vengeance, which allows a paladin to smite extra times a day by exchanging 2 LOHs for 1 extra smite.

Playing an Paladin archer might require you to be a human, just because of that extra feat. You also won't have a lot of extra ability points to throw around.

Jeremias wrote:

The Fighter Archer would be really something. I tried to stat it out: 15, 18, 12, 12, 8, 14. Would a dump to wisdom be wise? I think about the likes of Robin Hood and such characters and he was... Not wise. But certainly fun to play.

One problem I have with the most guides is the CHA dumping. I like to play characters with a good grasp of society and have a certain presence because I do that at the game table.

I would suggest a 15, 18, 14, 10, 12, 10. Shift the 12 to your most favoured stat.

As a fighter archer, you DON'T want to be dominated in battle. A full-round attack from you at mid to high (lv 7+) can down a fellow player in 1 round.

You may also have to be in the frontlines so more HP is beneficial.

Jeremias wrote:


If you will play with a ranged build I'm back to my original choices and I am still undecided between the two concepts...

Please note that from levels 1-4, a ranger archer plays like a range archer, BUT! Once you reach lv 5, you can gain the Point Blank Master feat.

Point Blank Master - Choose one type of ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when firing the selected weapon while threatened.

What does this mean? It means you are no different from a normal 2-handed fighter. You can...

I like everything you are saying, Secane.

I'm two levels into a Tiefling Fighter-Archer. I actually started her as an infernal Sorcerer intending to go the EK route, but have now decided her next 19 levels will be a combination of fighter, monk (zen archer) and slayer. Sorcerer allows her to cast Mage Armor and Gravity Bow, and she should still be a +13 BAB, 63+ skill point, and 19-20 feat character (including the feat-ish 'eschew materials') at lvl 15, supplemented by cool odds n ends like darkvision, energy resistance, sneak attack, tracking, etc.

Bolstered by your comments I'm looking forward to it!

Carry on .... ;)


Weirdo wrote:
A drow with fiendish ancestry is very thematic. There's even a demon apostle racial archetype to represent the amount of drow-fiend contact. You'd mechanically be a tiefling but you could have drow appearance and culture / backstory.

I like that - I think I'll use it myself!


Charles Emerson Winchester III has already been taken.


Tell the GM. If it was me as GM I'd either give you bonus XP each session, or fudge my own dice so that the other characters suffered and you were rewarded. After a few sessions of that I'd tell them all that either I would roll all their checks for them or they could do it using dice I approved and out on the table for all to see.

Life is too short to spend time doing something that aggravates you and rewards cheating ;)


Whatever classes would approximate Lycurgus, Romulus, or Seleucus I Nicator would be my recommendation ;)


Play a Tiefling and then add the 'Fiend Sight' racial feat - this will give you 120' Darkvision and 60' low-light.


Is going the gestalt route for a few levels an option?


Thanks for the suggestions :)

As an N/E, she's a bit of a coward and intends for others to take damage rather than her. Therefore archery will be her combat choice over melee when spells don't suffice.

She'll bully or manipulate others into being between her and the baddies (goodies).

For now I'm thinking she'll go 7 levels of Sorc + 1 lvl of Oracle (Battle mystery + skill-at-arms revelation for the martial weapon proficiency), then look at making the jump into hyper-space, errr, EK. No on Slayer I guess.


Hello Rapscallions –

I’m currently playing a 1st-lvl N/E Tiefling Sorcerer in a pirate campaign.

The character has powers and abilities and evil impulses but does not know why. Studying isn’t her bag, she can just cast spells and do Tiefling stuff, but, though her irises are red she does not know she isn’t human yet. She had to defend herself on the streets growing up and had a tutor for swordplay and archery in adolescence, giving her some facility with weapons and light armor.

I had a progression in mind through 20th lvl (gearing for Eldritch Knight) though the campaign won’t last that long, but dammit, I started thinking and now have too many permutations in my head! ;)

So what’s a few more?!

My 2nd CL will be ‘Slayer’ from the 2013 ‘Advanced Class Guide Playtest’. If you’re not familiar, it’s a blend of Rogue and Ranger that gives feats every other level, full BAB, and sneak attack abilities, w/o heavy armor, bravery, weapon training, or armor mastery.

This was the DM’s suggestion so it’s fine. Beyond that I’m now unsure.
CR, APG, UM, UC are all allowed, as is other source material cleared by the GM on a per-case basis.

The character’s strengths are Dex & Charisma, but her other stats are all at or above 10.

There are enough NPCs on board so that party make-up and tailoring myself to fit in is not an issue, the only issue is fun, angling for survivability and versatility. I’m a compulsive dipper even though Pathfinder penalizes that in many cases.

“What are you trying to do?” – I’m trying to see what *you* would do in order to either firm up my ideas or give myself a new direction.

So what would you build?

Thanks all …


Bizbag wrote:
Once you are a sophisticated enough gamer to be able to create a person with their own personality, as many in this thread demonstrate, you don't need alignment to guide the process. Make a character, decide his basic personality, then decide what alignment seems to best describe him.

+1164

It is very useful to have a set of personality traits, then rank them on 1-10 to get a feel for the character, or have a set of adjectives to describe his personality. I sometimes review this for the character to get myself back in the groove if I haven't played him in a while. The 'alignment' can fit over that once the personality is decided. Given that, I see no reason why alignment would reflect personality necessarily.

Given what I said in my previous post, I think I myself am probably on the line between C/N and C/G, with some N/E thrown in. I keep my word, though, and am forthright in my dealings with others.

PS - Geo W Bush would be L/N ;)


I'm sorry SJ - 'Raiders of Gor' is the 6th book in John Norman's Gorean Saga. I the book, the main character goes from rags to riches in the festering and squalid Port Kar, sections of which are governed by pirate captains and syndicates of various strengths. ISBN = 0-7592-0153-6.


It seems like every time there's a new iteration of DnD they mess with the alignments.

To me, alignment is the way a character views the world and how the world *should* be, not a reflection of his personality necessarily.

A chaotic neutral character (my favorite alignment) believes that freedom for all is the best way to achieve a balance between good and evil, but whether there is balance is secondary to freedom itself. Freedom for all, and certainly for self, is the end, not the means, but freedom for all is likely to bring about a desired balance.

A lawful evil character would believe that structure and hierarchy would be the best way for the truly deserving to guarantee and preserve their property and power. The law can be enacted and enforced to give them the power they crave and preserve it once it is won.

Aside from alignment, any of the nine alignments can be insane or not, keep their word or not (unless a legally binding contract is signed by the lawfuls), be lethargic, greedy, kind, etc.

An LG could quite easily give his word, then break it by rationalizing that the the greater good will be served and that law prevents his following through. The LG will think in that case that the other party should understand and accept this rationalization.

A CE could be kind if it allows him to achieve a certain goal which advances his own freedom or allows the truly deserving to win their just rewards.

A 'strong personal code' does not make one lawful, as a fellow player likes to believe - that could be any character, regardless of alignment.

IMO, of course. YMMV ;)


DrDeth wrote:

“Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.” Joe Pesci rates high on all of those but appearance. So did Keith. Sure a BAD personality but personality nonetheless. Low CHA means no personality, such folk do not become celebrities.

A 5 means you have no personality, not a ornery, wanton & impulsive personality. A personal magnetism score of 5 means no party would even bother considering you.

A 5 score in PF is the smelly bum who everyone wants gone but ignores.

A 7 WIS means you will fail your will saves so often that you’ll lose a lot of play time, and often be a detriment to the party, not an asset. It’s be harder to make Perc rolls, the most commonly rolled skill in the game.

Mind you, I am not saying you can't go for a 8 in both. Could be a reaosnable RPing hook.

Hmmm - well, a 20-pt buy tanks the Chr, since Str, Con & Dex are not going to get tanked. It are what it are. As much fun as having a 10 in everthing would be, I'm opting 'not'.

What I don't want this thread to be about is mini-maxing the stats so the character has no weaknesses. Characters have weaknesses and you play around them. The thread should be about class, feat, & weapon choices and possibly archetypes.

So back to structuring the character .... ;)


El Baron de los Banditos wrote:
Is there any reason you're avoiding going all Barbarian beyond "it's what the old character was"? What are you trying to do, since not using spells, crossbows, and heavier armor is pretty much what the Barbarian does. Plus, barbarians would be really good at wrecking a drum set.

Well, he would be hell on a drum set, it's true ;)

1 level of Barbarian is just for flavor/background. Summoning hordes and raging all the time just ain't my bag. Combinations of rogue & fighter, with a dash of ranger - the more offbeat the better, if it keeps the character effective - are what I want to explore.

The GM has plenty of NPC's that will be helping the PCs and will fill in any 'roles' we need as a party. He wants us to play what we enjoy. I'm just looking to jumpstart my thinking before I start delving into the books for an angle.


I need advice from you brilliant gameologists ;)

I'm starting play with a new group which will be running through a pirate setting.

My character is an old one from high school, an N/E dwarf whose orneriness, wantonness, and impulsiveness knows few bounds. He used to be a fighter/thief in the AD&D days. Personality is a combination of Joe Pesci, Tuco from Good, Bad, & the Ugly, and Keith Moon.

Parameters - start at level one; Core Rulebook, APG, Ultimate Magic, & Ultimate Combat allowed. I have no experience outside the Core & APG, and even my experience with those 2 is limited.

Stats - (could be off a tad since I'm going from memory from last Saturday)
Str - 18
Con - 14
Dex - 15
Int - 10
Wis - 7
Chr - 5

Starting as Barbarian for CL 1. This will be his only level in the Barbarian class; subsequent levels will be in Rogue, Fighter, and/or Ranger, but I have, as yet, no ideas on progression, archetypes, weapons, etc., pending lots of reading through the newly allowed books.

Other than eschewing spells, bows & crossbows, and anything heavier than light armor he could go any direction within the limits above.

Any suggestions to get me pointed in a direction would be welcome ;)

Thanks!


The 3.5 tabletop campaign we just finished I played a character as a merchant. It's just background flavor really. Her classes were fighter, rogue, & dread commando prestige class. Her background was that her parents were a human merchant ship captain and a tiefling rogue and she had been employed first as a liaison between the Merchants' Guild and Thieves' Guild, then trained as part of a covert team to protect Merchant Guild interests from the depradations of the Thieves.

I played her as making a buck buying and selling whenever we weren't in combat.

You could use any classes I would think.


Ethereal Gears wrote:
Maybe someone could provide a link or two to these hopliticious threads? It might not be what I'll be going for, but it sounds like really cool build ideas.

'Ere you go, mate!:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nrjl?Greek-Citizen-hoplite-build#1

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ngf6?Help-with-an-Achilles-build#7

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwyr?I-need-some-advice-for-my-SpearShield-fig hter#13

I just started a character with a different concept in a homebrew campaign, but I'm anxious to play a similar character to the above at the next opportunity.


There are some good recent threads on playing hoplite-type characters, a la Achilles in Troy, using shield and spear/reach tactics to control an area. Fighter & Oracle were mentioned for multi-classing.

I've fooled with it some and dipped into Rogue as well as Fighter and Oracle in the first 10 levels and it looks like a lot of fun to play, and just what this party may need.

I wouldn't worry too much about healing if it does not appeal to you. The GM knows the other players have dropped out and cannot expect you to cover all their bases. Play what you like and I expect the GM will make it possible for your party to have some healing one way or another ;)


What do *I* do?

I determine positioning and attacks, roll my hits and damage during a previous character's round, then go.

I don't bring my laptop to give myself distracting options other than the game at hand and I either leave my phone in the car, or turn it off or both.

Since 1st Ed I've usually played a melee character or rogue, so that simplifies things.

That said, though we're all in our 40s-50s, my group's dynamic is such that the casters and whoever is GM parse every permutation of the spell possibilities each round, so in a 6-player group (the current campaign is now 7 players) I go once each 40-60 minutes during an encounter, my turn takes 1-3 minutes, and then I'm looking at rulebooks, listening in, cutting up, or - yes, it's true - sitting on the couch with my eyes closed which occasionally involves sleep ;) What I am NOT doing is electically distracting myself.

This go-round I am playing a caster (Ranger/EK) because I need to broaden my understanding, because I need to understand what players who play casters go through, and because I hope to show that a caster's rounds needn't be so time-consuming.

All that aside, it is important for a player to choose and build a character that is NOT a one-trick pony. Players, melee or not, should be able to do more than one thing in a combat encounter, and should have capabilities to keep themselves engaged out of combat.

A GM who employs some of what has been suggested helps as well, but if the players can't make efforts at building multi-capable characters, and then make at least a moderate committment to efficient play, everyone's time is being wasted.

I've sent my group a link to this thread, so I hope I'm not getting myself into trouble ;)


Welcome Gilcrow.

You might consider taking 2 levels of fighter after your 4 levels of Ranger. Compared to 6 levels of Ranger this will gain you one more feat at the expense of a favored enemy and a change in the weighting of your saves. Go wizard at CL 7 or course, then Arcane Archer. After a few levels of Arcane Archer you'll have the option of continuing with AA or switching to Eldritch Knight.

Have fun.


Thanks Imbicatus & Jon - I have re-submitted this to the GM by email so that he knows what I am asking.

Certainly I wouldn't expect a warrior who had the Magical Knack trait to be able to pick up 2 arcane casting levels w/o ever taking a level in Wizard or Sorcerer as a class first. I didn't mean for it to sound like that was how I was reading it.

What ya'll are saying is that the Magical Knack trait is not adding levels of a spellcasting class in the same way that Arcane Archer or Mystic Theurge are - it is a less powerful benefit. I'm on board with that, pending my GM's response.

Thanks again for the benefit of your advice.

Nothing beats feeling like a dolt in your first thread! ;)


Hmmm – not usually playing a spellcaster for the last 20-ish years and favoring warrior, rogue and ranger have made me a bit rusty on casting, so I went over this carefully with my GM, but let me make sure with you lot that I'm not flubbing this … I'm not a rules-monger, but this is important -

From Paizo.com -

Magical Knack: You were raised, either wholly or in part, by a magical creature, either after it found you abandoned in the woods or because your parents often left you in the care of a magical minion. This constant exposure to magic has made its mysteries easy for you to understand, even when you turn your mind to other devotions and tasks. Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn't raise your caster level above your current Hit Dice.”

From Arcane Archer at Paizo.com –

Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, an arcane archer gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

From Mystic Theurge at Paizo.com –

Spells per Day: When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

Our assumption is that the +2 caster level granted by Magical Knack grants the same benefit as new spellcasting class levels granted by leveling in A.A. and M.T.

Please sound off – is this NOT correct??

In the link provided by Imbicatus, it looks like one does NOT advance one’s access to spells per day and to higher level spells –

Caster Level: In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the Dc of the check).”

If the GM stands by his decision to let me run with it, then I will, but I don’t want a brouhaha if/when the other players object, so I’m very interested in opinions here.

Thanks some more ;)


Thanks guys. I did see after I posted that my option "III" was springing too early into EK - good catch Rudolf. But if I read it right, with Magical Knack giving me +2 levels of arcane casting, build III should read 'Ranger 1/Wizard 3/EK 10/Wiz 1'. I doubt I'll play the character by getting into EK ASAP - builds I & II are the more likely routes.

The GM is hard & fast on which books we can use, so I'll put Ranger/Magus away for future use.

Thanks also for the opinion on the Gnome's ability to cover a party's arcane needs, Soupturtle. I agree about Ranger being the better option in this case. I should noted, Soup & Houser, that I have already added my Human +2 to Int, and I intend to have a bad Str and Con score - though getting them to the point of not giving the neg 1 is something I'll address asap. I did not want to totally tank those two stats into negatives, 10s would have been fine <sigh>. I do strongly desire her 4th and 8th lvl ability boosts to go into Int though. Hmmm ... tough choices ahead!

I'll take a look at your recommended thread, Soup, and fold it into my thinking. Her 2nd CL will go into Wizard regardless, so the *earliest* I will need to start making decisions will be the 2/3 transition. By then I should have a better idea how the Gnome's player is going to play him.

Thank all!


Wow - sounds great!

That's the kind of campaign I've been wanting to play in for years.

I hope your players will realize how lucky they are.

'Raiders of Gor' by John Norman and The Sopranos would be great source material.


I'd just crack open any Roman or Greek history book and look at the index. You'll get tons of ideas even if you don't use one verbatim.


Thanks Artaxerxes - would you believe that a couple weeks ago I was reading Plutarch's 'Life of Artaxerxes II'?

I tried searching for things approximating my build, and read plenty on Eldritch Knights, etc, but most seemed to err towards getting into EK ASAP to bring EK's 10th-lvl coup-de-grace as close as possible, and none where a Gnome Evoker/Illusionist was likely the main arcane caster.

I'll look some more.

I hope I can avoid the 'torture of the two boats' ;)


Hi All - long-time listener, first-time caller ;)

I'm new to Pathfinder but have been playing DnD since about 1977.

We've started a new campaign and the GM is experienced with Pathfinder.

My stats are -

-Str 8
-Con 8
-Int 16
-Wis 14
-Dex 18
-Chr 10

... and my original character idea was C/G human Ranger-archer, which looks much more interesting in Pathfinder than in 3 & 3.5.

I've read many threads here on the forum as well as Treantmonk's guide to rangers and Lastoth's guide to archery.

We are limited to the Core Rulebook & Adv Players Guide.

I'm getting the vibe that this will a lower magic campaign as far as items go.

As we are still 1st level we're still figuring out where we fit.

I never like playing a one-trick pony so at least a few arcane spells and possibly Arcane Archer and/or Eldritch Knight have appeal.

The other characters in the party are -

- Oracle
- another Oracle
- melee Fighter
- Gnome Sorcerer - draconic bloodline - illusions and evocations
- Monk
- Rogue/Shadowdancer

An important question is, will the Gnome be able to carry the weight of the party's arcane casting needs?

If so, I'll likely go straight Ranger.

If not, I've given myself 3 options - all three take Magical Knack as a Trait - running them up to 15th level for grins ...

I. Ranger 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 3/Eldritch Knight 5 (arcane caster 9)

This option will be heavy on archer and will supplement the gnome if he's doing well with the arcane stuff.

II. Ranger 3/Wizard 3/Eldritch Knight 9 (arcane caster 13)

This option will let my character do more casting and still be a capable archer.

III. Ranger 1/Wizard 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard 3 (arcane caster 15)

This will allow maximum arcane capability and still let me pay lip service to my archer concept and be the party's archer.

All 3 would err toward archery feats throughout the 15 levels.

Am I a flippin' genius? Or am I embarking on a path to frustration and ruin? :)

On the Wizard side, if the gnome will be an Illusionist/Evoker, should I be a generalist, or specialize in some way? I want to keep 'Gravity Bow' in the mix regardless.

I don't usually play arcane casters and with the new game system I have a little trepidation about being on the road to a dead-end.

That said, mini-maxing takes 2nd-place to the character for me. She has some intentional weaknesses - strength & con, not much armor, won't be riding a warhorse in contravention of Lastoth's advice, no Big Cat animal companion, etc. She will be avoiding melee at all costs and will have a good stealth score.

If it was you, what would you do?

Thanks all!