Such calls for them to marry are deeply offensive.
Death to all Poisoners of Innocence!
Death? How about cake instead?
Such calls for them to marry are deeply offensive.
I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!
Ok that has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard of. Their F'n puppets for goodness sake.
Their meant to help educate pre-school children about letters and numbers not anything else.
Lets keep kids programing free of all this political or adult themed crap and let'em be kids for as long as possible.
I fully support and understand the need to help educate young people about differences to prevent anymore Mathew shepherds from happening but that can begin at the high school level and be just as effective. Don't rob a child of their innocence by forcing this political agenda BS on them.
My two C.P.
I used to espouse the theory that B&E were gay all the time. Doesn't mean I'd want to see that on the show or that it's really the case. I also espoused the theory that David was a drug dealer who inherited his business from Mr. Hooper. Had to be. Who else runs a store (Hooper's) where people don't actually buy anything? Want proof that everyone is on drugs? For the longest time they didn't believe there was a tuskless hairy elephant wandering the streets, even when they were told by an eight foot tall canary.
Okay, having read the article, what I see is--
1. 6,700 people petitioned Sesame Street to have Bert and Ernie marry.
2. Sesame Street clearly and concisely said, "No," saying the two characters were designed to teach lessons about friendship and pointed out that as puppets, they do not have a sexual orientation. (Which I would also extrapolate to interpret that it's equally unlikely that we'll see Ernie marry Prairie Dawn or something.)
I do not see any "attack" to Bert and Ernie nor to children nor to Sesame Street. For those who do not like the idea of Bert and Ernie marrying, the matter has already resolved: Sesame Street is NOT going to do it, as reading the article clearly indicates, so ranting about what isn't actually going to happen doesn't really accomplish much.
Now, for the record, I am a queer individual who is a proponent of gay marriage (my religious community in fact marries same sex couples; it's just sadly not recognized by the state) and certainly of positive portrayals of same-sex-partners on television. However, I also believe that Sesame Street made the right decision regarding the petition, for the reasons that their executives stated.
Now, I believe that people (including myself) wanting to see homosexuals portrayed positively on television are only being political insofar as they want to see themselves and/or their same-sex-preferring friends have representation on television, rather than stick to the norm of being rendered invisible in the media. The fact that these individuals exist (and marry and have children, and that these children probably watch Sesame Street) should not have to be a reflection of a "political agenda," let alone a negative political agenda, and I am very saddened that there are individuals who see it that way, and that they could be "offended" by someone simply wanting to see themselves or their friends represented positively on television. After all, I doubt the people wanting Bert and Ernie to marry did not want sex to be portrayed on Sesame Street--based on the facts presented that I can find, I am certain they simply wanted to give visibility to an often underrepresented minority.
I am sure if (and likely when) the Sesame Street decides to portray a married same-sex couple, they will handle it as delicately and maturely as they handle many difficult and controversial issues (which is to say, extremely well). And indeed, they will probably not do it by marrying off two Muppets, but probably rather do something like bring on the show the real-life child of same-sex parents and have her talk about her family, so that children see from a fellow child's point of view that there are many different kinds of families out there (a concept that Sesame Street in the past has covered in different areas, such as mixed-race couples, something that was once treated with as much hatred and derision as same-sex marriage is treated now).
I say: "Who cares?"
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For the longest time they didn't believe there was a tuskless hairy elephant wandering the streets, even when they were told by an eight foot tall canary.
Funny story about that.
So, as you say: for years, Big Bird was the only one around when Snuffalumpagus would come by. They'd have a nice scene together, and then Snuffy would leave. Big Bird kept insisting to all the real people on Sesame Street that Snuffalumpagus was real, and nobody believed him. It was a comic bit.
See the problem?
Big Bird is written as a point-of-view character, like Kermit and Ernie. Kids are intended to put themselves in the place of Big Bird. And so here was this kid-proxy, telling adults over and over that something was happening when they weren't around, and nobody believed him. It was a child abuse scenario.
So, one day, Snuffalumpagus came around, and Big Bird was able to find other people, and everybody met Snuffy and they all had a nice time, and everybody said they were sorry they didn't believe Big Bird.
For the longest time they didn't believe there was a tuskless hairy elephant wandering the streets, even when they were told by an eight foot tall canary.Funny story about that.
So, as you say: for years, Big Bird was the only one around when Snuffalumpagus would come by. They'd have a nice scene together, and then Snuffy would leaave. big Bird kept insisting to all the real people on Sesame Street that Snuffalumpagus was real, and nobody believed him. It was a comic bit.
See the problem?
Big Bird is written as a point-of-view character, like Kermit and Ernie. Kids are intended to put themselves in the place of Big Bird. And so here was this kid-proxy, telling adults over and over that something was happening when they weren't around, and nobody believed him. It was a child abuse scenario.
So, one day, Snuffalumpagus came around, and Big Bird was able to find other people, and everybody met Snuffy and they all had a nice time, and everybody said they were sorry they didn't believe Big Bird.
How is that a funny story? Now I'm all bummed out.
(Which I would also extrapolate to interpret that it's equally unlikely that we'll see Ernie marry Prairie Dawn or something.)Why you squashin' the hopes of us Ernie/Prairie Dawn 'shippers?
Sorry, Vic. I wouldn't want to squash the hopes of fans of PRAIRNIE anymore than I would of BERNIE--just saying the neither are likely to be made canon. :) You'll have to stick to your dirty, dirty Sesame Street fanfic. ;)
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Alas, Bert doesn't have time to marry. There are other, more important matters to which he must attend (NSFW).
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I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!
I reject the modern-think that presumes that because two guys are best friends they 'must be gay', and can't just be friends.
It's the same narrow minded knee jerk conservatism that suggests that if a man and woman are friends they 'must be sleeping together'.
I'd have hoped that we were moving into more enlightened times where the nature of ones friendship does not immediately have to be defined, much less sexually defined, and wish Bert and Ernie all the best in their close bond and friendship they share, despite their differences.
Shame on the prudes and puritans who assume everything is sexual, shame shame shame.
I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!I reject the modern-think that presumes that because two guys are best friends they 'must be gay', and can't just be friends.
It's the same narrow minded knee jerk conservatism that suggests that if a man and woman are friends they 'must be sleeping together'.
I'd have hoped that we were moving into more enlightened times where the nature of ones friendship does not immediately have to be defined, much less sexually defined, and wish Bert and Ernie all the best in their close bond and friendship they share, despite their differences.
Shame on the prudes and puritans who assume everything is sexual, shame shame shame.
To offer a different perspective, like DeathQuaker said above, it was all about LGBTIQ peeps wanting to be included (positively) in our pop culture. Especially when such portrayals can give hope to young LGBTIQ kids and reinforce to all kids that its normal. I can't imagine anyone pro-LGBTIQ who is actually interested in the sleeping arrangements of muppets.
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For the longest time they didn't believe there was a tuskless hairy elephant wandering the streets, even when they were told by an eight foot tall canary.Funny story about that.
So, as you say: for years, Big Bird was the only one around when Snuffalumpagus would come by. They'd have a nice scene together, and then Snuffy would leave. Big Bird kept insisting to all the real people on Sesame Street that Snuffalumpagus was real, and nobody believed him. It was a comic bit.
See the problem?
Big Bird is written as a point-of-view character, like Kermit and Ernie. Kids are intended to put themselves in the place of Big Bird. And so here was this kid-proxy, telling adults over and over that something was happening when they weren't around, and nobody believed him. It was a child abuse scenario.
So, one day, Snuffalumpagus came around, and Big Bird was able to find other people, and everybody met Snuffy and they all had a nice time, and everybody said they were sorry they didn't believe Big Bird.
Woah! I never got that...Wasnt the public emergence of Snufflufagus mirrored by the loss of Mister Hooper (BB called him Mr Looper)? I thought it was about Big Bird dealing with the loss of Mr Hooper and the assumption that he had made up a friend who wasnt real in grief and only later do they all realize that BB's immaginary friend was real.
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It was a different world when I grew up. Gay relationships weren't even acknlowledged. There was no Will and Grace, no presence of gay life on TV at all, few dared coming out to their families, workplace or friends, in fact many gays I met during my early days of coming out had moved interstate so they didn't have to face coming out to their families who must have wondered why their sons were so distant to them? Growing up gay, even before I knew there was a word for it, was incredibly isolating - is it any wonder depression/suicide rates are double among gays than among the general population? Would having positive representation of same-sex couples on Sesame Street, Brady Bunch, or any number of other 70s television series have helped me come to terms with who I am at that age, have saved me years of self-doubt, depression, fear, anxiety? Given me self-confidence? Most definitely! VERY MOST DEFINITELY! Children perform better at school without these concerns clouding their heads.
Sesame Street was a 70s children's television programme, and understandably, a product of it's times. However, things are much different nowadays. Gay relationships are normal, healthy, respected and common. As more gays choose to live their lives openly instead of hidden double lives, children will know gays within their own families: an auntie/uncle, brother/sister, neighbour/teacher, perhaps even same-sex parents, or as I had, growing up gay themselves. It's important for children to see healthy gay relationships portrayed in television programming alongside married couples, to reduce the incidence of hurtful schoolyard jokes, name-calling, bullying etc, and help develop normal attitudes and relate normally with gays they will meet in their own lives.
I commend Paizo for including such a wide representation of cultures, races, strong roles for both male and female characters, and gay characters within Pathfinder adventures - it's another way for gaymers to feel represented in the games we play, because it does feel exclusionary to never see your gender, ethnicity or orientation represented in the movies you watch, books you read or games you play.
Yes, it's time for Sesame Street to move with the times.
The Age newspaper[/url]"]"The folks who fret that a wedding between Bert and Ernie would "sexualize" a kids' show were remarkably silent about a frog porking a pig."
PBS already put out a statement saying that Bert and Ernie are not only not gay they have no sexuality, BECAUSE THEY'RE PUPPETS. Problem solved.
Bert and Ernie's alleged repressed sexuality has been a long running joke for quite awhile. They're puppets. Who gives a rat's @$$? PBS made the right call with the above statement.
However, If their were to real men who had been "room mates" for 50 some odd years and shared a bedroom (though they had a nightstand between the beds). Also they had neither ever been married and never really dated women. Regardless of what those men said They'd be gay.
P.S. I'm a gay man. What's offensive to me is the inability to legally marry the man I love, just as most of you could marry the woman you love. I don't care about the puppets even a little.
Gauge carefully how offended you get at anything puppets do. Measure that against the grotesque inequalities between the various forms of taxpaying, military serving, hard working american citizens against what puppets do or don't do. Let's have a little perspective please.
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Lets keep kids programing free of all this political or adult themed crap and let'em be kids for as long as possible.
As I recall there has been a heterosexual married couple on Sesame Street since the very first episode. And they were a black heterosexual couple too, which was pretty radical stuff in 1969. Clearly someone's political agenda BS was being forced on me in kindergarten.
As I recall there has been a heterosexual married couple on Sesame Street since the very first episode. And they were a black heterosexual couple too, which was pretty radical stuff in 1969. Clearly someone's political agenda BS was being forced on me in kindergarten.
Lets keep kids programing free of all this political or adult themed crap and let'em be kids for as long as possible.
Exactly. Everyone thinks political agendas are fine so long as they agree with it.
As a side not no one seems to be offended that most of the muppets don't wear pants. Why is this ok? Because they're muppets!
I also don't see anyone rushing to get Oscar moved out of his garbage can and into a homeless shelter...but then most garbage cans don't have indoor swimming pools.
Woah! I never got that...Wasnt the public emergence of Snufflufagus mirrored by the loss of Mister Hooper (BB called him Mr Looper)? I thought it was about Big Bird dealing with the loss of Mr Hooper and the assumption that he had made up a friend who wasnt real in grief and only later do they all realize that BB's immaginary friend was real.
Actually, no. Mr. Hooper's last episode was in 1983. Mr. Snuffleupagus wasn't seen by everybody until 1985. The revelation of Mr. Snuffleupagus wasn't related to the death of Mr. Looper (Hooper, Bird, Hooper).
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I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!I reject the modern-think that presumes that because two guys are best friends they 'must be gay', and can't just be friends.
It's the same narrow minded knee jerk conservatism that suggests that if a man and woman are friends they 'must be sleeping together'.
I'd have hoped that we were moving into more enlightened times where the nature of ones friendship does not immediately have to be defined, much less sexually defined, and wish Bert and Ernie all the best in their close bond and friendship they share, despite their differences.
Shame on the prudes and puritans who assume everything is sexual, shame shame shame.
I agree w/Shifty.
it's like the Sam/Frodo or Kirk/Spock (or Ron/Harry) slash fic. Why do people feel any friends have to be frakking each other? I myself found out there were rumours about my best friend and I after we left High school.
If people want to make a couple of 'gay muppets' then make a couple of gay muppets. (besides Avenue Q)
I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!I reject the modern-think that presumes that because two guys are best friends they 'must be gay', and can't just be friends.
It's the same narrow minded knee jerk conservatism that suggests that if a man and woman are friends they 'must be sleeping together'.
I'd have hoped that we were moving into more enlightened times where the nature of ones friendship does not immediately have to be defined, much less sexually defined, and wish Bert and Ernie all the best in their close bond and friendship they share, despite their differences.
Shame on the prudes and puritans who assume everything is sexual, shame shame shame.
I agree w/Shifty.
it's like the Sam/Frodo or Kirk/Spock (or Ron/Harry) slash fic. Why do people feel any friends have to be frakking each other? I myself found out there were rumours about my best friend and I after we left High school.
If people want to make a couple of 'gay muppets' then make a couple of gay muppets. (besides Avenue Q)
And I'm fine with Bert & Ernie being best buds, and yeah, I'd probably rather see a new pair of muppets "be gay." But any muppets portraying a non-hetero couple are going to immediately draw a lot of aggressive opposition who feels anything that isn't "hetero-normative" is deeply offensive... it'll just them more energy to go after PBS and Sesame Street by cutting their budgets until they die from bloodloss.
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I'm just curious if there would really be that much uproar if PBS were to reveal that Ernie was straight? If a girl muppet moved in next door to him, if he blushed and stammered whenever she was around, and he was obviously interested in her (and assuming that it was handled tastefully)? Would people really scream that Ernie couldn't be a heterosexual? That he's a muppet, and therefore had no sexual orientation?
Maybe. But I kind of doubt it.
And I'm fine with Bert & Ernie being best buds, and yeah, I'd probably rather see a new pair of muppets "be gay."
If they want to add a pair of Gay characters then thats a different matter. As the point of Sesame Street has always been about positive portrayals and understanding difference then it should be moving along with the times enough to allow gay characters.
But not Bert and Ernie.
"Leave Bertnie alone!"
Men should be able to form close bonds and friendships with other men without being branded "a homo".
The fact that men don't form these bonds well, due to having issues and societal fears and attitudes encouraging 'going it alone' and 'being tough' has led to their isolation and limited ability to share emotion and share problems with others - and where is this leading other than susbtance abuse,domestic violence, and suicide?
Lets just let friends be friends, and not feel the need to label everything in such a hurry.
Bert and Ernie spend time talking to each other, even if it ends up in scams and stunts pulled on each other, but whats most important is that it's two friends communicating.
"Leave Bertnie alone!"
+1
Death to all Poisoners of Innocence!
Death? How about cake instead?
Such calls for them to marry are deeply offensive.I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!
The word I would use is "silly." Nobody wanted Felix and Oscar to marry. That's all Bert and Ernie are.
It cracks me up that someone started a petition, got 6200 signatures, and now Bert and Ernie are under attack...
Some people are nothing but buttons waiting to get pushed. LOL!
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Good thing they don't know about the Bernie & Erd Show from german comedy (yea, that sign reads bum / botty club) ;)
I can understand wanting to be represented, but I don't think that marrying Bert and Ernie is the way to do it, because that sends the message that every friendship has to be sexualized in some way. If they really want to represented regularly, petition to have new characters added with that in mind, don't try to mess with existing ones.
What bothers me the most about this is that these petitioners are outright ignoring - nay, completely denying! - Bert's mad love affair with Connie Stevens.
It happened on The Muppet Show. It must be true.
I'll probably go along with "misguided," but "deeply offensive"?!I reject the modern-think that presumes that because two guys are best friends they 'must be gay', and can't just be friends.
It's the same narrow minded knee jerk conservatism that suggests that if a man and woman are friends they 'must be sleeping together'.
I'd have hoped that we were moving into more enlightened times where the nature of ones friendship does not immediately have to be defined, much less sexually defined, and wish Bert and Ernie all the best in their close bond and friendship they share, despite their differences.
Shame on the prudes and puritans who assume everything is sexual, shame shame shame.
*Slow applause*