You're taking on a game that is much different that those normally encouraged by the rule set. I would recommend not doing so; the head of a trading empire ceases to be a player character, and becomes an NPC. That said, such a game isn't impossible to run, but as you've noted you're going to have to do things a bit differently.
The challenges you present your player need to be of a more global scale. Business ventures almost always result in rivals and enemies, groups just as large and powerful as your player's own vying for control. That said, though the challenges may be large, you'll need to narrow the focus. Give him something specific to do, a role to play that impacts larger events.
You'll need to establish some sort of money sink; the leaders of trade empires are not usually adventurers, due to the fact that adventuring is a deadly profession usually motivated by wealth that this player doesn't need. I'm guessing he's placed a lot of skill points in a relevant Profession skill, most likely Profession (merchant)? If not, he needs to. Perhaps give him a RP bonus to the check, but otherwise follow the skill's rules to determine how much money he personally earns. Everything else should be tied up in holdings, employees, and goods that he simply can't liquidate, as well as taxes and bribes needed to operate within the regions in which he has holdings. He should be able to tap these resources from time to time, but within reason; don't give him free reign to do whatever he wants with the money. And take special note that any week he's adventuring, or doing anything other than tending to business matters, he doesn't get to make such a check.
Alternatively, you could allow him to make a Profession check every week without a bonus, regardless of what he's doing, to represent the fact that business continues even in his absence. He would then need to visit one of his holding to claim his gains before he could spend the money.
Finally, you'll need to pay close attention to the way the other members of the party behave. They may grow resentful of the situation, and of the trader character specifically. Keep in mind that this game is not a one-man show; if the others are not enjoying themselves, you'll either need to change things up so that they are, or bring an end to the trading empire immediately. It's fine to humor the wishes of a player from time to time, but never at the expense of the other players' enjoyment of the game.
EDIT I should ask, how much of his starting wealth did you have this character spend in order to establish this trading empire?
First, why does he want to run a trading empire? Does he want it to just make him money, or does he want to play the "micromanaging game"? Does he want to do it all in person, or does he want his company to do it for him?
If he wants his company to do it for him, then simply have him get the leadership feat, and have the company run in the background. Most of the money it makes goes back into the company, or saved for a rainy day. He may collect a few hundred gold in a good month, but may have losses other months.
If he wants to do it himself, have him do the work. He will need a bunch of skills - Appraise to value the material, knowledge (geography) and knowledge (local) to find the markets, bluff and diplomacy to negotiate prices, and probably profession (merchant) to tie everything together. Make him decide what sort of stuff he wants to trade, set up the plan, and hopefully have it all come together.
Trading involves buying good low in one place, then shipping them to somewhere where he can sell them high. If he doesn't have his own transportation, he will have to have someone else ship them, which cuts into profits. Also, while adventurer's don't really pay taxes, merchant houses definitely will, so there is another cut.
Does he want to be an honest trader, or a dishonest trader. Dishonest traders make more money short term, but cheating people out of their money tends to make them cranky. Of course, if he is honest, he has to deal with other traders, who may themselves be dishonest. If there is a market, there will likely be rivals trying to do the same thing he is doing. That's not counting bandits, evil overlords just confiscating the goods, etc.
Also, how do the other players feel about it? Are they okay with this? If so, you can design your campaign around trading adventures. If not, then it is something you will probably have to deal with away from the table privately.
The head of a (successful) merchant company has too many duties managing the company to go out adventuring. And anyone the player can higher to run the company that well would be better off running his own company by himself for all the profits instead of running a company for someone else for a small bit of the profits.
If the player wants a merchant company, fine. But it only earns enough money to break even (so no profits) without the players direct and almost constant managing.
making lots and lots of money is okay, however noone will have more wealth than he can defend for a long time.
In short, if a level 8 gets 1 Million GP, lvl 14 characters will come and take it all, including their merchant empire.
If the whole group wants to create a merchant empire, let them do it and include a lot of adventures. A caravan gets attacked by lizards, they have to get it back.
A wealthier merchant bribes guards to confiscate your "illegal" shipments.
A mayor takes you ten times the normal amount for a bogus reason, can you do something against it?
Someone put a hefty reward on your heads, you have no clue why. Building defenses into your house is very pricy.
In the end, all will work out, and if not, rob them of everything and tell them not to build another empire.
Simple version - tell him if he has the the free time he can make a profession (merchant) check, and earn gold by those rules.
Complicated version - allow him to earn the 44,000 gold but have most of it (43,900+) spent to keep up appearances so other's trust him. You can't sue someone across the country or report them to the BBB (a NGO that reports on the quality/honesty of businesses in North America for those of you outside of U.S. & Canada). People are only going to keep trading with people they trust so he'll need to have big parties, donations/bribes, a huge estate, and all the other things that show the people he does business with that he's someone to be take seriously. It won't take up near as much time since he doesn't have a enemy to go drag the party into attacking, he'll get the I own a palace and everyone in town things I'm a shot caller feel, and you can move on with your game.
I wouldn't suggest any of the taking any of it away by random events that will tie him up, seeing as how the other PCs might be a get bored with watching him play.
if you don't want to GM a lot of trading tell them that they don't have that much downtime for whatever reason.
I imagine that (apart from clever management) it would come down to interest in a bank. They invest 30k and get 100gold a month. If they can't wait 2 years between every adventure, they will probably be happier with 30k. Honestly, adventuring is a lot more promising than investing money if you look gold increase and compare it to modern investment reward.
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Simple version - tell him if he has the the free time he can make a profession (merchant) check, and earn gold by those rules.
This is what I'd do. Otherwise, it's going to bog down the game for everyone else. (Unless they're involved too, in which case you're playing Accountants & Invoices instead of Pathfinder. 8^)
We started with the amount of gold the core book advised (33.000 gold if I remember correctly).
Yes, but how much of that initial 33,000gp was put into the character's empire? The initial amount is a character's total starting wealth, and should include the value of all his holdings and goods in addition to equipment; a character that wants to start play as the head of a trading empire should devote some of those funds toward that purpose, and as a result have less money for weapons, armor, and other gear. The more money that is put into the empire should result in greater returns: more expansive trade network, greater and more powerful connections with NPCs, greater ability to seek out specific goods, and similar boons.
Back to the topic, if you want to keep it as simple as possible, stick with a weekly Profession (merchant) check. The ideas I and others outlined here are all viable options, but this will be the easiest method if you want to keep the game play moving forward.
I'd be interested in knowing what you decide to run with, as well as how things turn out; if you have the opportunity and desire, I'd love some updates on how things are progressing over time.
Him and the party cleric have spent lots and lots of hours talking about how they are going to change the political part of the game world.
Good for him, and for you, it means that the player is actually interested in the game world you've put together outside of simply following along to the next adventure. Getting into politics and wanting to make a mark in a world is a great aspiration for a player character to have, and can be the driving force behind lots of adventures if you want. I'll trade you both of my players who are uninterested about the game world and zone out during anything that isn't combat or mechanics related for one player like you describe!
Because I know he isn't reading this I might as well say it. I don't want to play Merchant D20 with a dash of politics.... That's why I'd like to know if there is some easy way for me to just say "roll this and get that" without having to worry about him getting the gold to buy the king of his throne.
That said, if you aren't interested in running a game where the PCs become movers and shakers in the world and have problems that don't involve the next adventure then you need to tell him so that he doesn't get too invested in the idea before it is shot down. Tell him he can roll profession merchant checks any week he has off, say that the funds he receives are equal to the profits his business has, and leave it at that. Maybe throw him a bone once in a while with people in the town his business is based out of giving him and the party slightly special treatment if his business is successful, and concentrate on running the game you want to run.
If all he is interested in is the gold gain this might work out wonderfully, though if he is interested in the social and roleplaying aspects he may be a little disappointed. Still, you're running the game and if you won't have fun running a game where characters have political and social aspirations then tell him. It's not worth running a game you won't enjoy at all just to make a couple of the players happy.
Well, I had a talk with the player in question and he admitted it was a combination of the gold and role playing.
I'm not sure what to do. But he didn't like the sound of his profits falling like a rock when I offered the Profession check as a neutral ground and I see his point, merely going from some modified prices in the core book he's making 13.000 gold a month and with the profession check he'll be lucky to make 50gp in a month.
So he is now trying to make an entire trade system.... Not sure what to say really. I like his spirit but I just wish he'd was using the energy to kill goblins or save damsels in distress :P
Ok, 13,000gp a month is too much for him to get in profits, running a business is much more complicated than craft at half price or 1/3 price then sell at full. He has to have buyers, worry about undercutting, taxes, paying workers, warehouses, and so on. Keeping track of all of that would be ridiculously complicated, so if he wants to run a business tell him to check out the DMG II from 3.5e.
It has rules for running a business or a guild, and if he does much of that kind of stuff on his own in down time between sessions, maybe talking by e-mail with you when he needs a roll or DM input, you could both get what you want. He could spend the face to face time doing the type of adventures you want to run while you just need to spend a few minutes out of game answering an email so he gets to run his business too.
Bah, I know there's rules for running a business somewhere. Maybe it's in the Gamemasters Guide?
Oh nope, it's in the DMG II from 3.5.
See if you can scrounge those up, and use those.
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I'm not sure what to do. But he didn't like the sound of his profits falling like a rock when I offered the Profession check as a neutral ground and I see his point, merely going from some modified prices in the core book he's making 13.000 gold a month and with the profession check he'll be lucky to make 50gp in a month.
Maybe point out to him that 50gp a month in personal profit is a small fortune for most non-adventurers; merchants and other non-adventuring types don't make nearly as much coin as those who put their lives on the line to fight monsters and other dangers.
If he wants to run a trading empire, he needs to recognize that 50gp a month in such a field equates to a sizable amount. Additionally, at level 8 he should be able to increase this considerably; if he truly wants to go this route, he needs to put his traits and abilities where his mouth is. He should take all the ranks he can in Profession. He should take feats that further boost said bonus. He can turn to spellcasters to provide effects that further bolster his checks. True, he won't make close to the prior sum of 13,000gp a month, but he'll still be receiving what equates to a princely sum to one in the trading business.
If he went this route to enhance his funds, he did the wrong thing; the head of a prosperous trading network may be wealthy beyond measure, but his direct, personal wealth shouldn't be anywhere near that of an accomplished and successful adventurer.
I am very happy about my players and I am happy that they want to involve themselves in the game world. I don't mind that they want to become movers and shakers. They ARE the heroes of my tale and if thats they way they want to go then it's fine by me.
My problems is this:
I try to deliver quality stories, adventures and in general a good time playing at my table... I can't do that if I don't understand what I'm doing. I was never good at math and I simply can't keep all the numbers he's using in my head. Which means gold is starting to loose it's value in our game. I don't use greed as a factor for my players but gold sort of need to have a meaning so it's not like my last adventure "we failed to rescue the bishop of the church, he died a horrible death at the hands of the rebels... Lets spend 15000gp to build him a grave and put the church back on our good side. After all it's only a months pay...."
Hope I'm not coming over as a bad GM but I really am lost on how to make both my players happy and make me able to deliver a quality story.
Nah, you don't sound like a bad DM or anything, just looking for something different than your player in this specific thing. And yeah, 15,000gp for a month's pay is crazy, no business a PC runs should be that much. The DMG II rules might be something y'all should look into as a good compromise. There's an initial investment, then there is a monthly profit check based on a number of modifiers. It'll give the player some micromanaging ability, while cutting down on the math involved for both sides and preventing crazy 15,000gp profits. Plus there are ways to tie businesses into adventuring if you ever want to explore that.
Not really a comment pertaining to the original post but if you do need rules for running a caravan, have a look at the Jade Regent Player's Guide (it is free). It has a system to run a caravan that you might find useful if you haven't seen it already.
Link to it here
There is actually already a mechanical way to deal with this--use the feat Master of the Ledger (Taldor: Echoes of Glory) and build from there. If you don't have the book, you can find the feat at the Archives of Nethys as Open Game Content. There is also the Profits of Kalistrade that might be a feat for the character type (plus a black market feat if wares get illicit).
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this might help, i bring this up a lot but...if it aint broke, pants it.
find a download of dragon issue 125.
Gives math, and calculations based on population how much gold can be earned, gives them some math and mechanics to monkey around with, keeps the gold reasonable. Lets them have fun, not a ton of reading, some nice tables and percentages, again short read, keeps them active and busy.
and off topic, sorry if i get beaten, there was a good system in warhammer fantasy roleplay. I think in their armory guide.
best part was if you were not there running it, it would go to hell.
tell them to do what they want, but adventure first, and its begins to run down.
otherwise go for 125 dice, percentage, based on the amount of people.
blah blah blah
My problems is this:
I try to deliver quality stories, adventures and in general a good time playing at my table... I can't do that if I don't understand what I'm doing. I was never good at math...
What you have to do is find a way to make him happy with getting enough gold to not break the game. In Pathfinder like life money buys better weapons and defenses and lets you defeat foes you might otherwise not be able to. If he gets too much gold, like 13,000 a month, he'll be able to get enough powerful gear for himself and close friends to destroy things that should be a hard fight with ease, and ignore anything less. To tell a good story there needs to be some conflict. And since I assume your conflict depends on there being someone who might be able to oppose them you can't just keep letting him have that much.
Just tell him that you tried those rules, they didn't work very well, and you are going to stick to the core. Lay out the ways he can he his profession score up, maybe let him rebuild the character to do so, and give him a +2 circumstance bonus for good role play. Point out this all out to him and remind him that it's the real world equivalent of about $300,000 USD over and above what he would make from being an adventurer.
Does he have a merchant's license? An office? How much is he paying in taxes? How do the locals view their young Warren Buffet hero? Are they being generous, promoting charity and tithing (each easily 10% of their total profit)? Do his suppliers and landlord know he's doing so well? Because if they do, his costs will start creeping up. Are there litigious competitors around with competent lawyers? Outlaws on trade routes? Peasant militants? Manipulative aristocrats who might try to tank him just for giggles? Con artists? Gold diggers? An evil wizard who needs a new pair of shoes?
They could find themselves in trouble with the law, offending local peasants and nobility, and nosing slowly toward Lawful Evil if they're being greedy (especially if they start having to defend themselves against innocent hungry people).
Start raising their overhead with legal fees, lawsuits, taxes, rent, supply costs, charity, tithes, theft, hazard pay, blackmail, etc. I know you said you don't want to start playing this game, but there is some serious potential here for lots of adventure hooks.