For those of you that don't know, the Jian is a Chinese long sword, or the Tai Chi sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable. And, in all the many eastern weapons they included, they didn't include a big one. Was this an oversight, was this just done on purpose for some reason? I'm a bit disappointed in that fact. Especially since they included obscure weapons like the Urumi.
The Urumi has been around since Golarion was a setting.
No Joke, it's been printed in the original Golarion Setting Book, as well as the Adventurer's Armory.
And I guess my follow up question would be: What distinct properties and tactics make it so you cannot just re-skin the Longsword, Rapier, or Short Sword for fill in for this capacity?
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The Jian is almost identical to European longswords. Maybe they ran out of ways to justify different stats for exotic versions of perfectly mundane martial weapons.
I kinda like the Katana as it is, same with the other weapons, the Jian is basically a longsword (I like it that way), which is still pretty good all things told.
Well, the Urumi being an obscure weapon in real life is what I was getting at. It's cool, and I'm certainly not objecting to it's exclusion. Gotta love Indian whip swords.
And the Jian is nothing like the European longsword. It's lighter and thinner.
And I think it would have the 18-20 crit range, Slashing damage, and be a monk weapon. In a lot of ways, yes, I'd say it is like a rapier, but compared to some weapons they've included, I think it's different enough to warrant stats..
And, this wouldn't be the first redundant weapon they've included. Like a Bo Staff. Seriously, "Bo" literally translates to "staff".
am i the only person a little upset that most of the new weapons are eastern based, i dont have a problem with them adding those weapons but the other weapons listed in Ultimate Combat seem subpar like all the bronze age weapons and stone age weapons?
I was realy hoping to see some new interesting weapons introduced in this book.
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The Jian is almost identical to European longswords. Maybe they ran out of ways to justify different stats for exotic versions of perfectly mundane martial weapons.
The european longsword is much longer heavier than a fantasy longsword. The closest weapon in Pathfinder to a longsword would be a bastard sword.
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am i the only person a little upset that most of the new weapons are eastern based, i dont have a problem with them adding those weapons but the other weapons listed in Ultimate Combat seem subpar like all the bronze age weapons and stone age weapons?
I was realy hoping to see some new interesting weapons introduced in this book.
Like what? Most of the rest of the world didn't make that many decent weapons to begin with. Africa would be one of the other places something decent was made and most of those weapons have already been covered.
am i the only person a little upset that most of the new weapons are eastern based, i dont have a problem with them adding those weapons but the other weapons listed in Ultimate Combat seem subpar like all the bronze age weapons and stone age weapons?
I was realy hoping to see some new interesting weapons introduced in this book.
What do you call that whole slew of Gladiator weapons then?
i cant think of any off the top of my head but just beacuse i cant think of any right now doesnt mean there arent any that could have been made.
And the Jian is nothing like the European longsword. It's lighter and thinner.
Short sword, then ;)
And I think it would have the 18-20 crit range, Slashing damage, and be a monk weapon. In a lot of ways, yes, I'd say it is like a rapier, but compared to some weapons they've included, I think it's different enough to warrant stats..
There's only so much you can do with juggling stats, really. Personally, I'd say it's not different enough to justify not getting 1d8 19-20/x2 (long straight blade, double edge), but if you want to treat it as a rapier or scimitar, meh. Personally, I thought the weapons inflation (new toys every now and then) was a dumb idea from the start.
I'm not cool with equating "martial arts weapon" with "monk weapon", though, or we'd have to include half the equipment section. I guess it can work out if it's a monk archetype, though.
I'd say scimitar for one simple reason, it allows Dervish Dance and that is the most close thing in PF to Wudang Style - it's usually one handed (except for Dan Jian - just allow the sheath to work like a shield for that) and used by guys without armor.
Basically: While the Dao is a sword for common soldiers, Jians are basically monk weapons. Give them to weapon masters or something like that and remember that it's about style
i think is issues is the jian is a finesse weapon and longsword is not.
Basically: While the Dao is a sword for common soldiers, Jians are basically monk weapons. Give them to weapon masters or something like that and remember that it's about style
I thought they were basically officer weapons, but was there anything codifying who could or should carry them?
i think is issues is the jian is a finesse weapon and longsword is not.
Well, if we are going to find closest fits, wouldn't the Aldori dueling sword work?
For those of you that don't know, the Jian is a Chinese long sword, or the Tai Chi sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable. And, in all the many eastern weapons they included, they didn't include a big one. Was this an oversight, was this just done on purpose for some reason? I'm a bit disappointed in that fact. Especially since they included obscure weapons like the Urumi.
may i suggest using a rapier?
i think is issues is the jian is a finesse weapon and longsword is not.Well, if we are going to find closest fits, wouldn't the Aldori dueling sword work?
I won't use the dueling sword, cause it is an exotic weapon and the jian was a popular weapon. But ignoring the exotic feat thing, the stats are ok.
the Jian is a Chinese long sword, or the Tai Chi sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable.may i suggest using a rapier?
I agree, the rapier would work for it. I'd change the type to slashing instead of piercing, and allow it to be used two-handed, but you cannot use Weapon Finesse when two-handed, except if you provide a feat for it (Exotic Weapon Proficiency?). The jian is about one feet shorter than the rapier.
The two-handed jian is another tale... I'd give it Weapon Finesse when two handed, but not when one handed, except with a feat (Exotic Weapon Proficiency?), the stats of the estoc,, changing its type to slashing, but lower its cost.
The jian is a double-edged straight sword used during the last 2,500 years in China.
The weight of an average sword of 70-centimetre (28-inch) blade-length would be in a range of approximately 700 to 900 grams (1.5 to 2 pounds).
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a jian in two hands, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 20 gp
Dmg(S): 1d4
Dmg(M): 1d6
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 1.5 lb.
There are larger two-handed versions of the jian used for training by many styles of Chinese martial arts. Two-handed jian of up to 1.6 meters (63 inches) in length, known as shuangshou jian, existed but were not as common as the one-handed version.
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a two-handed jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a two-handed jian in one hand, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can. If jians are not common in the setting, then the two-handed jian becomes an exotic weapon, at DM's discretion.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 40 gp
Dmg(S): 2d3
Dmg(M): 2d4
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 3 lb.
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The Jian is almost identical to European longswords. Maybe they ran out of ways to justify different stats for exotic versions of perfectly mundane martial weapons.The european longsword is much longer heavier than a fantasy longsword. The closest weapon in Pathfinder to a longsword would be a bastard sword.
Just saying, the average European longsword was about 2 1/2-4 lbs. Aside from the obvious strength training issues, real life swords are objectively not as heavy as fantasy makes them out to be. I do agree that a real life longsword is much closer to PF's bastard sword, though.
I'm proposing the stats of the jian and the two-handed jian in this thread.
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The Jian is almost identical to European longswords. Maybe they ran out of ways to justify different stats for exotic versions of perfectly mundane martial weapons.The european longsword is much longer heavier than a fantasy longsword. The closest weapon in Pathfinder to a longsword would be a bastard sword.
This has always driven me insane about the weapons tables in 3.X games. Every time I see "longswords" and "bastard swords" listed as separate weapons, I get a little irrationally annoyed. Next thing you know we'll see a "Hand and a half" sword.
That was 2nd edition.
The jian is a one-hander, so it should either have the same restriction as a rapier, or be defined as a light weapon. There is no weapon the list that easily translates into a jian, which is a light or one-handed weapon that can slash or piece, and does not two-hand.
Same deal with the Renaissance broadsword.
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No jian?
How did I guess that was coming?
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Look at that I actually posted the wrong link.
What I meant is... Create your own Jian! Using THIS!
;)