Proposing the jian.
The Jian is the chinese sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable. You don't get the most of a jian by the use of strength but dexterity.
The jian is a double-edged straight sword used during the last 2,500 years in China.
The weight of an average sword of 70-centimetre (28-inch) blade-length would be in a range of approximately 700 to 900 grams (1.5 to 2 pounds).
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a jian in two hands, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 20 gp
Dmg(S): 1d4
Dmg(M): 1d6
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 1.5~2 lb.
There are larger two-handed versions of the jian used for training by many styles of Chinese martial arts.
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a two-handed jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a two-handed jian in one hand, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can. If jians are not common in the setting, then the two-handed jian becomes an exotic weapon, at DM's discretion.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 40 gp
Dmg(S): 2d3
Dmg(M): 2d4
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 2~2.5 lb.
Pathfinder in general vastly overestimates the weapon weights, or assumes a really heavy wooden scabbard.
28 inches and 2 pounds is pretty standard for a shortsword
Proposing the jian.
Looks like a solution in search of a problem. There's already a weapon with nearly identical stats called a "rapier."
Similarly, the two-handed jian duplicates the estoc.
Then again, "kama" is the Japanese word for "sickle," and yet Pathfinder presents them as two entirely different weapons, one of which is Exotic, and the other of which is Simple.
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Then again, "kama" is the Japanese word for "sickle," and yet Pathfinder presents them as two entirely different weapons, one of which is Exotic, and the other of which is Simple.
Both of which are farm tools, and should likely be improvised weapons. But that's another issue.
Proposing the jian.Looks like a solution in search of a problem. There's already a weapon with nearly identical stats called a "rapier." Similarly, the two-handed jian duplicates the estoc.
Well, i have to admit i took a look of both rapier and stoc when proposing the jian. But the differences of them are: rapier/stoc are piercing, but jians are slashing; rapier cannot be used two handed, jian can; stoc is always a finesse weapon, while the two-handed jian in one hand is not.
Looks like a solution in search of a problem. There's already a weapon with nearly identical stats called a "rapier." Similarly, the two-handed jian duplicates the estoc.You mean scimitar and falchion. Rapiers and estocs do piercing damage.
That's true Atarlost, the rapier and stocs are piercing weapons, jians are more of the slashing type.
But i disagree on the scimitar and falchion being replacements of the jian, because they're not finesse weapons, jians are.
I would propose a couple of weapon qualities to add to it. The jian often has a long, colored tassel attached to the pommel. Some believe that the tassel was originally designed to act as a distraction to the opponent, but in modern times, it serves to make jian demonstrations really cool to look at.
In the spirit of this, I'd add the Performance quality to the weapon, as well as give a +2 to Bluff checks when using the weapon to Feint in combat.
There is the Distracting property in the game already that adds +2 to feint.Cool, then use that. :P
Nice one! So i'd place that as a note. I like that distraction thing. So i'd add it and the Performance (dance?) thing too.
I think i should add the monk type, as they're used for taijiquan; but the monk should purchase proficiency with them.
Update:
The Jian is the chinese sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable. You don't get the most of a jian by the use of strength but dexterity.
The jian is a double-edged straight sword used during the last 2,500 years in China.
The weight of an average sword of 70-centimetre (28-inch) blade-length would be in a range of approximately 700 to 900 grams (1.5 to 2 pounds).
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
By adding a properly made colored tassel to its pommel the weapon gains the distracting and performance qualities.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a jian in two hands, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 20 gp
Dmg(S): 1d4
Dmg(M): 1d6
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 1.5~2 lb.
Special: Monk, Performance*, Distracting*.
There are larger two-handed versions of the jian used for training by many styles of Chinese martial arts.
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a two-handed jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
By adding a properly made colored tassel to its pommel the weapon gains the distracting and performance qualities.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a two-handed jian in one hand, but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (jian, two-handed-jian), you can. If jians are not common in the setting, then the two-handed jian becomes an exotic weapon, at DM's discretion.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 40 gp
Dmg(S): 2d3
Dmg(M): 2d4
Critical: 18–20/×2
Type: Slashing
Weight: 2~3 lb.
Special: Monk, Performance*, Distracting*.
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As someone who has traditional training with the jin/gim/jian, I'm glad to see someone has statted it out. However, the sword is meant for both slashing and piercing. Precise cuts and stabs.
Much like the European rapier, the jian was considered a sophisticated civilian's weapon, not a war implement. Just a bit of history there :)
As someone who has traditional training with the jin/gim/jian, I'm glad to see someone has statted it out. However, the sword is meant for both slashing and piercing. Precise cuts and stabs.
Much like the European rapier, the jian was considered a sophisticated civilian's weapon, not a war implement. Just a bit of history there :)
Thanks for the information!
Then i'll add piercing to its type.
Being a sophisticated weapon makes me think it is an exotic weapon, then... or not?
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Monk weapons can only have 19-20/2x, they can't have 18-20/2x. It's to check the critical fishing abilities of Flurry, as 18-20/2x is the best range out there.
So you need to bring the power down on both.
Furthermore, Slashing weapons tend to be weaker in terms of damage dice than the rest. Tone it down to 1d4 and 1d8. It's be balanced.
Basically, a character could have a 1d8 Katana with 18-20/2x, a 2d4 Estoc with 18-20/2x that's finessable (but piercing), a 1d10 Elven Curved Blade with the same critical that's also finessable but two handed...
Or the Jian that deals 1d8, has 19-20/2x, but is finessable and Monk.
And then it's competitive.
Monk weapons can only have 19-20/2x, they can't have 18-20/2x. It's to check the critical fishing abilities of Flurry, as 18-20/2x is the best range out there.
So you need to bring the power down on both.
I'm not fully agreeing on it, because the Flurry just resembles the TWF, and a fighter with two weapons with those critical ranges can also fish critical hits.
Furthermore, Slashing weapons tend to be weaker in terms of damage dice than the rest. Tone it down to 1d4 and 1d8. It's be balanced.
Basically, a character could have a 1d8 Katana with 18-20/2x, a 2d4 Estoc with 18-20/2x that's finessable (but piercing), a 1d10 Elven Curved Blade with the same critical that's also finessable but two handed...
Or the Jian that deals 1d8, has 19-20/2x, but is finessable and Monk.
And then it's competitive.
Well, about the damage i think you are meaning 1d8 for the two-handed jian, cause the jian already was stated as just 1d6.
I'll consider the critical range, i like the one i used, but i also like the one you said. The 18-20 range was bothering me cause i understand it on the rapier, but cannot explain it properly on the jian. Is a damage of 1d6(S)/1d8(M) ok for the two-handed jian?
TWF is not the same on a Fighter, because the Fighter needs the suboptimal investment in Feats while the Monk doesn't.
I beg you to note how no monk weapon has an 18-20 or 20/4x range, and something like the Temple Sword is worse than a Longsword, just because it's a monk weapon.
As someone who has traditional training with the jin/gim/jian, I'm glad to see someone has statted it out. However, the sword is meant for both slashing and piercing. Precise cuts and stabs.
Much like the European rapier, the jian was considered a sophisticated civilian's weapon, not a war implement. Just a bit of history there :)
Thanks for the information!
Then i'll add piercing to its type.
Being a sophisticated weapon makes me think it is an exotic weapon, then... or not?
It was the most difficult and complicated weapon I ever learned. I would indeed count it as exotic.
TWF is not the same on a Fighter, because the Fighter needs the suboptimal investment in Feats while the Monk doesn't.
I beg you to note how no monk weapon has an 18-20 or 20/4x range, and something like the Temple Sword is worse than a Longsword, just because it's a monk weapon.
It is not really suboptimal. Fighters get a lot of feats, more than any other class and TWF allows the fighter to use any weapon while monks can use just the monk weapons in a flurry.
But, i see other reason for reducing its range and balance it the way you say: The monk can use some of her class abilities with those weapons even in a flurry... so i'll reduce that critical range.
Maybe a masterwork, specially crafted jian would get those bonuses, but not the commonly found in every eastern town.
It was the most difficult and complicated weapon I ever learned. I would indeed count it as exotic.
Yes, i'll make it exotic. Also, despite being a monk weapon, the monk must spend a feat to gain proficiency with it, it is not automatic, reflecting the fact that she must train with a jian before being proficient with it.
I made some adjustments to this weapon. First i reduced the critical range, then i removed the parts requiring the exotic proficiency feat for the one handed jian.
The Jian is the chinese sword. It is thin, light, and very maneuverable. You don't get the most of a jian by the use of strength but dexterity.
The jian is a double-edged straight sword used during the last 2,500 years in China.
The weight of an average sword of 70-centimetre (28-inch) blade-length would be in a range of approximately 700 to 900 grams (1.5 to 2 pounds).
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
By adding a properly made colored tassel to its pommel the weapon gains the distracting and performance qualities.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a jian in two hands.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse.
Cost: 20 gp
Dmg(S): 1d4
Dmg(M): 1d6
Critical: 19–20/×2
Type: Slashing or Piercing
Weight: 2 lb.
Special: Monk, Performance*, Distracting*.
There are larger two-handed versions of the jian used for training by many styles of Chinese martial arts.
This is a rare jian.
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a two-handed jian sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon.
By adding a properly made colored tassel to its pommel the weapon gains the distracting and performance qualities.
Drawback: You can't benefit of the use the Weapon Finesse feat with a two-handed jian in one hand, except by aquiring the Exoting Weapon Proficiency (Two-handed jian as one-handed jian) feat at GM discretion. If jians are not common in the setting, then the two-handed jian may be an exotic weapon, at GM discretion.
Weapon Feature(s): Finesse
Cost: 50 gp
Dmg(S): 1d6
Dmg(M): 1d8
Critical: 19–20/×2
Type: Slashing or Piercing
Weight: 3~4 lb.
Special: Monk, Performance*, Distracting*.
As someone who has traditional training with the jin/gim/jian, I'm glad to see someone has statted it out. However, the sword is meant for both slashing and piercing. Precise cuts and stabs.
Much like the European rapier, the jian was considered a sophisticated civilian's weapon, not a war implement. Just a bit of history there :)
Arcanemuses, is the Jian like the rapier in the sense you cannot use it with two hands? Or i'm ok stating it as losing the finesse property if used two-handed?