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For those not at Gen Con they where offering the chance at prizes to everyone playing/GMing PFS. A few of the prizes included chronicle sheets with a boon that allows you to play a specific non core race.
I got a Tengu and Ifrit, another included a Tiefling, unsure if there where others.
My guess is that they are prepping down the line for Alternate Race, but this is a nice head start on that.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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For those not at Gen Con they where offering the chance at prizes to everyone playing/GMing PFS. A few of the prizes included chronicle sheets with a boon that allows you to play a specific non core race.
I got a Tengu and Ifrit, another included a Tiefling, unsure if there where others.
My guess is that they are prepping down the line for Alternate Race, but this is a nice head start on that.
Ugh.
I will always have an issue with boons and rewards like this that aren't available in any other way than to spend hundreds of dollars attending a convention that not everyone can attend. It smacks of elitism; if you're not part of the right "clique" you cannot play with the fun toys.
I don't look forward to the PR campaign that I will have to engage in to keep people from being upset at this in my store.
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For those not at Gen Con they where offering the chance at prizes to everyone playing/GMing PFS. A few of the prizes included chronicle sheets with a boon that allows you to play a specific non core race.
I got a Tengu and Ifrit, another included a Tiefling, unsure if there where others.
My guess is that they are prepping down the line for Alternate Race, but this is a nice head start on that.
Ugh.
I will always have an issue with boons and rewards like this that aren't available in any other way than to spend hundreds of dollars attending a convention that not everyone can attend. It smacks of elitism; if you're not part of the right "clique" you cannot play with the fun toys.
I don't look forward to the PR campaign that I will have to engage in to keep people from being upset at this in my store.
I'm actually inclined to agree with you. I don't know so much about the elitism but the fact that fun little goodies like that are available ONLY by attending a Con then those that don't have the time or can't afford to go miss out. There really should be something, such as an event day, that any store can hold so as to allow people unable to attend such events as GenCon or Paizo Con, the chance to get "exclusive" rewards and such. It's not just rewards though, there are also events, mods, and other such things that people without the means or schedule to go don't get to participate. It leaves a lot of people out. I know life isn't fair but giving the chance for others to earn such a prize or play in a special event would be nice.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm actually inclined to agree with you. I don't know so much about the elitism but the fact that fun little goodies like that are available ONLY by attending a Con then those that don't have the time or can't afford to go miss out. There really should be something, such as an event day, that any store can hold so as to allow people unable to attend such events as GenCon or Paizo Con, the chance to get "exclusive" rewards and such. It's not just rewards though, there are also events, mods, and other such things that people without the means or schedule to go don't get to participate. It leaves a lot of people out. I know life isn't fair but giving the chance for others to earn such a prize or play in a special event would be nice.
So far everything that has been done by Pathfinder Society at conventions has been available to any coordinator. The Midnight Mauler can be run by a 5-star GM or Venture Captain anywhere he wants to run it (JP Chapleau has run it at my store three times now, and will do so again, if I ask him to). The PFS Special Year of the Shadow Lodge that was run first run at GenCon last year is available to any coordinator that asks permission and can put together three tables of players (12 players and 3 GMs). We ran it at my store in September last year for 6 tables and had more clamoring for it, so ran it again at Ghengis Con in February.
Up until these boons, everyone has had ample opportunity to play with the cool toys (and kids).
Now, I could be wrong: it's possible that these will be made available via some sort of special event much like the two I listed above. I certainly hope so. If not, the "elitism" comes from comments like this:
For those not at Gen Con they where offering the chance at prizes to everyone playing/GMing PFS.
I'm glad he got to get this cool reward. I wish he didn't feel the need to crow about it (and, yes, the pun is intentional; I don't actually think you feel "elitist," Dragnmoon - it's just that your quote is easily misinterpreted).
EDIT - I said "stores" and meant "anyone" - just clarifying.
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Keep in mind that it's highly likely that once the ARG is published, everyone will have access to any of the races that are being offered at Gen Con. This isn't really an exclusive, as much as early access.
Also for what it's worth, there was only about a 1-2% chance of getting a chronicle with access to the races. There were other chronicles and rewards being offered including free products and boons that gave an extra trait, immunity to one disease/poison/curse of your choice, a +1 bonus on attacks/checks vs. Devils, same for Demons, and a few other options.
Deep down I don't like the expansion of races into PFS, but I know it's coming and accept it and I really don't think that a few "exclusives" at Gen Con are a sure sign of elitism on Paizo's part.
edit: Nice alias Dave... (?)
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Keep in mind that it's highly likely that once the ARG is published, everyone will have access to any of the races that are being offered at Gen Con. This isn't really an exclusive, as much as early access.
Where are the rules for PCs of these races? The ARG won't be out for eight months and I haven't hseen anything about a playtest.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Where are the rules for PCs of these races? The ARG won't be out for eight months and I haven't hseen anything about a playtest.
We're insructed to use the rules for those races from the Bestiary or Bestiary II.
So far, I've seen: Aasimar, Tiefling, Tengu, Ifrit, Oread, (I presume the other two elemental races) and Dhampyr. I'm curious what other races were available.
(I admit, I was taken aback on Friday when a fellow -- a great player, who knows what he's doing -- sat down at my table with an aasimar PC.)
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I was very leary about adding races and expressed as such among the Venture Captains early this year. However, I my impression has changed. I had five or six players throughout the weekend that played these alternate races and the games still went off without a hitch. There were some excellent roleplaying opportunities that arose in game from NPCs getting to meet a particular race for the first time and for the player's to make a good first showing through their characters.
Since Paizo has put resources into producing the Advanced Race Guide, I suspect that several of the different races are going to be open to all to play.
If Gencon was the only chance that a player had to be able to make a character of a unique race, I would be very much opposed to it. However, as others have mentioned, I very much think this is just a sneak preview. I can live with the races that were chosen and was very happy to see no drow, gnolls, or other "evil" races.
I also liked the fact that not everyone at Gencon received this opportunity so it did make it a bit more special. After each game, you received a wooden token that was exchanged for 3 keys (am I the only one who kept one as a souvenir?). It took my 18 keys before I opened the lock and treasure box. Once opened, you rolled a 20 sided-dice and followed the chart posted. There were 15 different boons to be had. Eight of these were alternate races. In the treasure box, there were also chances to win flip mats, map packs, novels, etc... I won a map pack. If you rolled a 20 and then confirmed, you got to select from a much better list of prizes. Some of them included naming a future Venture Captain in a PFS scenario, naming an NPC in a future scenario, and a signed copy of many of the rules books among others.
I think the idea was well thought out and everyone at the con had a fantastic time with it as far as I can tell (except the one guy who had 30 some keys and didn't open the lock once :( ).
As I said earlier, if the races were a Gencon only and no one else had a chance to ever play the alternate races, I would be very much against it. However, I don't see a problem with allowing someone who did spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend Gencon, to get the opportunity to play a new race six months before everyone else.
That's just my 2 coppers.
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Personally, I think this is the perfect way to bring some small changes into Org Play. For those that have the chance to go to a con, whether you spend $1000 or a $100, this is your chance for a bonus. Not everyone will have a tiefling...not everyone will have a sylph...etc. But there will be some for those that were at GenCon, adding a bit of flavor splash to the world of PFS from a special event.
My concern is that with the ARG we could have a twofold issue: that these boons will mean nothing and that the world of PFS will get flooded with new races, which would be bad. Boons that give a few people the right to do it? Great. A whole new set of eight races? Not as great idea.
Boons should be a little exclusive, that's the point of them.
On the same note, I loved the whole token/key/prize idea. Seemed like a great, realtively inexpensive but fun idea on Paizo's behalf to give a little back to the community of gamers that has helped get them to where they are.
Thanks for another great GenCon!
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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So far, I've seen: Aasimar, Tiefling, Tengu, Ifrit, Oread, (I presume the other two elemental races) and Dhampyr. I'm curious what other races were available.I believe there were just the 8 you mentioned.
The other two elemental races are the Undine and Sylph.
EDIT: My edit got ninja'd by Mark, lol!
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Two others that I know of firsthand, the Undine and Sylph.So far, I've seen: Aasimar, Tiefling, Tengu, Ifrit, Oread, (I presume the other two elemental races) and Dhampyr. I'm curious what other races were available.I believe there were just the 8 you mentioned.
Right. Ifrit, Oread (and the other two Undine, Sylph), Aasimar, Tiefling, Tenug and Dhampir = 8 :)
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Well then, I was lucky enough to open the chest, and received the boon which grants permission to play a Tengu. They have a racial feature, "Swordtrained":
Pathfinder Bestiary[/i]]Swordtrained (Ex): Tengus are trained from birth in swordplay, and as a result are automatically proficient with sword-like weapons (including bastard swords, daggers, elven curve blades, falchions, greatswords, kukris, longswords, punching daggers, rapiers, scimitars, short swords, and two-bladed swords).
Two-bladed swords and elven curve blades are both exotic weapons, so is it safe to assume, that any exotic weapon that is sword-like would be acceptable? Or is this going to turn into another 'Heirloom Weapon' debacle?
IMHO, the tengu are here because of the increased Eastern culture flavor that will be appearing this year as a result of the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, and I'd like to keep such a PC flavor-appropriate – joining the Lantern Lodge delegation; possibly ninja, samurai, or monk; etc. – and proficiency with some of the eastern weapons introduced in Ultimate Combat would be nice...
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"Swordtrained":Pathfinder Bestiary[/i]]Swordtrained (Ex): Tengus are trained from birth in swordplay, and as a result are automatically proficient with sword-like weapons (including bastard swords, daggers, elven curve blades, falchions, greatswords, kukris, longswords, punching daggers, rapiers, scimitars, short swords, and two-bladed swords).Two-bladed swords and elven curve blades are both exotic weapons, so is it safe to assume, that any exotic weapon that is sword-like would be acceptable? Or is this going to turn into another 'Heirloom Weapon' debacle?
I understand Mike's reasoning, but honestly this is just a Core rules question. It seems to overlap the weapon groups:
Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, elven curve blade, falchion, greatsword, longsword, scimitar, scythe, and two-bladed sword.
Blades, Light: dagger, kama, kukri, rapier, sickle, starknife, and short sword.
which should be a reasonable way to move forward. The obviously non-sword things in the group are dropped, scythe, kama, sickle and starknife.
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As I sit here during my annual training in the military, my initial reaction was to be pissed and I thought 'elite' right away. Knowing I cant make GENCON until 2015 due to my military schedule.
This brought up many of the issues that some fans have posted here: Lack of money to travel, personal responsibilities and I thought it 'man would suck if its the only way you could play a non-standard race.'
But if paizo is going to implement this in PFS after the ARG comes out so be it.
Some players will have it a little early and others will just have to wait (myself included).
I can live with that.
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Honestly, why is it so wrong to give out con-exclusive SWAG to people attending conventions?
I'm an elitist because I happen to live within two hours drive of GenCon? I'm an elitist because I saved the money to pay for my transportation and lodging? I'm an elitist because I'm missing out on two days pay back at work since it's a new job and I haven't earned any vacation?
If the boon races come out in the ARG, what then? You will still have to pay for *that* book ($40 physical, likely $10 for the PDF) to actually use the race(s) without the boon chronicle, so is that going to be elitist too (because after all, my tengu was "free" but yours will cost at least $10...)?
Honestly, why is it so wrong to give out con-exclusive SWAG to people attending conventions?
If it resulted in having two tiers of characters, I wouldn't like it. But I haven't heard of anything that's so amazingly good so far.
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If the boon races come out in the ARG, what then? You will still have to pay for *that* book ($40 physical, likely $10 for the PDF) to actually use the race(s) without the boon chronicle, so is that going to be elitist too (because after all, my tengu was "free" but yours will cost at least $10...)?
The biggest problem I see is that I already have a 6th and a 7th level character and am scheduled to play the latter up to 12th level before ARG is released. So if I would really like to start a new character of one of the variant races, I can either stop playing until the ARG is released or I am dooming the variant race character to a painfully low level.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You will still have to pay for *that* book ($40 physical, likely $10 for the PDF) to actually use the race(s) without the boon chronicle, so is that going to be elitist too (because after all, my tengu was "free" but yours will cost at least $10...)?
Right now, using the boon chronicle requires the player bring copies of the relevant pages from the Bestiary or Bestiary II, as if it were an Additional Resource. (Note: this is a specific exception to the general rule tht the Bestiary is a core assumption and players don't need to bring that reference.) So, $40 or $10 now, as well.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The biggest problem I see is that I already have a 6th and a 7th level character and am scheduled to play the latter up to 12th level before ARG is released. So if I would really like to start a new character of one of the variant races, I can either stop playing until the ARG is released or I am dooming the variant race character to a painfully low level.
I don't understand. Why not continue to play your 6th-level character now, and start a new tiefling character when the ARG comes out? How do the boons interfere with your current character?
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Not everyone that went to Gen Con got these prizes.
I had 30 keys to try and unlock the chest.
I turned my coins in on a daily, and mostly a by slot basis. The lone exception was the coin I got from the Special, but when that was over they weren't doing the chest so I turned in that coin, and my morning slot coin at the same time.
I got, in order:
A permanent +2 perception bonus to any character
A Flip Mat (got the cathedral).
Gold worth 100 gold x the character's level I apply it to.
An immunity to my choice of a single curse, disease, or poison from pages 551 through 560 in the core rule book.
I really wanted a race, and it took until my 29th key to get it. If those last three keys had not opened the chest I would not have gotten a race. If I had not rolled one of 6 numbers on a 20 sided die, I would not have gotten a race when I did open the chest.
I would not have complained had I not gotten one.
And I think it is actually good marketing practice to have prizes at the large conventions, as it creates incentive to get people to said conventions.
If you don't have the money for the entire trip, volunteer to GM 8 slots and Paizo will pick up your hotel and badge tab. Then take a bus to Indianapolis for like $20 to $50 round trip. Your only expense then becomes food. If you can't save up $150 for a trip like this in the year between conventions, then perhaps you need to budget your money better.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Honestly, why is it so wrong to give out con-exclusive SWAG to people attending conventions?If it resulted in having two tiers of characters, I wouldn't like it. But I haven't heard of anything that's so amazingly good so far.
Agreed. Nothing about this is broken. I'm merely concerned with the perception of "have" vs "have not."
@ArVagor
Dictionary.com defines an elitist as "belonging to a select or favored group."
Seeing as you live close to GenCon and attended, you are part of a group that others are excluded from, merely by virtue of money/time/location. That makes you elitist. Are you a jerk? No. Doesn't keep you from being proud of having a cool reward, though.
As I said earlier, if the races were a Gencon only and no one else had a chance to ever play the alternate races, I would be very much against it. However, I don't see a problem with allowing someone who did spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend Gencon, to get the opportunity to play a new race six months before everyone else.
Good. So long as it will be available to everyone, I'll be happy with it. Makes my spin campaign significantly easier.
And for the record, I 100% agree with your statement about monsters. I'm exceedingly happy that no evil races were opened up by this. If they do get opened up, I'll be very sad.
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Dictionary.com defines an elitist as "belonging to a select or favored group."
Seeing as you live close to GenCon and attended, you are part of a group that others are excluded from, merely by virtue of money/time/location. That makes you elitist. Are you a jerk? No.
To be fair Drogon, the word elitist carries with it a negative connotation that is more than its literal definition. While he may literally be an elitist, actually calling him an elitist is unwarranted.
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If people feel that too much new races will cause issues. I think limiting the new races to boons is a decent way of making sure you don't get an overload of tables with only these new races.
You could limited it to conventions where you can get access to random ones like Paizo has already done. And then to make them avaiable to the general public...allow DM's one race boon of their choosing for each DM star they have earned.
The systeem already checks to see how many sessions are reported with you as DM and assigns stars to you, it shouldn't be a huge leap to link something to that which would allow you to download a race boon once.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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To be fair Drogon, the word elitist carries with it a negative connotation that is more than its literal definition. While he may literally be an elitist, actually calling him an elitist is unwarranted.
Point taken. I really was directing the "elitism" comment toward the administrators. So, I will retract all uses of the word and apologize for any offense.
Instead, I will simply point out that many people will find special boons available only in certain circumstances to be "unfair."
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If people feel that too much new races will cause issues. I think limiting the new races to boons is a decent way of making sure you don't get an overload of tables with only these new races.
You could limited it to conventions where you can get access to random ones like Paizo has already done. And then to make them avaiable to the general public...allow DM's one race boon of their choosing for each DM star they have earned.
The system already checks to see how many sessions are reported with you as DM and assigns stars to you, it shouldn't be a huge leap to link something to that which would allow you to download a race boon once.
Following in line with my new "unfair" stance:
Please don't do this. I'm willing to accept floods of tengu at PFS tables rather than see droves of people become disinterested in playing any PFS due to not being allowed to play with the cool toys that they see other people play with.
To be fair Drogon, the word elitist carries with it a negative connotation that is more than its literal definition. While he may literally be an elitist, actually calling him an elitist is unwarranted.Dictionary.com defines an elitist as "belonging to a select or favored group."
Seeing as you live close to GenCon and attended, you are part of a group that others are excluded from, merely by virtue of money/time/location. That makes you elitist. Are you a jerk? No.
Poppycock.
Either he is elitist, or he is not. To say that he is, but nobody is allowed to mention it is simply silly.
And thus we have started down the road to 4e LFR, where a adventuring party of drow can walk into the smallest village and nobody will even bat an eye.
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You could limited it to conventions where you can get access to random ones like Paizo has already done. And then to make them avaiable to the general public...allow DM's one race boon of their choosing for each DM star they have earned.
The systeem already checks to see how many sessions are reported with you as DM and assigns stars to you, it shouldn't be a huge leap to link something to that which would allow you to download a race boon once.
Here's the biggest problem with that idea as I see it -- such a method does not prevent the person downloading the boon from printing it off more than once, nor forwarding that PDF on to their friends, messageboards, etc. The chronicles handed out at the convention were actually signed by someone at Paizo (Hyrum? Josh? Can't be sure...). I suppose one could duplicate the signature with some effort, but if you're going to that much trouble that you're willing to commit forgery to play an alternate race, then you have other issues...
When do we get to play goblins? I am itching to play my chelixian goblin gunslinger and his shadow lodge magus brother.
I smell a couple of candidates for new pregens...
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Poppycock.
Either he is elitist, or he is not. To say that he is, but nobody is allowed to mention it is simply silly.
And thus we have started down the road to 4e LFR, where a adventuring party of drow can walk into the smallest village and nobody will even bat an eye.
It's no more silly than not allowing denizens of the boards to call each other any other inflammatory name. Just because it's literally correct doesn't mean that it's appropriate.
It's also no more silly than someone being worried about the spread of drow as a playable race (which they aren't and will never be) by someone who doesn't even play Pathfinder Society.
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I don't understand. Why not continue to play your 6th-level character now, and start a new tiefling character when the ARG comes out? How do the boons interfere with your current character?
It's not the boons, it's the lack of modules to play by the time the ARG is released, if I continue on my current play schedule. And my reading of the DM rules is that I could not give credit for modules that I run to a character that I can not create until next April.